St Annes Park Planning Application

forgottenhills

IngazZagni wrote: »

This thread has been a good example of why we have a housing crisis in Ireland. Everyone wants housing but not in their area. This is absolutely the right place for a medium sized development like this. It’s private land that’s not accessible to the general public. It won’t affect the park in anyway. It’s a 10 minute walk to a Dart station with a new 10 minute frequency and more carriages being added. Better bus frequencies will be needed but that’s easy to do. It’s a 20 minute cycle to the Docklands which is adding thousands of jobs. Much of that cycle will be on a dedicated cycle track too and not on the edge of the road.

Traffic congestion is a problem in every corner of Dublin. That’s not a valid objection because then every development should be blocked in that case. Of course there needs to be good traffic management plans put in place, light sequencing changed etc but hopefully most people will avail of alternatives to the car like I outlined above.

Ok please let me know what other development is to take place over a prime inland grazing site for Brent geese, which is a protected species, and on land which were formerly playing pitches? The argument here is that this is an ecological and amenity site of special interest on both those fronts and as such should be offered special protection. These high rise apartments should be built on sites in the city centre where they make perfect sense.

forgottenhills

dubrov wrote: »

You are missing the point. This is privately owned land and will have no impact on the existing number of pitches or any other public amenity.

I am not opposed to the council buying land for public amenity where it is required.

No you are missing the point. These lands were pitches and are now being lost. There is no other lands available for pitches in these built up suburban areas. Pitches are being lost right left and centre as religious orders sell off land, often around schools, for development. You need to wake up before it is too late as this is irreversible.

Pitches are specially levelled and drained areas of lands and should be located close to populations so as to minimise required travel for training and playing purposes. It is no use having children from suburban Dublin all travelling out to Meath, Kildare or Wicklow every weekend to find enough pitches to play on. Because this is happening already and will only get worse. Leave the pitches, parks and ecological sites alone and build elsewhere.

hots

forgottenhills wrote: »

No you are missing the point. These lands were pitches and are now being lost. There is no other lands available for pitches in these built up suburban areas. Pitches are being lost right left and centre as religious orders sell off land, often around schools, for development. You need to wake up before it is too late as this is irreversible.

Pitches are specially levelled and drained areas of lands and should be located close to populations so as to minimise required travel for training and playing purposes. It is no use having children from suburban Dublin all travelling out to Meath, Kildare or Wicklow every weekend to find enough pitches to play on. Because this is happening already and will only get worse. Leave the pitches, parks and ecological sites alone and build elsewhere.

In fairness there is a hell of a lot of pitches still inside the park...

Decuc500

IngazZagni wrote: »

It’s a 10 minute walk to a Dart station with a new 10 minute frequency and more carriages being added.

I don't know if you get the Dart from Raheny but the 10 minute timetable has made things worse. There are Darts only every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means in morning rush hour they're jammed by Howth Junction, never mind Raheny.

There are the exact same number of Darts running in the busiest hour now than before the 10 minute timetable was brought in. One or two more carriages per train will only go so far. (In fact a lot of trains are already at max 8 carriages in length).

The Dart capacity issues on the northside can only be fixed by running trains less than 20 minutes apart and the current infrastructure can't do this so more housing developments will only be adding to an already broken rush hour service.

hots

Decuc500 wrote: »

I don't know if you get the Dart from Raheny but the 10 minute timetable has made things worse. There are Darts only every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means in morning rush hour they're jammed by Howth Junction, never mind Raheny.

There are the exact same number of Darts running in the busiest hour now than before the 10 minute timetable was brought in. One or two more carriages per train will only go so far. (In fact a lot of trains are already at max 8 carriages in length).

The Dart capacity issues on the northside can only be fixed by running trains less than 20 minutes apart and the current infrastructure can't do this so more housing developments will only be adding to an already broken rush hour service.

Pushing the infrastructure the the point of collapse (or beyond) is a really sh/tty plan, you've got to improve it before you add more problems. The rail isn't a quick thing to fix but bus corridor and greater volume is certainly more doable.

Unfortunately we haven't had and don't appear to be getting governments prioritising serious PT infrastructure projects (if I see a metro north before I croak I'd be stunned).

Idbatterim

how often are these pitches used per week?

Also even if the development were still going through the old farcical planning rules and DCC refused it, the developer could appeal to ABP, who have the final say

Gloomtastic!

