Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

knucklehead6

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

This begs the question if there was a catastrophic event in mid-air, would the plane have broken up before hitting the water from either an explosion or the fuselage disintegrating.

Look at JAL123 I mentioned earlier. Or United232. Both of those aircraft suffered midair catastrophic events. Both resulted in high fatality crashes. Neither broke up before hitting the ground.

If the slicks are only 500m apart on the sea surface, then it suggests the plane was predominately in one piece before impact.

Kavs8

you can't access the cockpit of the plane from the passenger area?

Well you can't without the access code or visual identification via a camera in the cockpit (Airbus method) - As the recent Ethiopian hijacking shows, its very hard to gain access to the cockpit (Captain was locked out and tried to ram the door unsuccessfully).

lomb

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What are chances that plane is not at sea but down else where.

Zero I would say. In any kind of a heavy landing the ELT would go off and be picked up.

Snowc

pclancy wrote: »

Next comment like this will earn a permaban.

Not funny.

What a sick comment :mad: but also extremely bad moderation ,you delete the comment but then you quote it so everybody can still see it ?

Highflyer13

This story is totally baffling. It was understandable the length of time in took to find AF 447 with the huge area and dept of the water but MH370 s disappearance in such a busy shipping area of relatively shallow dept is bizarre. Also lack of updated information from the and Chinese and Malaysian governments is worrying.

I know it sounds totally crazy but could it be possible the plane has switched of the transponder and flown under the radar and landed somewhere extremely remote and is in terrorists hands? Extreme I know but I am totally baffled by it all. Not a sign of debris at the moment.

Kavs8

Look guys, first light in Kota Bharu is an hour from now, I would expect there to be developments throughout tonight.

Stinicker

Kavs8 wrote: »

Well you can't without the access code or visual identification via a camera in the cockpit (Airbus method) - As the recent Ethiopian hijacking shows, its very hard to gain access to the cockpit (Captain was locked out and tried to ram the door unsuccessfully).

If the pilots left the cockpit to use the lavatory or if the cabin-crew were delivering refreshments to the flight deck would be times when there could be a danger of a cockpit invasion as the door would have been opened.

I don't think terrorists made it as far as the cockpit and I'm afraid this was something similar to what happened Tianjin Airlines Flight 7554 except with a far worse outcome.

Highflyer13

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I know it sounds totally crazy but could it be possible the plane has switched of the transponder and flown under the radar and landed somewhere extremely remote and is in terrorists hands? Extreme I know but I am totally baffled by it all. Not a sign of debris at the moment.

I'd imagine if terrorists had it, they'd be making quite the song and dance about it by now, no?

Not much point in taking a plane full of people if you're going to keep it a secret?

Xenji

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imagine if terrorists had it, they'd be making quite the song and dance about it by now, no?

Not much point in taking a plane full of people if you're going to keep it a secret?

Unless they are planning on using the aircraft again.

Tigerandahalf

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I know it sounds totally crazy but could it be possible the plane has switched of the transponder and flown under the radar and landed somewhere extremely remote and is in terrorists hands? Extreme I know but I am totally baffled by it all. Not a sign of debris at the moment.

Unlikely as passengers would have texted relatives.

Stinicker

Stinicker wrote: »

If the pilots left the cockpit to use the lavatory or if the cabin-crew were delivering refreshments to the flight deck would be times when there could be a danger of a cockpit invasion as the door would have been opened

See, I don't know anything of aviation, but I'd have thought the cockpit (is it still even called that?) would be totally separate and the only reason you'd enter or exit would be an emergency situation.

I'd have assumed (wrongly, it'd seem) that it'd be equipped with a small toilet, fridge, TV, etc. so they (pilots) have everything they need to get them through their shift without any chance of anything coming or going?

Kavs8

Stinicker wrote: »

If the pilots left the cockpit to use the lavatory or if the cabin-crew were delivering refreshments to the flight deck would be times when there could be a danger of a cockpit invasion as the door would have been opened.

I don't think terrorists made it as far as the cockpit and I'm afraid this was something similar to what happened Tianjin Airlines Flight 7554 except with a far worse outcome.

Indeed, with regards cabin crew entering the cockpit for refreshments or flight crew going to the toilet - My friend works for easyJet and this is directly from there crew training manual;

Gaurding the Vault
A crew member will stand with both legs spread and arms extended to the bulkhead at any time the Flight Deck Door (FDD) is opened.

Got sent that awhile back when she was in training, but it shows you in Europe how tight we are with safety.

small toilet, fridge, TV,

TV not a chance haha! There'd be uproar, ''ATC: Ryanair 2TG, report your position'' - ''ATC: Ryanair 2TG'' - ''Ryanair 2TG: Sorry, just catching up on Scrubs, go ahead''

Thrill

Deleted User wrote: »

That's a really strange comment.

All I meant was that if they were law abiding guys they would be alive today.

I just read that someone decided not to take the flight because his father asked him not to. He wanted him to stay so they could spend some more time together. Some good news in what appears to be a terrible tragedy.

Spanish Eyes

Im beginning to think that a 100m container of liquids is nothing compared to false passports.

Even if there is no connection with this tragedy....WTF?

Mister Jingles

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I know it sounds totally crazy but could it be possible the plane has switched of the transponder and flown under the radar and landed somewhere extremely remote and is in terrorists hands? Extreme I know but I am totally baffled by it all. Not a sign of debris at the moment.

Someone asked me this earlier and told them it was very unlikely due to the size of the aircraft. Surely the likes of military radar would of picked it up even if it was for instance flying only a few hundred feet ?

Tigerandahalf

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Look at JAL123 I mentioned earlier. Or United232. Both of those aircraft suffered midair catastrophic events. Both resulted in high fatality crashes. Neither broke up before hitting the ground.

