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Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

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    #512
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Is it an wonder the public aren't engaged in this. A whole days debate in the Dail and it gets 5/6 mins on the main evening news bulletin of the national broadcaster.

    It was covered fairly well on radio though, Sean O Rourke, Mary Wilson and Matt Cooper particularly, giving Charlie Flanagan some rope.

    Didn't see the news earlier. Vincent now!


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    #513
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    He still got it wrong RE: Mary Lynch, he said in his speech she didn't turn up in court because she wasn't aware of what date it was on but she said herself on Radio one today that she was aware of the court date but was phoned by a senior Garda two days prior and was told it had been postponed.

    So did he make a mistake or was he again being misleading and inferring it was her own fault she missed it.

    I think people are mixing up all the different issues in this controversy. When Mary Lynch missed the court date, it was the date of sentence, she is put out because she did not get to give a victim impact statement. Now she is quite entitled to be in court, but most victims don't actually go if the offender has pleaded guilty. Most victims just don't want to.
    Also I believe her case was dealt with in the district court? ( I am open to correction on thus) I have never ever seen a victim impact statement given in district court.

    Anyway, one victim not appearing in court is not a huge issue, its hardly reason to have an inquiry. Its for the victim to make a complaint to gsoc, which in this case I believe she did.

    Is it possible, that perhaps there is so much different issues/complaints taking place that people are getting confused?


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    #514
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think people are mixing up all the different issues in this controversy. When Mary Lynch missed the court date, it was the date of sentence, she is put out because she did not get to give a victim impact statement. Now she is quite entitled to be in court, but most victims don't actually go if the offender has pleaded guilty. Most victims just don't want to.
    Also I believe her case was dealt with in the district court? ( I am open to correction on thus) I have never ever seen a victim impact statement given in district court.

    Anyway, one victim not appearing in court is not a huge issue, its hardly reason to have an inquiry. Its for the victim to make a complaint to gsoc, which in this case I believe she did.

    Is it possible, that perhaps there is so much different issues/complaints taking place that people are getting confused?

    Are you for real or just a complete gob$hite.


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    #515
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Are you for real or just a complete gob$hite.

    Excuse me??
    Who are you calling names? She missed the court date.

    Because she was told she wasn't required or whatever she was told, she missed it, she wasn't there?
    Are you some fool that you can't understand English??


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    #516
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I think people are mixing up all the different issues in this controversy. When Mary Lynch missed the court date, it was the date of sentence, she is put out because she did not get to give a victim impact statement. Now she is quite entitled to be in court, but most victims don't actually go if the offender has pleaded guilty. Most victims just don't want to.
    Also I believe her case was dealt with in the district court? ( I am open to correction on thus) I have never ever seen a victim impact statement given in district court.

    Anyway, one victim not appearing in court is not a huge issue, its hardly reason to have an inquiry. Its for the victim to make a complaint to gsoc, which in this case I believe she did.

    Is it possible, that perhaps there is so much different issues/complaints taking place that people are getting confused?

    The woman wanted to be in court but was told it was postponed.
    She was also told by senior Gardai that Mr. McCabe was the Garda who granted McGrath bail.
    This man attempted to murder her and there was a serious sexual element to the attack as well yet he was only charged with assault so I would say it is a reason to have an inquiry, why are you trying to play down the importance of her case?

    The point I was making in my first post is that shatter misled the Dail whether intentional or not on the issue today.


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    #517
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Excuse me??
    Who are you calling names? She missed the court date.

    Because she was told she wasn't required or whatever she was told, she missed it, she wasn't there?
    Are you some fool that you can't understand English??

    She was available for the court date, she was informed by some low life that cannot be identified but represented himself as a Guard that she need not attend the court that day. Cop yourself on.


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    #518
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    The woman wanted to be in court but was told it was postponed.
    She was also told by senior Gardai that Mr. McCabe was the Garda who granted McGrath bail.
    This man attempted to murder her and there was a serious sexual element to the attack as well yet he was only charged with assault so I would say it is a reason to have an inquiry, why are you trying to play down the importance of her case?

    The point I was making in my first post is that shatter misled the Dail whether intentional or not on the issue today.

    I'm not downplaying anything!!
    She missed the court, for whatever reason, I'm not saying that was her fault.
    Also that offender was given station bail at the time, he would've been charged and bailed by whatever sergeant was working at that time.
    I have no idea who that was, do you?

    I'm far from downplaying this woman's ordeals, most people have no idea how much crime affects not only victims but the family of victims also.

