Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Oryx

skallywag wrote: »

Easy. Putin dropped a 777 Flaperon over the side of his yacht during his last Indian Ocean cruise in order to deflect from the fact that the plane is currently sitting on a landing strip in Siberia :rolleyes:

And luckily it managed to wash up somewhere and not float on the sea for eternity. Someone asked earlier why a suitcase also washed up, and was found by the same person. Well why not? Ocean currents carrying them the same way. Local inhabitants on the same beach every day. Its not that coincidental. There may be another 300 pieces of flotsam from the debris field that floated right by Reunion, and luckily these bits did not. Lets just hope they find more and can confirm that it is in fact MH370.

martinsvi

rrpc wrote: »

And if parts were lost, there would be a record of it. So far we haven't heard a peep from Boeing about this being a possibility.

do you honestly think that Boeing issues a press release every time a subcontractor they hire, make an oopsie? Boeing legally have nothing to do with this, flaperons are made by a third party Indian company called HAL..

now I'm not going to go into the issue that ditching a composite part overboard a ship is cheaper than recycling it in an environmentally responsible way, however, I certainly do not expect them to come up with a list of all the rejected and lost parts they have made unless forced by a court or other powerful institutions

I'm not trying to prove this scenario, in fact, I do realize that it sounds a bit far fetched and the part found most likely is from MH370, all I'm saying is there's more ways for a part to end up in a sea than you think and you shouldn't eliminate any of the scenarios until the facts are in.

IE 222

The Hypoxia event was suggested by the investegators and its a very possible reason. What do you think caused the plane to go off course and crash in the Indian Ocean? Tell me come on. Something happend and they turned the plane around trying to land at the nearest airport but they got overtaken and passed out and the plane flew then until its fuel ran out. Tell me what do you think happened? Come on planes dont just change route for no reason. It was no pilot sucide eiter. No edvience that the pilots were behind it.[/QUOTE]

Well if this hypoxia event happened then it must of started when the aircraft first went of course. So you expect a quick descent first of all, which did not happen. Then a mayday, which also did not happen and most certainly a request help for the nearest airport, which also did not happen. The aircraft then flew at the same altitude back across Malaysia carefully flying close to the border of Thailand. It then changed course not once but twice away from any airports in this region in a period of over an hour before military radar lost contact. By the time the southern turn was made all oxygen would of ran out. So if this emergency happened, why didn't one single event that would normally happen in an emergency not take place. The turns where massive changes in direction and the last radar position shows the plane heading north west towards India. Incredibly the plane does not turn south until its well beyond any radar that could trace it to its final resting place. What sort plane makes all these course changes without a command. These where commanded turns use by auto pilot. Manual control would of shown more unusual flight path and control on the military radar.

keith16

rrpc wrote: »

Apparently there have been only five ever 'hull losses' of Boeing 777s in its history. One was MH17 which was shot down over the Ukraine and the other three were on land and are accounted for. The only remaining unaccounted one is MH370.

I still find this mind-boggling.

Two of the five both from the same airline and little over 4 months apart. That's just not bad luck for Malaysian, that is something beyond a curse.

Tenger

keith16 wrote: »

I still find this mind-boggling.

Two of the five both from the same airline and little over 4 months apart. That's just not bad luck for Malaysian, that is something beyond a curse.

Indeed. Very odd.
BA B777 loss of engines on finals into LHR.
EgyptAir B777 fire in the cockpit while on the ground.
Asiana crash at SFO
then the two MH losses.

rrpc

Tenger wrote: »

Indeed. Very odd.
BA B777 loss of engines on finals into LHR.
EgyptAir B777 fire in the cockpit while on the ground.
Asiana crash at SFO
then the two MH losses.

If you think that's bad, you should look at the list of hull losses for the Boeing 737-200. 116 to date :eek:

Malaysia Airlines have lost 7 in total and they seem to work in pairs alright. Two 777s, two A330s, two Fokker 50s and a lone MD-11 (which actually didn't belong to them).

rrpc

martinsvi wrote: »

do you honestly think that Boeing issues a press release every time a subcontractor they hire, make an oopsie? Boeing legally have nothing to do with this, flaperons are made by a third party Indian company called HAL..