If the slicks are only 500m apart on the sea surface, then it suggests the plane was predominately in one piece before impact.

The oil slick is interesting. Would this be coming from bursted hydraulic lines leaking fuel?

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The oil slick is interesting. Would this be coming from bursted hydraulic lines leaking fuel?

The slicks found are most probably a combination of aviation fuel, engine oil and hydraulic fluid - And that's if it is the crash zone.

Hydraulic lines would carry Hydraulic fluid - They don't intertwine with other fuels on the aircraft.

Highflyer13

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd imagine if terrorists had it, they'd be making quite the song and dance about it by now, no?

Not much point in taking a plane full of people if you're going to keep it a secret?

Yes, for sure the if terrorists had it they would want as much publicity as possible for sure. However if this situation occured it would also be up to the Chinese and Malaysian governments and other countries involved to decide on how to proceed with the situation at hand. Deploying vessels in the gulf of Thailand may be a smokescreen. The Chinese especially may elect to deal with quietly it given the recent spate of terrorist attacks on their soil not to invoke any panic and give the terrorists more publicity.

All speculation though in a really bizarre situation and it is more than likely what I have mentioned isn't the case.

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

The slicks found are most probably a combination of aviation fuel, engine oil and hydraulic fluid - And that's if it is the crash zone.

Hydraulic lines would carry Hydraulic fluid - They don't intertwine with other fuels on the aircraft.

When they say there are two oil slicks could both of these be coming from the one source and just dispersed in tides to create two slicks. Or is it that two slicks represent more than one source of leakage. Is the 500m distance apart significant in terms of how a plane might have leakage?

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

When they say there are two oil slicks could both of these be coming from the one source and just dispersed in tides to create two slicks. Or is it that two slicks represent more than one source of leakage. Is the 500m distance apart significant in terms of how a plane might have leakage?

No because think of it like this - We'll go with the theorem that the plane hit the water intact - The aircraft would fully disintegrate on impact and all fluids (and usually light materials) will float on the surface - The ocean has currents so the oil will dissipate to from oil slicks and they will drift from each other in the current, its normal.

Thrill

Kavs8 wrote: »

The slicks found are most probably a combination of aviation fuel, engine oil and hydraulic fluid - And that's if it is the crash zone.

Could they not just collect a sample and test it to see if it is aviation fuel?

Kavs8

Thrill wrote: »

Could they not just collect a sample and test it to see if it is aviation fuel?

I believe the slicks were found just at sunset, so when the search resumes at 23:20 our time, it would be confirmed pretty quickly if its aviation fuel.

billie1b

Thrill wrote: »

Could they not just collect a sample and test it to see if it is aviation fuel?

The first ships were only arriving at the scene of the oil slicks within the last hour I think. They may collect samples, there are also reports saying that the slicks may be coming from a leaking platform a couple of klicks away. Won't know anything definite until daybreak I reckon

Paully D

RE: the terrorism angle.

Would the pilot not have communicated a disturbance?

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

No because think of it like this - We'll go with the theorem that the plane hit the water intact - The aircraft would fully disintegrate on impact and all fluids (and usually light materials) will float on the surface - The ocean has currents so the oil will dissipate to from oil slicks and they will drift from each other in the current, its normal.

Ok but I find it strange that no other debris has been found around that oil slick. Could the oil be leakage before the aircraft made impact?
I know that oil slick has not been confirmed as being from the plane but observers have said it is consistent with being from a plane.

knucklehead6

Paully D wrote: »

RE: the terrorism angle.

Would the pilot not have communicated a disturbance?

It depends. If it was a not so smart suicide bomber, there's the possibility that the explosion destroyed the comms equipment.

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ok but I find it strange that no other debris has been found around that oil slick. Could the oil be leakage before the aircraft made impact?
I know that oil slick has not been confirmed as being from the plane but observers have said it is consistent with being from a plane.

As with AF447, oil slicks drifted so the actual location of the crash (when they found the tail was further away) - Just remember oil slicks drift so the accident sight could be near, materials also drift if light enough but they're weight can see them drift at a slower rate. 23:20, we will know more.

Regards the theory oil leaked before the impact, not a chance would that amount of oil be together due to leakage, it defies physics.

knucklehead6

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ok but I find it strange that no other debris has been found around that oil slick. Could the oil be leakage before the aircraft made impact?
I know that oil slick has not been confirmed as being from the plane but observers have said it is consistent with being from a plane.

Unlikely. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that any high altitude fuel leaks would have evaporated/disappated as it descended

Tigerandahalf

Kavs8 wrote: »

As with AF447, oil slicks drifted so the actual location of the crash (when they found the tail was further away) - Just remember oil slicks drift so the accident sight could be near, materials also drift if light enough but they're weight can see them drift at a slower rate. 23:20, we will know more.

Regards the theory oil leaked before the impact, not a change would that amount of oil be together due to leakage, it defies physics.

When the plane makes impact and the transponder emits a signal, does it give detailed co-ordinates?
It has been reported that the transponder signal was picked up so you would think that they would have a very good idea of the impact location.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

RE: the terrorism angle.

Would the pilot not have communicated a disturbance?

according to this guy...



"At this early stage, we're focusing on the facts that we don't know," said Todd Curtis, a former safety engineer with Boeing who worked on its 777 jumbo jets and is now director of the Airsafe.com Foundation.
If there was a minor mechanical failure — or even something more serious like the shutdown of both of the plane's engines — the pilots likely would have had time to radio for help. The lack of a call "suggests something very sudden and very violent happened," said William Waldock, who teaches accident investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz.


http://my.news.yahoo.com/why-malaysia-airlines-jet-might-disappeared-213133681.html