Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Sand

Its a real problem for Irish governance - as soon as a TD joins a department as Minister, they stop representing the public, and seem to believe their mission is to represent the civil servants and public institutions (The Gardai in this case). The real problem is that Shatter is ( by all accounts) an individually decent representative. It demonstrates that even good people get swallowed up by the system of no accountability, no transparency, no apologies that is Irish public service.

Its still said, with some sort of weird pride, that corrupt Irish politicians have never proven to be in it for the money.

My name is URL

Anyone see the reaction from assistant Chief Constable of the PSNI to the video of a passed out girl being moved from the 'road' to a bus-lane? Instantly critical of the incident and the officers involved.

PSNI assistant Chief Constable George Hamilton said the behaviour of the two officers involved was “well below the standards we expect from our officers in dealing with vulnerable people, whether the vulnerability is due to drink or to anything else.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/video-shows-psni-leaving-unconscious-woman-in-bus-lane-1.1730710

Straight up and no circling of the wagons. I personally don't even think it was that bad, but can you imagine such an immediate and direct response by our lot?!

michael999999

My name is URL wrote: »

Anyone see the reaction from assistant Chief Constable of the PSNI to the video of a passed out girl being moved from the 'road' to a bus-lane? Instantly critical of the incident and the officers involved.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/video-shows-psni-leaving-unconscious-woman-in-bus-lane-1.1730710

Straight up and no circling of the wagons. I personally don't even think it was that bad, but can you imagine such an immediate and direct response by our lot?!

Only because the video was made public.

The ruc/psni are as corrupt as anything going on down here.

Muahahaha

michael999999 wrote: »

Only because the video was made public.

The ruc/psni are as corrupt as anything going on down here.

Why what have they been up to ?

aloyisious

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/whistleblowers-varadkar-calls-on-garda-commissioner-to-withdraw-disgusting-remark-30110411.html

Plus on RTE news. Leo stated that if the apology was not sincere,it should not be offered and that the leakers had done the state a service for which they should be thanked.

Going Forward

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/shatter-and-callinan-should-apologise-gay-byrne-1.1727374

Gay Byrne speaking some sense...

Busted Flat.

Is Leo's statement just saber rattling, or the first moves of a heave.

Red Crow

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Is Leo's statement just saber rattling, or the first moves of a heave.

It's an ample opportunity for someone to point score with the public and ultimately that's at play here. This is the time for Varadkar to show a position of strength when the Taoiseach and Minister for Justice are failing to do so.

Muahahaha

Fair play to Leo for at least sticking his neck out, even if it is political opportunism it still needed to be said and it carries more weight coming from a government minister.

I'd say that Shatter, Kenny and Callinan are furious with Varadkar right now, they thought they had buried this story last week just before they all legged it abroad for Paddys Day and now a week on Leo goes and ignites it again by sticking the boot into Callinan and calling on him to withdraw his remarks to the PAC that the actions of whistleblowers were "disgusting".

Leo must have no ambition to ever be a Minister for Justice because after today's comments humiliating Callinan he's now a marked man up in the Phoenix Park.

golfball37

Muahahaha wrote: »

Fair play to Leo for at least sticking his neck out, even if it is political opportunism it still needed to be said and it carries more weight coming from a government minister.

I'd say that Shatter, Kenny and Callinan are furious with Varadkar right now, they thought they had buried this story last week just before they all legged it abroad for Paddys Day and now a week on Leo goes and ignites it again by sticking the boot into Callinan and calling on him to withdraw his remarks to the PAC that the actions of whistleblowers were "disgusting".

Leo must have no ambition to ever be a Minister for Justice because after today's comments humiliating Callinan he's now a marked man up in the Phoenix Park.

And therein your last line lies the problem imo. We need to break the Political link between our Police force and government. Have an Independent police board with no political appointments. We should appoint a commissioner from outside the force as a first step to this reform.

K-9

Leo must have been out of the press for a few days.

The easy thing is to ask the Commissioner to apologise while basically backing Shatter.

aloyisious

I'd like the Comm to make a sincere apology, but don't actually expect that he will make such an apology. He's had a period of about two months to put the record straight and failed to do so. I think he's too proud to make an apology, as that would be an admission of error on his behalf. The only way I'd believe in any apology from him is one made by him following his resignation from the post of Garda Commissioner. The last change he made to his "disgusting" statement was made after the Garda Inspectorate made it's Garda Penalty Points system report public, telling everyone that the system was not fit for purpose and was open to abuse by members of the Garda force.

