St Annes Park Planning Application

Thelonious Monk

Idbatterim wrote: »

put your name down on the housing list if you fit the criteria, youll get luxury accomodation for a pittance if you are one of the lucky ones!

Basically the vast majority wont be able to afford to live their unless robbed blind, but ten percent will live there for as good as free

lol, it's funny because I bought a house further away from my folks and it's an ex council house, whereas some people will probably move into council dwellings in this development, it's like a flip over. I'm just delighted I have anywhere to live though the way things are now.

Anyway regarding traffic and the dart, I used to cycle from here to a job on Nassau st at a leisurely pace in 25 minutes. The Howth road is actually not bad for cycling on by Dublin standards, so if you work in the city, cycling is your only man. And hopefully when the cycle lane through Fairview and Amiens st gets completed in 2047 the ride will be even more pleasant.

Seth Brundle

hots wrote: »

Unusable because you literally can't fit on, both darts and buses, because people further up the line have already got on.

hots wrote: »

Oh and agreed on cars being a serious part of the problem, we need to get people out of them and into PT, unfortunately there's no space and more cars coming from this development...

Well your ire should be targeted towards the likes of these NIMBYists...

Community in north Dublin protest at plan to end direct bus route to city centre
Over 100 residents from Edenmore turn out to public meeting in opposition to the BusConnects plan

Plan for Dublin Bus overhaul faces major roadblocks as opposition mounts
Proposed redesign leaves some areas of Dublin without direct link to city centre

Deputy Seán Haughey & Deputy John Curran & Deputy Jack Chambers

...and there are loads more who oppose introducing a network that will have a positive impact on journey times and volumes because they might lose the stop right outside their front door or some other meaningless reason :rolleyes:

Thelonious Monk

donvito99 wrote: »

Since when did the area have "a reduced bus route" as some have mentioned here?

The bus service on the Howth Road has always been sh*te in fairness. You can wait for ever and ever even at peak times.

Sleeper12

Amirani wrote:

It's not really though.

Well yes it is.

I said the city. Someone else decided to move the goalposts by saying O Connell Street. Dublin City is a lot bigger than O Connell Street. Smithfield is the city centre. Dublin 1 and Dublin 2 are both city centre. In fact Christ Church in Dublin 8 is the city centre. Heston Station is Dublin City.

Sleeper12

Thelonious Monk wrote:

I'm from the area and still live nearby in less salubrious surrounds. As they were just football fields I didn't really care if they went ahead or not, and hopefully the brent geese (I love these fellows) will just feed on another field and keep coming back. I just wonder how much worse it'll make the traffic, and the dart at peak times. They are already a mess, so maybe if things get even worse it might encourage us to get our act together with public transport and bike lanes etc. My parents house is prob a 10 min walk from there, yet there isn't a chance in hell I would ever be able to afford whatever they put there, but that's for another thread entirely.

Well the cycle lane will be packed because they are providing 1600 bike parking spaces and only a few hundred car spaces. The mind boggles

Thelonious Monk

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well the cycle lane will be packed because they are providing 1600 bike parking spaces and only a few hundred car spaces. The mind boggles

Busy cycle lanes are grand usually. Less parking spaces might be better, less cars.

jon1981

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well the cycle lane will be packed because they are providing 1600 bike parking spaces and only a few hundred car spaces. The mind boggles

Thats pretty sensible. The less parking the better, speaking as a resident living not too far from the junction at sybill hill. I don't really object to the development, i do object to the increase in traffic. I cycle and its literally 20mins into the IFC. Cycling should be the first preference for anyone living there working in the city, even above the dart.

Thelonious Monk

They should probably encourage central developments with zero parking spaces. Would suit people like myself and foreign professionals who usually don't own cars.

jon1981

Also keep in mind, they are 6 yrs into the planning cycle with 2-3 yrs of a build ahead of them. That makes 9 yrs. They'll be keen to get their return rapidly so i expect large amounts of these to be sold off to institutional landlords.

Thelonious Monk

Sure we could be in the depths of depression by the time these get built.

Sleeper12

jon1981 wrote:

Thats pretty sensible. The less parking the better, speaking as a resident living not too far from the junction at sybill hill. I don't really object to the development, i do object to the increase in traffic. I cycle and its literally 20mins into the IFC. Cycling should be the first preference for anyone living there working in the city, even above the dart.

That's very nieve. You believe that because no extra spaces are provided that people with cars won't buy there? They'll just sell their Mercedes and BMW? That ain't going to happen. They will park on Sible Hill and Vernon Ave. People driving from all over Dublin North Side to visit the park will have no where to park.

There is no evidence at all that providing less parking = less cars on the road.

Decuc500

Decuc500 wrote: »

I don't know if you get the Dart from Raheny but the 10 minute timetable has made things worse. There are Darts only every 20 minutes from Howth/Malahide which means in morning rush hour they're jammed by Howth Junction, never mind Raheny.

There are the exact same number of Darts running in the busiest hour now than before the 10 minute timetable was brought in. One or two more carriages per train will only go so far. (In fact a lot of trains are already at max 8 carriages in length).