    All I'm saying is perhaps this whole thing has got too mixed up and people are becoming confused.


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    #519
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    sopretty wrote: »
    Fair play to him.

    Re Wallace-
    He'll be re elected on that speech alone, his popularity was waning but he'll be seen at worst as being the best of a bad lot.


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    #520
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I'm not downplaying anything!!
    She missed the court, for whatever reason, I'm not saying that was her fault.
    Also that offender was given station bail at the time, he would've been charged and bailed by whatever sergeant was working at that time.
    I have no idea who that was, do you?

    I'm far from downplaying this woman's ordeals, most people have no idea how much crime affects not only victims but the family of victims also.

    All I'm saying is perhaps this whole thing has got too mixed up and people are becoming confused.

    Cop yourself on and stop making a complete Gob$hite of yourself.


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    #521
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    She was available for the court date, she was informed by some low life that cannot be identified but represented himself as a Guard that she need not attend the court that day. Cop yourself on.

    Yes, so she missed the court date!
    Do you not understand plain English?


    Are you saying that someone who wasn't a guard told her not to attend?
    That's news to me, I thought she was told she didn't need to go by the guards but if you're saying someone else told her not to go then its hardly the guards fault then??


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    #522
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I'm not downplaying anything!!
    She missed the court, for whatever reason, I'm not saying that was her fault.
    Also that offender was given station bail at the time, he would've been charged and bailed by whatever sergeant was working at that time.
    I have no idea who that was, do you?

    I'm far from downplaying this woman's ordeals, most people have no idea how much crime affects not only victims but the family of victims also.

    All I'm saying is perhaps this whole thing has got too mixed up and people are becoming confused.

    The woman said herself that more than one senior Gardai went out of their way to tell her it was McCabe who granted the bail, they called to her house and phoned her on more than one occassion so it's apparent to all but you that they were trying to discredit him and set him up as a fall guy after they f%&*d up.
    McCabe said he didn't give the bail and he's a lot more believable than any of the rest of them that were involved.


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    #523
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Excuse me??
    Who are you calling names? She missed the court date.

    Because she was told she wasn't required or whatever she was told, she missed it, she wasn't there?
    Are you some fool that you can't understand English??

    She didn't "miss the court" date, she was telephoned by the Gardai and told the case had been postponed. This was after her assailant had abducted a child and murdered a woman, and the plausible inference being drawn by some people is that it suited the Gardai not to have her present in court asking awkward questions.

    The Gardai afterwards tried to blame Sgt McCabe for making the call to her, but apparently he has been able to prove he didn't.


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    #524
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Busted Flat. wrote: »
    Cop yourself on and stop making a complete Gob$hite of yourself.

    I'm sorry, how exactly do you think I'm a gob sh1te?
    Because I said she missed court? She did miss court! Obviously she was told she wasn't req or needed or whatever reason it was. She missed court!!!!
    Have you read my comments on this thread?


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    #525
    Busted Flat.
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭Busted Flat.


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yes, so she missed the court date!
    Do you not understand plain English?


    Are you saying that someone who wasn't a guard told her not to attend?
    That's news to me, I thought she was told she didn't need to go by the guards but if you're saying someone else told her not to go then its hardly the guards fault then??

    I am sorry I find I cannot respond to you anymore, there is a certain tolerance people can take.


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    #526
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I have no idea who that was, do you?.

    McCabe was able to prove he wasn't on duty when bail was given.


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    #527
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    The woman said herself that more than one senior Gardai went out of their way to tell her it was McCabe who granted the bail, they called to her house and phoned her on more than one occassion so it's apparent to all but you that they were trying to discredit him and set him up as a fall guy after they f%&*d up.
    McCabe said he didn't give the bail and he's a lot more believable than any of the rest of them that were involved.

    This is the issue I have with people, why is mc cabe a lot more believable than any of the rest if them?

    Like I said, I wait for evidence before I make up my mind.
    Maybe ye should too


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    #528
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    bubblypop wrote: »
    This is the issue I have with people, why is mc cabe a lot more believable than any of the rest if them?

    Like I said, I wait for evidence before I make up my mind.
    Maybe ye should too

    Why is mc cabe more believable?

    Because he has put his neck on the line to tell us the truth. Everything he has said so far has been proven to be true while the commissioner and the minister have been caught telling bare faced lies trying to cover this up and discredit him


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    #529
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    This is the issue I have with people, why is mc cabe a lot more believable than any of the rest if them?

