Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Fred Cohen

Hootanany wrote: »

You forgot about the attempted abduction of a child?

This is rotten rotten to the core and Shatter is defending it, local ection are very soon give them a nose bleed and they might see reason.

Also the small matter of the brutal murder of a young mother in Limerick while he was out on bail for both (the taxi assault & the child abduction) of these.

K-9

bobcoffee wrote: »

it is funny how much the smaller thing like, penalty points (cause tbh not really that surprising) gets lots of air time
but allowing the that monster to roam around free only to then attempted to take a child...
how did a brutal rape of that kind get no attention, that is just insane altogether.

The child wasn't raped AFAIK.

aloyisious

Hootanany wrote: »

You forgot about the attempted abduction of a child?

This is rotten rotten to the core and Shatter is defending it, local ection are very soon give them a nose bleed and they might see reason.

Ah, I knew there was some mention about another incident but wasn't reasonably sure what it was, so didn't list it. Ta A.

rodento

Is this the beginning of the end....

www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatter-broke-cabinet-rules-over-state-jet-30094781.html

rodento

rodento wrote: »

Is this the beginning of the end....

www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatter-broke-cabinet-rules-over-state-jet-30094781.html

i cant see him going over this!
probably not even registering as a problem to him.

Hootanany

rodento wrote: »

Is this the beginning of the end....

www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatter-broke-cabinet-rules-over-state-jet-30094781.html

The arrogance of him

rodento

Would be mad to suggest he will, but the timing of the story is interesting, would love to know how the indo got the story and is this a change of tack for them

rodento

You also have to ask yourself if everyone in labour have confidence in the minister for justice....


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/labour-expected-to-back-moves-for-new-garda-authority-1.1726118

Banjo String

rodento wrote: »

You also have to ask yourself if everyone in labour have confidence in the minister for justice....


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/labour-expected-to-back-moves-for-new-garda-authority-1.1726118

I emailed Emmet Stagg (in my constituency) asking him this very question a few weeks back.

He didn't reply.

aloyisious

rodento wrote: »

Is this the beginning of the end....

www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatter-broke-cabinet-rules-over-state-jet-30094781.html

Wonder which hat he was wearing when he booked the jet.

Hootanany

Ten gallon one

aloyisious

Revenue Officer: have you anything to declare? (look's at hat).

Alan: Only State Secrets.

kerry4sam

Their are even Ex-Gardaí putting on the pressure on Minister Alan Shatter (see here).

Now I am calling that article nonsense in every sense of the word. If the full-time members of An Garda Síochána were actually professional and honest; decent and genuinely caring individuals, then the public might actually trust them and turn to them. That's not the case so asking a Minister to pull a blinder and a miracle is just pure nonsense.

The article states

He added that Minister Alan Shatter and the Garda Commissioner have a way to go in order to restore confidence within the force

but it is NOT down to those two men to restore the confidence, it is down to each and every full-time member of An Garda Síochána to earn it themselves and not pass the buck in typical fashion when the public stops trusting them.

kerry4sam

kerry4sam wrote: »

Their are even Ex-Gardaí putting on the pressure on Minister Alan Shatter (see here).

Now I am calling that article nonsense in every sense of the word. If the full-time members of An Garda Síochána were actually professional and honest; decent and genuinely caring individuals, then the public might actually trust them and turn to them. That's not the case so asking a Minister to pull a blinder and a miracle is just pure nonsense.