No, I don't think they make a press statement every time something falls off the back of a container ship. However in this case, they would by necessity have to say if they've lost any of these parts in case of confusion with MH370.

For all the scenarios you paint (which are plausible enough), what are the chances of just such a part, in a damaged condition turning up on a remote island in the Indian Ocean within the time frame for a piece of wreckage from the possible crash site of MH370 to reach that island?

Especially since the part does not look like it was removed from a plane but broken away from it and since there are no recorded occurrences of damage to a 777s wing outside of the five hull losses, the only parts that could have been transported to or from India would be intact ones.

jimbis

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I'll just throw this out there.....

Has MH17's flaperons been accounted for after it was blown up?

rrpc

jimbis wrote: »

I'm no conspiracy theorist but I'll just throw this out there.....

Has MH17's flaperons been accounted for after it was blown up?

They have. However both the right and left phalanges are missing...

martinsvi

rrpc wrote: »

However in this case, they would by necessity have to say if they've lost any of these parts in case of confusion with MH370.

in corporate America? dream on.. I don't think Boeing have officially made any announcements regarding this tragedy and I don't think they will unless they really really have to and no sooner than before some team of 20 solicitors take a look at it.

rrpc wrote: »

For all the scenarios you paint (which are plausible enough), what are the chances of just such a part, in a damaged condition turning up on a remote island in the Indian Ocean within the time frame for a piece of wreckage from the possible crash site of MH370 to reach that island?

very slim.. as I said, I don't try to push this theory, I'm just saying it's there and we should respect it enough to say that finding a b777 part in an ocean does not mean it's from MH370.. listen to what the Chinese families are saying - they don't care for "99% sure". they will only believe it once it's "100% confirmed"

rrpc wrote: »

Especially since the part does not look like it was removed from a plane but broken away from it and since there are no recorded occurrences of damage to a 777s wing outside of the five hull losses, the only parts that could have been transported to or from India would be intact ones.

I bow to your expertise by being able to determine the type of damage from bunch of grainy low res pictures.. to be honest, when I first looked at them, I thought it might as well be a wing from DC3.. Anyway parts can be produced with slight deviations from standards and it can be sent back without ever being mounted on a plane. It can slip the belts from a crane during assembly phase, fall on the concrete floor from significant height and can look as if it's "broken away". Knowing that the parts that are shipped back are write-offs there could be some negligence into handling and so on.. I wouldn't speculate about origins of the damage from the picture, I'm sure guys in France have sophisticated equipment available to tell exactly how the part was damaged and we'll know soon enough

and finally a very quick google search reveals that there have been in fact damages to wings/flaperons of 777 outside your mentioned 5 hull losses, and that is only from the known incidents.. we also have to account for incidents that wouldn't be publicly reported, such as accidental damages during maintenance and so on, so saying that there are no recorded incidents of such events is stretching it a bit too far

jimbis

rrpc wrote: »

They have. However both the right and left phalanges are missing...

Oh your hilarious

smurfjed

These where commanded turns use by auto pilot. Manual control would of shown more unusual flight path and control on the military radar.

What do you mean by this? You do know that the B777 is FBW?

rrpc

martinsvi wrote: »

I bow to your expertise by being able to determine the type of damage from bunch of grainy low res pictures.. to be honest, when I first looked at them, I thought it might as well be a wing from DC3.. Anyway parts can be produced with slight deviations from standards and it can be sent back without ever being mounted on a plane. It can slip the belts from a crane during assembly phase, fall on the concrete floor from significant height and can look as if it's "broken away". Knowing that the parts that are shipped back are write-offs there could be some negligence into handling and so on.. I wouldn't speculate about origins of the damage from the picture, I'm sure guys in France have sophisticated equipment available to tell exactly how the part was damaged and we'll know soon enough