    Like I said, I wait for evidence before I make up my mind.
    Maybe ye should too

    He PROVED he wasn't on duty when bail was given, is that evidence?
    He PROVED he wasn't directed to co-operate with O'Mahoney.Is that evidence?


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    #530
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bubblypop wrote: »
    This is the issue I have with people, why is mc cabe a lot more believable than any of the rest if them?

    Because everybody else is tripping over themselves trying to explain it all away. His story has been consistent from the get-go


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    #531
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    bubblypop wrote: »
    I'm sorry, how exactly do you think I'm a gob sh1te?
    Because I said she missed court? She did miss court! Obviously she was told she wasn't req or needed or whatever reason it was. She missed court!!!!
    Have you read my comments on this thread?

    As far as she was concerned, she didn't "miss court" she was instructed by a member of AGS, Not to attend court.

    Bit of a difference, you'd have to agree?


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    #532
    TheHappyChappy
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭TheHappyChappy


    Don't think he'll be agreeing to anything,

    Me thinks he lives in his own world - population 1


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    #533
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Why is mc cabe more believable?

    Because he has put his neck on the line to tell us the truth. Everything he has said so far has been proven to be true while the commissioner and the minister have been caught telling bare faced lies trying to cover this up and discredit him

    and everyday that passes we're not on the streets allows him all the time and resources to try get out of this, inevitably ending in tears for shatter/callinan in the end but not before we all sit through the long drawn out car crash!!


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    #534
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Tomorrows papers will be interesting to say the least. Apparently the confidential recipient warned a female Garda that if she made her sexual assault complaints known; she'd end up 'washing hair' like the last woman that dared to do so.

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that Shatter appointed this man. The buck stops with him.

    Something he said earlier today is also worth mentioning at this point. I'll just copy paste the comment from TheJournal because it sums it up
    “Asked if he would distance himself from comments by Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan at the Public Accounts Committee last month that the actions of the whistleblowers were “disgusting”, Shatter said he had not read the transcript of the commissioner’s remarks”

    So he’s not even bothered to read transcripts directly pertinent to himself and his department.. is that what he’s saying? What’s it supposed to mean anyway, that he wasn’t aware that Callinan made such a remark?… despite the media talking about it for the last month?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/alan-shatter-oliver-connolly-maurice-mccabe-1334953-Feb2014/#comments


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    #535
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Tomorrows papers will be interesting to say the least. Apparently the confidential recipient warned a female Garda that if she made her sexual assault complaints known; she'd end up 'washing hares' like the last woman that dared to do so.

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that Shatter appointed this man. The buck stops with him.

    Something he said earlier today is also worth mentioning at this point. I'll just copy paste the comment from TheJournal because it sums it up



    http://www.thejournal.ie/alan-shatter-oliver-connolly-maurice-mccabe-1334953-Feb2014/#comments

    Of course he read the transcripts what he should have said is that he hasn't come up with an answer yet.


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    #536
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Banjo String wrote: »
    As far as she was concerned, she didn't "miss court" she was instructed by a member of AGS, Not to attend court.

    Bit of a difference, you'd have to agree?

    You are being pedantic over grammar, I said she missed court, someone told her not to go.
    That's what I meant. She missed court for whatever reason, whoever told her. SHE WASNT THERE, therefore she missed court!!!!!
    Jesus, I never said it was her own fault!!!


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    #537
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    Of course he read the transcripts what he should have said is that he hasn't come up with an answer yet.

    If he did read them he's blatantly misleading the Dail again, if he didn't he's showing himself to be utterly inept.

    Either way he's fcuked


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    #538
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My name is URL wrote: »
    If he did read them he's blatantly misleading the Dail again, if he didn't he's showing himself to be utterly inept.

    Either way he's fcuked

    Is he though?
    I reckon shatter is so arrogant that nothing would ever make him resign.


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    #539
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Is he though?
    I reckon shatter is so arrogant that nothing would ever make him resign.

    I agree with this.
    He wants to make his legislative mark and determined nothing will get in the way.


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    #540
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Is he though?
    I reckon shatter is so arrogant that nothing would ever make him resign.

    Whether he resigns or not, he'll be remembered as the man that spearheaded the vast cover-up of abuses. How many bishops have refused to resign over the years.. and how many of them are highly regarded these days?


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    #541
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Is he though?
    I reckon shatter is so arrogant that nothing would ever make him resign.

    serious people power for a couple of hours on sat would see him and callinan retiring by mon afternoon and those remaining would be well advised to pull up their socks, or the people will be out again demanding general elections imediately and the corrupt locked up for once and for all!!


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