The article states
but it is NOT down to those two men to restore the confidence, it is down to each and every full-time member of An Garda Síochána to earn it themselves and not pass the buck in typical fashion when the public stops trusting them.

rank and file Gardai have never had the authority to cancel tickets, cancellations can be made by Superindents and above ( and inspectors when in an acting supers role)

i think you will find that rank and file Gardai have nothing to do with this particular 'row' or whatever you wnat to call it.
and their commisioner and minister coming out and not backing the whistleblowers, making themselves look arrogant, has nothing got to do with Gardai.

and yes, it does affect morale, if you think the whole country is against you, if you stop someone speeding just to get abuse off the motorist, then yes it does affect morale.

and the whole country believing 2 men are heroes and the rest of the force are corrupt then yes that does affect morale.

most Gardai ARE genuine, honest decent and caring.

leaders should lead. The commisioner and minister are not leading the force correctly.

suicide_circus

High ranking politicians do not resign over scandals in this country. there is no history of it. two fingers to the electorate and a big sh1t eating grin, that's the ticket.

rodento

Couldn't have said it better myself

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/the-response-that-sneers-and-belittles-30096798.html

Why is Alan Shatter allowing an untrue statement by the Garda chief to stand?

rodento

Indo also takes a swipe at rte's leaking of report

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/colum-kenny-no-good-way-to-explain-this-leak-of-report-30096766.html

michael999999

bubblypop wrote: »

rank and file Gardai have never had the authority to cancel tickets, cancellations can be made by Superindents and above ( and inspectors when in an acting supers role)

i think you will find that rank and file Gardai have nothing to do with this particular 'row' or what event you wnat to call it.
and their commisioner and minister coming out and not backing the whistleblowers, making themselves look arrogant, has nothing got to do with Gardai.

and yes, it does affect morale, if you think the whole country is against you, if you stop someone speeding just to get abuse off the motorist, then yes it does affect morale.

and the whole country believing 2 men are heroes and the rest of the force are corrupt then yes that does affect morale.

most Gardai ARE genuine, honest decent and caring.

leaders should lead. The commisioner and minister are not leading the force correctly.

Well why are NONE of the Garda unions coming out and backing the whistle blowers on behalf of the rank and file Gardai?

Why don't they show support for these great men?

fr3d12

bubblypop wrote: »

rank and file Gardai have never had the authority to cancel tickets, cancellations can be made by Superindents and above ( and inspectors when in an acting supers role)

i think you will find that rank and file Gardai have nothing to do with this particular 'row' or whatever you wnat to call it.
and their commisioner and minister coming out and not backing the whistleblowers, making themselves look arrogant, has nothing got to do with Gardai.

and yes, it does affect morale, if you think the whole country is against you, if you stop someone speeding just to get abuse off the motorist, then yes it does affect morale.

and the whole country believing 2 men are heroes and the rest of the force are corrupt then yes that does affect morale.

most Gardai ARE genuine, honest decent and caring.

leaders should lead. The commisioner and minister are not leading the force correctly.

Are you saying that no rank and file member ever went to a super and requested points being cancelled?
Rank and file members have a lot to do with this particular row as you call it, not one of the Gardai representative bodies who collectively speak on behalf of all Gardai have come out in support of the whistleblowers so one can only assume by their silence they are on the side of Shatter and Callinan.
All members who were aware of malpractice and abuses of the system but did or said nothing are equally as guilty as those abusing the system, there is no neutral territory on this issue, out of a force of 13,000 I find it very hard to believe that only two members witnessed malpractice, what can be said of the rest is they didn't want to rock the boat and were indifferent to any wrongdoing or they were afraid for their careers, either way they failed in their duty.
All members have a duty of care to the people of this state and that includes a moral responsibility to report their colleauges and superiors if need be who are incompetent, corrupt and/or neglecting their duties. I admit that this would not be an easy thing for anyone to do but it should come before any personal loyalties and friendships.
While I agree with you that the majority of Gardai are decent people sadly for a lot of members it's only a pensionable job akin to the county council where the likelihood of ever being sacked is remote, get in young and get out before 50 with a nice pension.
I also don't believe for one second that motorists are giving Gardai abuse, people aren't that stupid because they know they would end up in the back of the squad car, I've never met a Garda on traffic duty willing to take any kind of guff and rightly so.
The group think of the majority of AGS is AGS first and everything else second and you claim morale is low because of this issue so how was morale while everything was being swept under the carpet?
Members playing dumb on the issue blaming the leadership as you are just isn't going to do the credibility of the force any good.

gizmo555

fr3d12 wrote: »

The group think of the majority of AGS is AGS first and everything else second . . .