There's some pretty good video of it, not just stills. The trailing edge is badly damaged; looks like bites were taken from it. You obviously didn't see the video since there's no way you would have thought it was a wing from anything if you had. I'll see if I can link it here.

and finally a very quick google search reveals that there have been in fact damages to wings/flaperons of 777 outside your mentioned 5 hull losses, and that is only from the known incidents.. we also have to account for incidents that wouldn't be publicly reported, such as accidental damages during maintenance and so on, so saying that there are no recorded incidents of such events is stretching it a bit too far

Yes there have, but to which variants of the 777? There are currently five different variants in service, MH370 was a 777-200ER. I don't know if they share parts or not, but the wingspans and lengths are different, so perhaps not.

rrpc

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhZA9Bb4ihU

And a photo (not too grainy I hope).

IE 222

smurfjed wrote: »

What do you mean by this? You do know that the B777 is FBW?

I do yes. Not sure what you mean really. What I'm saying is in the event of a depressurisation, emergency action needs to be taking and a pilot will push the nose down firmly to take full control of aircraft. As they were over the sea at the time he should dropped to 10,000ft. This was not done. Boeings fbw is a lot different from airbus as it allows the pilot to over rule the computers. If there was damage to aircraft then control wouldn't of been so easy and pilot would of struggled as fbw/autopilot are disconnected. Radar probably would of shown us a strange flight path in that instance. Also the aircraft would of stayed at this level and landed asap which they didn't. In terms of using autopilot for the turns well that's exactly that. The aircraft made the 3 turns perfectly to two different way points that we know of indicating they where manually inputted into autopilot. As the flight already had its heading and way points selected for flight to Beijing someone had to change these after the first turn off course.

rrpc

The part arrived in Paris this morning; AFP reporting it arrived at 04:17. Boeing are sending a technical team to assist in identifying it:

iora_rua

According to SKY news it's now going to travel by road, which will take at least seven hours, and then there's a wait until next Wed while the various experts/investigators gather.

smurfjed

What I'm saying is in the event of a depressurisation, emergency action needs to be taking and a pilot will push the nose down firmly to take full control of aircraft.

this is not the recommended Boeing 777 procedure, where did you get it from?

eatmyshorts

IE 222 wrote: »

I do yes. Not sure what you mean really. What I'm saying is in the event of a depressurisation, emergency action needs to be taking and a pilot will push the nose down firmly to take full control of aircraft. As they were over the sea at the time he should dropped to 10,000ft. This was not done. Boeings fbw is a lot different from airbus as it allows the pilot to over rule the computers. If there was damage to aircraft then control wouldn't of been so easy and pilot would of struggled as fbw/autopilot are disconnected. Radar probably would of shown us a strange flight path in that instance. Also the aircraft would of stayed at this level and landed asap which they didn't. In terms of using autopilot for the turns well that's exactly that. The aircraft made the 3 turns perfectly to two different way points that we know of indicating they where manually inputted into autopilot. As the flight already had its heading and way points selected for flight to Beijing someone had to change these after the first turn off course.

You're getting a bit confused there. Actually, most of that is gibberish.

Busted Flat.

iora_rua wrote: »

According to SKY news it's now going to travel by road, which will take at least seven hours, and then there's a wait until next Wed while the various experts/investigators gather.

This is going to follow the same delays as MH17, these delays are unacceptable, what is the agenda here.

L1011

Busted Flat. wrote: »

This is going to follow the same delays as MH17, these delays are unacceptable, what is the agenda here.

There isn't an "agenda".

Busted Flat.

L1011 wrote: »

There isn't an "agenda".