That was the very point Sgt McCabe and Mr Wilson were making. The Comm had to backtrack fast from his "disgusting" remark in reference to the Sgt & Mr Wilson and came up with the "elucidating" 2nd statement to the effect that he was not making a direct reference to the characters of Sgt McCabe and Mr Wilson, but meant something else completely. Again he had several weeks to re-examine his statement along with urging from public figures to do so and did not take that opportunity.

tayto lover

Leo is just eyeing the leadership.
Anyone who thinks he's any different from the rest of the shower is just fooling themselves.
Leo is a player.

Sierra Oscar

tayto lover wrote: »

Leo is just eyeing the leadership.

I would say that he was concerned to see Simon Coveney take the lead on this in the Sunday Independent last weekend. Coveney starting to shape up to be the next leader. He would be a good one too I reckon.

gizmo555

aloyisious wrote: »

I'd like the Comm to make a sincere apology, but don't actually expect that he will make such an apology . . .

Doesn't seem likely, given that he's just released another statement this evening denying he said what everyone in the country knows he did say.

tayto lover

Is it possible to name even one honest politician who is not there to self-serve?
Just one.
Even one?

Busted Flat.

tayto lover wrote: »

Is it possible to name even one honest politician who is not there to self-serve?
Just one.
Even one?

You are expecting to much.

Banjo String

tayto lover wrote: »

Is it possible to name even one honest politician who is not there to self-serve?
Just one.
Even one?

Stephen Donnelly possibly.

Manach

tayto lover wrote: »

Is it possible to name even one honest politician who is not there to self-serve?
Just one.
Even one?

President "Jed" Bartlet.

Muahahaha

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I would say that he was concerned to see Simon Coveney take the lead on this in the Sunday Independent last weekend. Coveney starting to shape up to be the next leader. He would be a good one too I reckon.

Coveeny's name seems to crop up everytime the next leader of FG is discussed. I can see where people are coming from, he's one of their better communicators and comes across as genuine. But for me the jury is still out as to wether he would make a good leader and possibly Taoiseach. All we've really seen Coveney do since he became Minister for Argiculture is play to his gallery (farmers and fisherman) constantly getting himself in the news giving the impression that he is fighting hard for their interests at EU level when the reality is (and always will be) that Ireland has little or no influence over EU agricultural policy in comparison to the UK, Germany and France. But he comes home and sells the media the line that he is boxing clever in Brussels when the reality is he's just got to tow the line that the agricultural superpowers feed him.

In fairness to him he did handle the horsemeat issue pretty well but at the same time Irish processing plants were caught red handed by vets and scientists in other EU countries so he had no choice but to play it the way he did.

I can't yet remember any situation where Coveney has really been tested so for me the jury is out. He is great with words but I need to see more definitive actions.

Anyway back on topic, today's events bring this to yet another level. The Commissioner is not for turning on an apology or even retracting his disgusting remarks. It's a bit too late for him to apologise now and the man has such a thick neck that he actually doesn't have it within him.

It'll be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few days. There has been suggestions that Leo's speech today was a result of private opinion polls carried out by FG that showed people are annoyed by the whole Shatter/Callinan/GSOC affair and it is permeating to the FG councillors on the doorsteps while they are out campaigning to keep their seats in an election less than two months away. If that's the case then Leo may have said what he said with Kenny's permission, what we are seeing is a shift in FG handling of the issue and ultimately that may mean that Shatter has to cut Callinan loose or else face being dragged down himself.

Regardless the story of mismanagement and incompetence in the force is not going to go away. The woman whose 10 year old child was raped has an upcoming High Court case against the Gardai. The family of murder victim Sylvia Roche Kelly also have a high court case against the Gardai due to be heard on May 26th. This story will still be trundling on into the summer so I'd be shocked if Callinan is still in situ by June, then again I'm already shocked that he is still in situ right now.

bedirect

I'd say shatter and Callinan are going to wait for Guerin report. I'd say Guerin will announce an inquiry which at this stage is probably for the best, to clear the air. The whistleblowers will be subject to examination so let's hope the truth comes out. I think everybody is getting weary of this. It reminds me off when Michael mc dowell was minister, there was lots of criticism of him. Yet he reformed the prison officers Took in reserves and reformed immigration. Shatter should be applauded for this reforms not this side show. The secret taping is very underhand

aloyisious

Is the secret taping reference to the meeting between Sgt McCabe and the former Gda Confidential person? Given how the situation had developed between the Senior Garda Staff Officers and the two whistleblowers in regards to even acknowledging there was a problem with the mishandling of the penalty points system, I suspect that those involved in the situation might have put in a large amount of paperwork in Garda files, or even DOJ files (quelle surprise if there is nothing to be found). I can see how Sgt McCabe would have felt the need to protect himself against two official bodies with a larger budget by taping conversations between himself and others so that he had true records of what was said.