I get the Dart from closer to town than Raheny.
I've never been left standing on the platform because there wasn't enough room.
I haven't seen one of the longer DARTs since about last April.
By the time this is completed, we should have all those extra carriages delivered
Are people really suggesting that nowhere should be developed unless the public transport is in perfect condition?

hots

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Well your ire should be targeted towards the likes of these NIMBYists...

Community in north Dublin protest at plan to end direct bus route to city centre
Over 100 residents from Edenmore turn out to public meeting in opposition to the BusConnects plan

Plan for Dublin Bus overhaul faces major roadblocks as opposition mounts
Proposed redesign leaves some areas of Dublin without direct link to city centre

Deputy Seán Haughey & Deputy John Curran & Deputy Jack Chambers

...and there are loads more who oppose introducing a network that will have a positive impact on journey times and volumes because they might lose the stop right outside their front door or some other meaningless reason :rolleyes:

100% agree with that, almost anything slowing down the progress of improving public transport I'm against (the 27A which they're protesting for keeping is generally my daily commute to work and closest bus). And I'd love to pull out 50% of the bus stops and enforce far far more bus lanes. And then once that's done and the capacity is there, fire in as many apts as you like onto these pitches, but not before.

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I think anyone that has ever traveled from Raheny to o conell street will confirm that 23 minutes is impossible even on the quietest day of the year with no one else on the DART. That time is impossible

I've done this journey (except a ten minute walk the other way, to the IFSC) and yes, 23 minutes is how long it takes. Unless the DARTs are running slower in the last three years?

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not a public transport type of person. I drive a van & I can promise you the traffic can be bumper to bumper from Raheny all the way into the city on a bad day. No one here will say otherwise because this is fact. It's a 40 minute drive on a good day.

Ah, that explains your confusion on the DART times (as well as thinking that you can zip into town on the Luas in 20 minutes from Tallaght). I'll take your word on the 40 minute journey (I'd suggest looking at changing your routes, though, as whenever my ex-flatmate has to get a car through town, she's looking at around 35 minutes if traffic is heavy), but I guarantee you it takes far longer in a van from Tallaght to O'Connell Street.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is a glut of land to build on without sticking massive bunkers beside our best & award winning public park..

Building apartments beside an award winning park (I disagree that it's the best, but definitely one of them) is exactly what we should be doing. Even more people can enjoy the amenities that the beautiful St Anne's provides.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well yes it is.

I said the city. Someone else decided to move the goalposts by saying O Connell Street. Dublin City is a lot bigger than O Connell Street. Smithfield is the city centre. Dublin 1 and Dublin 2 are both city centre. In fact Christ Church in Dublin 8 is the city centre. Heston Station is Dublin City.

On this: Choosing O'Connell Street as the city centre isn't 'moving goalposts' as it's generally considered the centre of the city! I'm not sure why you're focusing on this point. You have to choose a particular point as a 'centre' and O'Connell Street is considered that by most people.

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote:

On this: Choosing O'Connell Street as the city centre isn't 'moving goalposts' as it's generally considered the centre of the city! I'm not sure why you're focusing on this point. You have to choose a particular point as a 'centre' and O'Connell Street is considered that by most people.

This is nonsense. Just because the GPO in on O Connell Street doesn't make it the city centre. Dublin 1 and 2 are Dublin City centre. Grafton Street is as much city centre as I Connell Street. Dame Street, Christ Church & even Thomas Street. Smithfield on the Northside is Dublin City Centre.

The moving of the goalposts was I said Tallaght to Dublin City. I suggest that you check LUAS times to Heuston Station in Dublin City. Other posters trying to point score started say Dublin City "Centre" & then O Connell Street. Another poster wants to use IFSC.

I correctly stated that public transport from Tallaght to the city is quicker than from Raheny. This is fact. I stated that the Luas from Tallaght to Dublin City (Heuston Station) takes 20 to 25 minutes. This is correct. I never claimed City centre nor O Connell Street. This was posters moving the goalposts.

None of this really has much to do with a bad planning decision in Raheny tbh.

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is nonsense. Just because the GPO in on O Connell Street doesn't make it the city centre. Dublin 1 and 2 are Dublin City centre. Grafton Street is as much city centre as I Connell Street. Dame Street, Christ Church & even Thomas Street. Smithfield on the Northside is Dublin City Centre.

The moving of the goalposts was I said Tallaght to Dublin City. I suggest that you check LUAS times to Heuston Station in Dublin City. Other posters trying to point score started say Dublin City "Centre" & then O Connell Street. Another poster wants to use IFSC.

I correctly stated that public transport from Tallaght to the city is quicker than from Raheny. This is fact. I stated that the Luas from Tallaght to Dublin City (Heuston Station) takes 20 to 25 minutes. This is correct. I never claimed City centre nor O Connell Street. This was posters moving the goalposts.

None of this really has much to do with a bad planning decision in Raheny tbh.