How many days since it was found, takes how long to transport it by plane to an airport that is seven hours away by road, and the sleuths will not look at it till next Wensday. How long will it take for them to make up their minds about which plane it belonged to. There is a number on it. It's a repeat of the MH17.
From Malaysia is 3519K from Diegao Garcia, from Reunion Island to Dieago Garcia is 2375K Draw a line across your atlas and see the position of British overseas territory otherwise Dieago Garcia. It is the biggest military and aircraft base outside the US, why did there advanced technology and radar not dectect the plane in the Indian Ocean. Agenda?????.

cnocbui

The detection range of a land based radar is probably about 320Km. The Indian Ocean is 6400 km wide at the equator. Can you see the problem?

eatmyshorts

cnocbui wrote: »

. Can you see the problem?

Doubt he can see much from below that tinfoil hat.

Calina

Busted Flat. wrote: »

How many days since it was found, takes how long to transport it by plane to an airport that is seven hours away by road, and the sleuths will not look at it till next Wensday. How long will it take for them to make up their minds about which plane it belonged to. There is a number on it. It's a repeat of the MH17.
From Malaysia is 3519K from Diegao Garcia, from Reunion Island to Dieago Garcia is 2375K Draw a line across your atlas and see the position of British overseas territory otherwise Dieago Garcia. It is the biggest military and aircraft base outside the US, why did there advanced technology and radar not dectect the plane in the Indian Ocean. Agenda?????.

You appear to be predisposed towards seeing an agenda where there is none. I don't know how you can honestly convince yourself it's a "repeat of the MH17" seeing as a) MH17 happened after this flight disappeared. The other point you might want to bear in mind is that drawing lines on maps is about the most stupid way of identifying shortest routes to places because a) maps don't reflect reality and haven't for years and b) maps don't highlight things planes might want to fly around, things which move.

My personal view is that the vast majority who are doing the "why didn't they find X in the Indian Ocean" act have no concept on how hard it is to find anything in the ocean particularly if it's below the surface.

There is a cruise ship called the Lyubov Orlova which got lost in the Atlantic. The current assumption is that it must have sunk because no one can find it any more.

To me, it looks as though the part was flown to France on a regular scheduled AF flight to Paris. If you can find several flights a day direct to Toulouse from Reunion, then you might have a point. However, you can't because there are none. As for the experts, it might interest you to know they are not robots and cannot be summoned out of nowhere. If you're pulling them from several corners of the world, ie France, Seattle and Malaysia, getting them all in place for Sunday breakfast is not an option.

You are not being reasonable about this.

lord lucan

Busted Flat. wrote: »

How many days since it was found, takes how long to transport it by plane to an airport that is seven hours away by road, and the sleuths will not look at it till next Wensday. How long will it take for them to make up their minds about which plane it belonged to. There is a number on it. It's a repeat of the MH17.
From Malaysia is 3519K from Diegao Garcia, from Reunion Island to Dieago Garcia is 2375K Draw a line across your atlas and see the position of British overseas territory otherwise Dieago Garcia. It is the biggest military and aircraft base outside the US, why did there advanced technology and radar not dectect the plane in the Indian Ocean. Agenda?????.

You're the one with an agenda, read the Mod instruction again at the beginning of the thread before posting again or it'll be a ban.

knucklehead6

Sky News now reporting an aircraft door has been found washed ashore on reunion.

http://news.sky.com/story/1529113/plane-door-found-on-reunion-sky-sources

h3000

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/627727547787292672

http://news.sky.com/story/1529113/mh370-search-plane-door-found-sky-sources

kippy

High chance that a good few bits and pieces are found washed up in that general area over the next while. It may not help much with finding the crash site but puts to bed the few theories about the plane not having crashed.

rrpc

Very early to be speculating on this piece of debris. Clicanoo.re reporting that it could be off anything:

New discovery this morning. But this time, it took place, not in Saint-André, where was found the wing aircraft debris and other objects like a suitcase, but in Saint-Denis, at the height of the radar of chaudron (weather radar station).

It is this time a metal object with ideograms which was handed to the police.

But this new discovery is to be taken with the utmost caution. There is no evidence that it is indeed a link with the part that is now in Toulouse to see
if it belongs to the Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines.

Saint Denis is the most northerly point of the island and is where the airport is located.