Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Kavs8

Quote from the Guardian,

''Two of the passengers reportedly listed on board Malaysia Airlines MH370 – which disappeared Saturday – are not on the flight. Both say their passports were stolen.

Related Stories

Mother of Italian listed on Malaysia plane says passport stolen Reuters
Oil slicks found in hunt for missing Malaysia jet Associated Press
Vietnam spots oil slicks in hunt for missing jet Associated Press
Malaysian plane still missing; questions over false IDs Reuters
Vietnamese air force planes find oil slicks as search for missing jet continues The Week (RSS)
Italian Luigi Maraldi and Austrian Christian Kozel have confirmed that they were not on the flight. Both also reported their passports stolen.

Austria’s foreign ministry spokesman, Martin Weiss, told media outlets on Saturday that the Austrian citizen - without naming Kozel – was safely living in Austria and had his passport stolen two years ago during a visit to Thailand.

Mr. Maraldi has told media outlets that his passport was stolen a year ago. The Guardian reports that the Italian embassy in Bangkok, Thailand, told its reporter that Luigi Maraldi is an Italian national living in Phuket who was recently given a new passport but did not get on the flight.

The stolen passports may be indicative that the Boeing 777 was infiltrated by terrorists or criminals.''

BorneTobyWilde

Kavs8 wrote: »

Really want to be clear it is not fact the connection that is, its purely speculation to be confirmed - But to me in my own opinion now;

1) 3 passports stolen and used on the same flight
2) Similar aircraft targeted with toilet fires (Up to 5 toilet fires!) 3 weeks prior
3) The immediate cessation of air data at 35,000ft suggesting catastrophic event

I don't know but I was initially susceptible of terrorism, it looks to be a real contender now.

You would expect some sort of communication from pilot if there was a disturbance on board. Jet did not alter it's route so was in pilots control.
Could one smuggle a bomb on board an airline today?
It really is a mystery.
The stolen passports on same flight tell me it's very very common, or that is very very rare and simply no coincidence .

brandon_flowers

Kavs8 wrote: »

Really want to be clear it is not fact the connection that is, its purely speculation to be confirmed - But to me in my own opinion now;

1) 3 passports stolen and used on the same flight
2) Similar aircraft targeted with toilet fires (Up to 5 toilet fires!) 3 weeks prior
3) The immediate cessation of air data at 35,000ft suggesting catastrophic event

I don't know but I was initially susceptible of terrorism, it looks to be a real contender now.

FO was transitioning to 777 so every bit as likely as terrorism at this point. Pure speculation of course.

Edit: Remember the case of the six Irish passports being used by Mossad. It happens a lot more than one would think.

JONJO THE MISER

NiallSparky wrote: »

One of the passports was stolen 2 years ago, which would make it seem less likely that it was stolen for terrorist purposes.

Quiet the opposite in fact, terrorists can wait a long time before they strike.

BorneTobyWilde

Would a passport reported stolen not be useless once reported. Why was it still valid to fly with.

Growler!!!

So we're agreed then. It's a terrorist event.

Tigerandahalf

Are lost or stolen passports not cancelled and thus should flash up on a computerised system or simply not come up as being legit?

brandon_flowers

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Are lost or stolen passports not cancelled and thus should flash up on a computerised system or simply not come up as being legit?

My passport has been scanned once in the last 60 or so flights (in AMS) and before that it was thoroughly checked when I went to Perth for a week last April. I always make a point of remembering. So it is easy to slip through the net.

Kavs8

Just been pointed out to be, does anyone remember the 1993 WTC bomber who ran a trial run - bombing Philippine Airlines Flight 434 using fake identity?

He was - Ramzi Yousef

sopretty

brandon_flowers wrote: »

My passport has been scanned once in the last 60 or so flights (in AMS) and before that it was thoroughly checked when I went to Perth for a week last April. I always make a point of remembering. So it is easy to slip through the net.

Is the passport number not entered when you board a flight? Is there no system of alert for reported stolen passports?

Amirani

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Quiet the opposite in fact, terrorists can wait a long time before they strike.

Why quite the opposite? Why attempt to steal passports 2 years before the event? Increases the chances of expiry and it being invalidated. Any useful terrorist is going to try rob the passports quite soon before the event to minimise these risks.

Kavs8

sopretty wrote: »

Is the passport number not entered when you board a flight? Is there no system of alert for reported stolen passports?

Very good point, Ryanair cross check passport numbers when you check-in online to avoid fines for transporting passengers with fake/stolen passports!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

brandon_flowers

sopretty wrote: »

Is the passport number not entered when you board a flight? Is there no system of alert for reported stolen passports?

I can book a flight right now with MH from KUL to PEK without entering my passport details so unless my passport is scanned at KUL then MH will have no way of knowing I am using a stolen passport.

Security in Asia is not the same as Europe.

Thrill

Growler!!! wrote: »

So we're agreed then. It's a terrorist event.

The U.S. are running the entire manifest through its databases to check for terror links. Theres no evidence of any terrorism but they must investigate it anyway.

No-one knows what happened to the plane. All possibilities are being explored, not just terrorism alone.

Kavs8

Indeed, the sudden disappearance and lack of wreckage in a location where the water is shallow and the waters are busy with ships etc is very unsettling.

Lirange

Growler!!! wrote: »

So we're agreed then. It's a terrorist event.