What remains to be seen now if there were other recordings made to date of conversations between the various people involved, given how there's a fair amount of expertise within AGS in regard to this style of minuting.

He also stated that he found it disgusting at a personal level that Sgt McCabe and Mr Wilson allegations were against all the other Gardai. How could one make such a statement and not understand that it's wording would be seen as a reference to two people solely at a personal level?

Another thing doing the rounds is how two ministers have made public statements asking the Comm to reconsider the wording of his Dail Statement (which he made in his official role as AGS Comm) which included a reference to how only two Gardai (as against all the other several thousand Gardai) had problems with how the PPS was working. I wonder if this is coincidental to the FF ard fheis this weekend, a pre-emptive strike against the issue being raised as something to be commented-on by the leader of the opposition (steal his thunder) while posing as a hero to the public and (not) declaring one's personal cabinet promotional desires as well

Edit, some-one wondered what Comm Callinan had on Alan. I suppose that Alan and the Comm have had a very good working relationship going back (at least) to the time when (following on from the "insult" given to Alan at the AGSI conference) Comm callinan "carpeted" the offenders and made it clear that fact was reported in the media to the public.

aloyisious

Loving the comments from Willie O'Dea on RTE R1 just now about the Comm "the Comm should remember the 1st rule of politics: when you're in a hole, stop digging it deeper". Willie first commented that the Comm reminded him of a Giraffe playing a guitar

holyhead

Shatter should apologize for saying the whistleblowers didnt co-operate with the inquiry. They were never asked to. Shatter needs to be much more careful in future not to focus a bad light on people without reason.

The perception regarding Callinan is that he called the actions of the two whistleblowers disgusting. He can split hairs all he likes. He needs to get off his high horse and apologize.

tayto lover

aloyisious wrote: »

Loving the comments from Willie O'Dea on RTE R1 just now about the Comm "the Comm should remember the 1st rule of politics: when you're in a hole, stop digging it deeper". Willie first commented that the Comm reminded him of a Giraffe playing a guitar

Pot, kettle, black, Willie. You above all have some neck.

Sierra Oscar

Our Taoiseach is trying to silence his minster's now.

Kenny tells ministers: bring up concerns on Commissioner at Cabinet - not in public

TAOISEACH Enda Kenny says he would prefer if minister raised concerns on the Garda Commissioner in private at the Cabinet table, "rather than have them aired in public".

The Taoiseach's comments are viewed as a slap across the wrist for Transport Minister Leo Varadkar who criticised Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan.

That is a slap in the face to both Varadkar and Coveney alike.

Busted Flat.

RED Alert Heave

Banjo String

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Our Taoiseach is trying to silence his minster's now.

Kenny tells ministers: bring up concerns on Commissioner at Cabinet - not in public



That is a slap in the face to both Varadkar and Coveney alike.

How dare Leo air his views in public.

Enda coming across as a very weak, spineless leader in all of this.

rodento

Banjo String wrote: »

How dare Leo air his views in public.

Enda coming across as a very weak, spineless leader in all of this.

Irish times spin is better

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/taoiseach-defends-callinan-and-criticises-ministers-1.1733787

_Kaiser_

Banjo String wrote: »

How dare Leo air his views in public.

Enda coming across as a very weak, spineless leader in all of this.

Enda Kenny is coming across as exactly what he has always been - a figurehead without any charisma or leadership ability. Someone who can be led rather than lead, whether it's Merkel pulling the strings, or Cameron, or the favours that must be owed to Shatter and others since Bruton's failed attempt to oust him.

He might be trying to silence his ministers, but he's also trying to silence public debate on the issue. Can't have the "peasants" getting ideas after all. These things are for discussion behind closed doors - it's the Irish way!

Isn't it great living in Ireland's "democracy".....