It's déja vu all over again.

In his findings, Judge Smithwick said the "integrity of and confidence in An Garda Síochána can properly be maintained only if suggestions of inappropriate or illegal conduct by members are taken seriously, transparently and thoroughly investigated and, above all, not tolerated or ignored on the basis of some misguided sense of loyalty to the force or to its members".

He said the culture of failing to adequately address suggestions of wrongdoing, either for reasons of political expediency or by virtue of misguided loyalty, has been a feature of life in this State.

rodento

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/shatter-and-callinan-should-apologise-gay-byrne-1.1727374

aloyisious

It look's like the old US adage would apply here in getting such a response for Messrs Callinan and Shatter: W.Y.G.T.B.T.B.T.H.A.M.F.

take everything

The really interesting stuff is what could Callinan have on Shatter for all this to happen in the first place?

michael999999

michael999999 wrote: »

Well why are NONE of the Garda unions coming out and backing the whistle blowers on behalf of the rank and file Gardai?

Why don't they show support for these great men?

well for a start, the Gardai are not allowed by law to join a union.
they are merely represntative associations and dont have the same authority or protection of a union.
another way that Gardai are not equal in the workplace.

anyway, i cant ever see a day when they would come on on the side of one or two members because at the end of the day, the commisioner is their boss too, they will NEVER come out against him publically, unless of course MAYBE after the fact, if he was to resign!

this just further proves how garadi have no say publically against their bosses. they are just not allowed!

Busted Flat.

bubblypop wrote: »

well for a start, the Gardai are not allowed by law to join a union.
they are merely represntative associations and dont have the same authority or protection of a union.
another way that Gardai are not equal in the workplace.

anyway, i cant ever see a day when they would come on on the side of one or two members because at the end of the day, the commisioner is their boss too, they will NEVER come out against him publically, unless of course MAYBE after the fact, if he was to resign!

this just further proves how garadi have no say publically against their bosses. they are just not allowed!

The lack of balls is a consideration, PDFORA had the balls. Now they are listened to.

Busted Flat.

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The lack of balls is a consideration, PDFORA had the balls. Now they are listened to.

agreed.

GRA and AGSI havent a notion.

basically they are all members of AGS themselves and have their own agenda as to promotion, jobs, etc none of them are willing to rock the boat for someone else.

rodento

Highlights and article link below, gobsmacked....

GSOC had sought several of the garda case files for almost four years.

The woman said her initial contact with GSOC was on the advice of Justice Minister Alan Shatter who was at the time Fine Gael's justice spokesman.

GSOC's probe remains ongoing because of repeated delays in interviewing key garda witnesses. In many cases the delays were the result of the continued unavailability of key officers.



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-files-on-child-rape-probe-handed-over-to-gsoc-30100521.html

Muahahaha

rodento wrote: »

Highlights and article link below, gobsmacked....

GSOC had sought several of the garda case files for almost four years.

The woman said her initial contact with GSOC was on the advice of Justice Minister Alan Shatter who was at the time Fine Gael's justice spokesman.

GSOC's probe remains ongoing because of repeated delays in interviewing key garda witnesses. In many cases the delays were the result of the continued unavailability of key officers.



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-files-on-child-rape-probe-handed-over-to-gsoc-30100521.html

That is unreal. We had heard before allegations of rape(s) not investigated properly by Gardai but that's the first time I've seen actual details of it. A ten year old girl got raped and the Gardai/DPP never brought criminal charges on the neighbour it is alleged that done it ? Something stinks to high hell here.....I'm astounded, totally gobsmacked

Sierra Oscar

So now it looks like the Minister also misled the committee. What a joke.

‘Alarm’ at Shatter’s Failure to Disprove Bug Claim

norrie rugger

Almost as bad a FFer that one