Er no. Far from it.

Any evidence that points that way is circumstantial. But likewise there isn't much there to rule it out (yet) either. Early days though.

NiallSparky

NiallSparky wrote: »

Why quite the opposite? Why attempt to steal passports 2 years before the event? Increases the chances of expiry and it being invalidated. Any useful terrorist is going to try rob the passports quite soon before the event to minimise these risks.

Don't use the expired ones then. :P The theft of something being used in a crime right before the crime would make it more likely for the authorities to get a link.

Aaanyway, all conjecture and guessing at this stage.

Stinicker

Growler!!! wrote: »

So we're agreed then. It's a terrorist event.

This has terrorism written all over it; from my research into it;

Islamic terrorists last week massacred 29 people in Kunming Railway Station in Southern China. The Kunming railway attack was carried out by Muslim Uyghur Terrorists from Xinjiang Province in North West China. They are fighting the Han-Chinese in the Xinjiang conflict, These are Turkic Islamic terrorists who have closer ties to Central Asia and speak a common Turkic language similar to modern day Turkish.

6 Muslim Uyghur Terrorists in 2012 previously attempted to down a passenger aircraft within China. Tianjin Airlines Flight 7554. Passengers onboard the aircraft fought back and prevented them from detonating explosives and subsequently killed two of the terrorists during the mid-air struggle. The four failed terrorists were subsequently sentenced to death by the Chinese Authorities. The East Turkestan Independence Movement has links with Al Qaeda.

http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/12/three-chinese-plane-hijackers-sentenced-to-death/#.UxuLVoV9sxE
http://bnonews.com/urgent/10272/three-chinese-sentenced-to-death-over-plane-hijack-attempt/

I can see a link between the two confirmed stolen passports and a third possible stolen passport. 45 different Nationality's are visa exempt in China for 72 hours provided they are flying onto a third country afterwards. Holders of the stolen passports (which qualify for the 72 hour exemption) could in theory fly from KUL-PEK without much rigorous suspicion so long as they had an onward ticket to a 3rd country.

What I'd be checking if I was the investigators now was did these 2 or 3 people have onward travel booked or had they also managed to get visas from the PRC despite holding stolen passports?

I am very worried now that this may have been a terrorist attack due to these reasons. It appears there may have been security and immigration shortcomings in Kuala Lumpur Airport prior to this disaster.

Kavs8

had an onward ticket to a 3rd country.

The passengers using the stolen passports were sold tickets for the flight by China Southern Airlines according to the NYTimes.

sopretty

It's like some sort of Bermuda triangle equivalent to ships!

Tigerandahalf

From the Mirror live feed.

"A top aviation lawyer tonight claimed the lack of warnings from the Malaysia Airlines flight before it disappeared suggested a 'catastrophic failure'.

US-based legal expert Steve Marks represented relatives of the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009.

He said tonight his work on that disaster leads him to believe of a major catastrophe on the Malaysia Airlines flight.
...."

kelso00

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I departed KUL twice (Thailand and Europe) in Feb and my passport was swiped by emmigration on both occasions. I assume if it was invalid I'd be stopped

Tigerandahalf

This begs the question if there was a catastrophic event in mid-air, would the plane have broken up before hitting the water from either an explosion or the fuselage disintegrating.

Thrill

Kavs8 wrote: »

The passengers using the stolen passports were sold tickets for the flight by China Southern Airlines according to the NYTimes.

As callous as this might sound, those two guys have paid a heavy price for their crime of using those stolen passports.

lomb

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

From the Mirror live feed.

"A top aviation lawyer tonight claimed the lack of warnings from the Malaysia Airlines flight before it disappeared suggested a 'catastrophic failure'.

US-based legal expert Steve Marks represented relatives of the Air France crash in the Atlantic in 2009.

He said tonight his work on that disaster leads him to believe of a major catastrophe on the Malaysia Airlines flight.
...."

And he gets paid millions for that deduction? Vulchers the lot of them (media included)

Kavs8

lomb wrote: »

And he gets paid millions for that deduction? Vulchers the lot of them (media included)

Really don't know why the Mirror is being included in this thread so regularly, as I will say again they have nothing valuable to contribute then has already been discussed. :mad:

BorneTobyWilde

What are chances that plane is not at sea but down else where.

Stinicker

Kavs8 wrote: »

The passengers using the stolen passports were sold tickets for the flight by China Southern Airlines according to the NYTimes.

Yeah, I seen that, these would have been codeshare tickets. However if the two passengers with the stolen passports were traveling to China then they would have required a Visa to enter the PRC as Austrian and Italian passport holders. However if they were flying KUL-PEK and then stopping for 72 hours before flying onto a third destination they could have traveled visa free. You'd wonder if they had acquired Visas for China would the Chinese Embassy's who'd have had to process the visas not spotted that they were in fact stolen passports or would they have run any sort of checks.

Thrill

I know this is the aviation forum, where everyone is kinda clued into planes and such (and I'm not), but would I not be right in guessing that, in this day and age, you can't access the cockpit of the plane from the passenger area?

If not, is there any reason why this isn't implemented? I'd have thought it'd be a sensible thing to do (considering the fear of hijacked planes and what not?)

Thrill wrote: »

As callous as this might sound, those two guys have paid a heavy price for their crime of using those stolen passports.

That's a really strange comment.