Idbatterim wrote: »

how often are these pitches used per week?

Also even if the development were still going through the old farcical planning rules and DCC refused it, the developer could appeal to ABP, who have the final say

They haven't been used for a couple of years now I reckon. Football teams have been accommodated in the rest of St Annes and the rugby teams have moved to Mount Temple.

The poor geese had to fly all of 10 metres to get to alternative grazing.......

Idbatterim

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

They haven't been used for a couple of years now I reckon. Football teams have been accommodated in the rest of St Annes and the rugby teams have moved to Mount Temple.

The poor geese had to fly all of 10 metres to get to alternative grazing.......

you mean they didnt just drop out of the sky and die, because a few acres were being developed? WOW!

vriesmays

hots wrote: »

In fairness there is a hell of a lot of pitches still inside the park...

You think there will be no more building there.

baldbear

Will these properties be sold to investment firms ?

downtheroad

hots wrote: »

Pushing the infrastructure the the point of collapse (or beyond) is a really sh/tty plan, you've got to improve it before you add more problems. The rail isn't a quick thing to fix but bus corridor and greater volume is certainly more doable.

Unfortunately we haven't had and don't appear to be getting governments prioritising serious PT infrastructure projects (if I see a metro north before I croak I'd be stunned).

Anybody in this thread who may live locally and makes logical points about the infrastructure being pushed to it's absolute limits is called a NIMBY by those who don't know the area and chant build build build.

dubrov

downtheroad wrote:

Anybody in this thread who may live locally and makes logical points about the infrastructure being pushed to it's absolute limits is called a NIMBY by those who don't know the area and chant build build build.

In fairness, the infrastructure around the proposed development is well above the average for Dublin.

downtheroad

dubrov wrote: »

In fairness, the infrastructure around the proposed development is well above the average for Dublin.

Do you use it regularly yourself or are you basing that there being a dart station and 3 bus routes in the area? There is no QBC, the proposed Bus Connects plan for Howth Road is inadequate (if it even goes ahead), the darts are regularly packed by the time they arrive at Harmonstown or Killester and traffic is backed up along the Howth Road to this junction most mornings and evenings.

noodler

dubrov wrote: »

In fairness, the infrastructure around the proposed development is well above the average for Dublin.

Well above.

Served by four bus routes and a DART

As well as being close enough for a cycle to th le city centre.

IngazZagni

forgottenhills wrote: »

Ok please let me know what other development is to take place over a prime inland grazing site for Brent geese, which is a protected species, and on land which were formerly playing pitches? The argument here is that this is an ecological and amenity site of special interest on both those fronts and as such should be offered special protection. These high rise apartments should be built on sites in the city centre where they make perfect sense.

Oh give me a break. They will find an alternative. Don’t worry. You know full well that’s just scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to getting this much needed housing blocked.

High rise apartments? Are you for real? I believe it’s mostly 6 storey buildings with a small 9 storey element. FAR from high rise.

You have to understand that if you were to use the same logic for objecting to this development then you would also be against almost every other development in the city. In the midst of a housing crisis.

Yes our public transport is not fit for purpose. What’s one of the big reasons for that? The same NIMBYs blocking things like Metrolink. We the people are our own worst enemy a lot of the time.

N.Gerstmann

These an bord pleanala fast track applications do get rejected in some cases, there's no consistency to their decisions though.

www. irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/an-bord-pleanala-deals-blow-in-fast-track-planning-cases-982563.html

It's really not a good idea giving so much power to a handful of people. They can just dismiss hundreds of objections about traffic/schools/etc with "nah thats all rubbish". There was nothing wrong with the planning process already in place. They are going to make a mess of the city.

IngazZagni

N.Gerstmann wrote: »

These an bord pleanala fast track applications do get rejected in some cases, there's no consistency to their decisions though.

www. irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/an-bord-pleanala-deals-blow-in-fast-track-planning-cases-982563.html

It's really not a good idea giving so much power to a handful of people. They can just dismiss hundreds of objections about traffic/schools/etc with "nah thats all rubbish". There was nothing wrong with the planning process already in place. They are going to make a mess of the city.

Those developments linked are very different to this and clearly breached local guidelines. It’s much more than a few geese like to graze there. As if they won’t be able to find another spot elsewhere. It’s the city folks. Not some rural national park.