But you're choosing an arbitrary point (Heuston Station) in order to prove a point (and not very well: it still doesn't take anything like 20/25 minutes to get from Tallaght to Heuston, it's a 35 minute journey on the Luas during rush hour traffic, even longer on a bus - I know you're not a public transport person, so I get that the figures will be a bit skewed). It's slightly - only slight, mind - longer to get from Raheny to Heuston, but you have to keep in mind that you're getting two buses, which is always going to increase the waiting time. Choosing O'Connell Street makes more sense in trying to determine a reasonable understanding of commuting times as a) it's generally considered the centre of the city centre and b) it would involve just the one mode of transport.



That's not even taking into consideration that Heuston Station is on the 'edge' of what we would call the centre, so (conveniently for your argument) you have to cross actual city centre traffic to arrive there from Raheny, but don't if you're coming from Tallaght.


It's the same as saying Raheny to City Centre is a 12 minute journey (to Connolly Station) while Tallaght to City Centre (again, Connolly) is over an hour.



And it does have something to do with planning in Raheny, as it would make more sense to build in land available here, as the people living there would have access to great amenities such as St Anne's Park (as well as many, many other things) as well as much better & quicker ways of getting into the city 'centre' than those in Tallaght.

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote:

But you're choosing an arbitrary point (Heuston Station) in order to prove a point (and not very well: it still doesn't take anything like 20/25 minutes to get from Tallaght to Heuston, it's a 35 minute journey on the Luas during rush hour traffic, even longer on a bus - I know you're not a public transport person, so I get that the figures will be a bit skewed). It's slightly - only slight, mind - longer to get from Raheny to Heuston, but you have to keep in mind that you're getting two buses, which is always going to increase the waiting time. Choosing O'Connell Street makes more sense in trying to determine a reasonable understanding of commuting times as a) it's generally considered the centre of the city centre and b) it would involve just the one mode of transport.

No I'm not. I simply said that it's 20 to 25 minutes on the LUAS to Dublin City. No more no less. Other posters tried to twist what I said. I didn't say Dublin City centre nor O Connell Street. I do suggest that you research what is Dublin City centre because its a hell of a lot bigger than you think. It includes Christ Church and St Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin 8, St Stevens Green etc.

Again I say none of this has much to do with a bad planning decision. It's not even a final decision. It will most likely be brought back to court. They are still waiting for the court decision on the previous application. The verdict on that may well have far reaching effects on this application.

Amirani

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Luas from Tallaght to city is 20 to 25 minutes or less

I never moved any goalposts. Pick wherever in the city centre you want, above statement is still wrong.

Sweet.Science

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Well your ire should be targeted towards the likes of these NIMBYists...

Community in north Dublin protest at plan to end direct bus route to city centre
Over 100 residents from Edenmore turn out to public meeting in opposition to the BusConnects plan

Plan for Dublin Bus overhaul faces major roadblocks as opposition mounts
Proposed redesign leaves some areas of Dublin without direct link to city centre

Deputy Seán Haughey & Deputy John Curran & Deputy Jack Chambers

...and there are loads more who oppose introducing a network that will have a positive impact on journey times and volumes because they might lose the stop right outside their front door or some other meaningless reason :rolleyes:

In fairness , there is a lot of pensioners in Edenmore who need that bus route . Long live the 27A

hots

Sweet.Science wrote: »

In fairness , there is a lot of pensioners in Edenmore who need that bus route . Long live the 27A

They can use the new routes.

ixoy

The Howth Road only became a spine under Bus Connect after people objected to its service being reduced under the original plan. So kind of the opposite of NIMBYism here under the route directly affected by the development.

downtheroad

ixoy wrote: »

The Howth Road only became a spine under Bus Connect after people objected to its service being reduced under the original plan. So kind of the opposite of NIMBYism here under the route directly affected by the development.

The worst of all the spines. Doesn't cross the Liffey, dumps passengers out at Talbot St/Abbey St area, has very little bus lane between Raheny and Fairview. A serious change is needed to the H Spine plan.

expectationlost

if there are no delays when would this be completed?

garhjw

This is great news for the area and dublin in general. The NIMBYs can move on

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-will-not-seek-judicial-review-over-st-anne-s-park-apartments-1.4191676

Sweet.Science

garhjw wrote: »

This is great news for the area and dublin in general. The NIMBYs can move on

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-will-not-seek-judicial-review-over-st-anne-s-park-apartments-1.4191676

Terrible

hots

Fingers crossed at least BusConnects gets through and works well before people are in. On the bright side, more houses is always good news, I just wish there was a bit of thinking done before these ones.

downtheroad

hots wrote: »

Fingers crossed at least BusConnects gets through and works well before people are in. On the bright side, more houses is always good news, I just wish there was a bit of thinking done before these ones.

All that Bus Connects has done for the Howth Road is rename the 29A, 31 and 32 as H1, H2 and H3.

The H3 (31) will run at a frequency of every 30 minutes, as will the H2 (32). The 29A(H1) will run every 10-15 minutes.

Overall a pretty poor service along the Howth Road.

Thelonious Monk

Sweet.Science wrote: »

In fairness , there is a lot of pensioners in Edenmore who need that bus route . Long live the 27A

I'll forever be a 42B man

raheny red

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'll forever be a 42B man

28!

Seth Brundle

I always loved getting a 36DD