If DCC reject proposals it can still be appealed to ABP anyway. It just cuts out the middleman and speeds up a notoriously slow planning system. I’d argue that DCC have absolutely no expertise in deciding these things. The best way is for it to be decided by professionals whose full time job is exactly this.

OldGoat

IngazZagni wrote: »

Those developments linked are very different to this and clearly breached local guidelines. It’s much more than a few geese like to graze there. As if they won’t be able to find another spot elsewhere. It’s the city folks. Not some rural national park.

If DCC reject proposals it can still be appealed to ABP anyway. It just cuts out the middleman and speeds up a notoriously slow planning system. I’d argue that DCC have absolutely no expertise in deciding these things. The best way is for it to be decided by professionals whose full time job is exactly this.

ABP will look at the plans for the building and check it's all in regulation. DCC have to look at the broader picture, city wide infrastructure, city wide services, ongoing long term city planning. DCC have a bigger remit in scope than ABP yet ABP get the final say? Seems a bit arseaboutface to be honest.

hots

noodler wrote: »

Well above.

Served by four bus routes and a DART

As well as being close enough for a cycle to th le city centre.

Unfortunately they're literally not usable for significant rushhour periods.

Martin Lanigan

I live within walking distance of this, I am happy they got the go ahead. Might be interested in purchasing if the price is right.

Sleeper12

Martin Lanigan wrote:

I live within walking distance of this, I am happy they got the go ahead. Might be interested in purchasing if the price is right.

It won't be at the right price. Clontarf beside the park. A decent sized apartment with a view will be hitting the million mark. The more cramped apartments will be lower down without a view

dubrov

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It won't be at the right price. Clontarf beside the park. A decent sized apartment with a view will be hitting the million mark. The more cramped apartments will be lower down without a view

I guess the high price reflects the good infrastructure and amenities present in the area

bren2001

dubrov wrote: »

I guess the high price reflects the good infrastructure and amenities present in the area

Or the fact that is just Clontarf. Same amenities are available 50m on the other side of the Howth Road but properties there don't command anywhere near those prices.

noodler

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It won't be at the right price. Clontarf beside the park. A decent sized apartment with a view will be hitting the million mark. The more cramped apartments will be lower down without a view

They'll be ridiculously priced but more like 600k for a three bed tbh.

vriesmays

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It won't be at the right price. Clontarf beside the park. A decent sized apartment with a view will be hitting the million mark. The more cramped apartments will be lower down without a view

What's more important than a view is daylight. The lower floors will be shaded all day. Residents there will develop depression.

dubrov

vriesmays wrote:

What's more important than a view is daylight. The lower floors will be shaded all day. Residents there will develop depression.

vriesmays wrote:

The lower floors will be shaded all day. Residents there will develop depression.

Another item to add to the objection list, just above the geese I think

Seth Brundle

hots wrote: »

Unfortunately they're literally not usable for significant rushhour periods.

Public transport is unusable for significant rush hour periods? Is this because people are using it?
I don't understand that logic.

The biggest delay to public transport is all those who choose to drive their cars in and around the city!

Sleeper12

dubrov wrote: »

I guess the high price reflects the good infrastructure and amenities present in the area

There is good infrastructure in Ballymun. You'll get from Tallaght to the city center quicker than you can from Clontarff to the city center on the average morning. so I'd answer you tongue question as a NO. They will pay a Premium for the views & being almost sitting in Dublins second largest public park


I'm gobsmacked at the amount of posters that have an opinion of an area that they haven't a clue about but that's the nature of boards I guess.

Podge_irl

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You'll get from Tallaght to the city center quicker than you can from Clontarff to the city center on the average morning.

You would walk into town quicker from Clontarf then you would get in on public transport from Tallaght.

Sleeper12

Podge_irl wrote: »

You would walk into town quicker from Clontarf then you would get in on public transport from Tallaght.

Totally agree but you have posters posting things as fact & I don't think they are even in the country let alone Dublin Northside. I have genuinely laughed out lout at most of the comments on this thread I'm guessing we have young posters frustrated at not being able to afford rents let alone buying a home in Dublin. I've spent the last 2 hours with someone from Donaghmede but from Raheny. We went through this thread & were in kinks laughing. He's actually in favor of the development by the way but the claims here made both of us laugh.