St Annes Park Planning Application

Gloomtastic!

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm gobsmacked at the amount of posters that have an opinion of an area that they haven't a clue about but that's the nature of boards I guess.

I’ve lived round here for 16-odd years and never had a problem with this development.

I don’t think St Paul’s gets hold of the €15 million or so they were offered for the land until planning is granted cos the place is falling down.

This was mainly led by that Labour parasite Aodhán Ó Ríordáin as a ploy to get himself re-elected. He then realised he was onto a vote winner and has objected to every other large development around here.

The park was recently surrounded by his election posters saying how he’d saved the park for them, then two weeks after the GE, planning is granted.

If you go back to the original planning application, 6 years ago. It was for 220 houses and apartments. Now, thanks to him and all the NIMBYs with their delaying tactics, there’s 3 times that amount.

Well done Clontarf. Shoot yourself in the foot! :rolleyes:

Sleeper12

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I’ve lived round here for 16-odd years and never had a problem with this development.

I don’t think St Paul’s gets hold of the €15 million or so they were offered for the land until planning is granted cos the place is falling down.

This was mainly led by that Labour parasite Aodhán Ó Ríordáin as a ploy to get himself re-elected. He then realised he was onto a vote winner and has objected to every other large development around here.

The park was recently surrounded by his election posters saying how he’d saved the park for them, then two weeks after the GE, planning is granted.

If you go back to the original planning application, 6 years ago. It was for 220 houses and apartments. Now, thanks to him and all the NIMBYs with their delaying tactics, there’s 3 times that amount.

Well done Clontarf. Shoot yourself in the foot! :rolleyes:

You claim to have been here for 15 years yet you don't realize the EVERY TD & County Councillor has voted against this development, except Richard Brutan. There is a reason that the FG guy who can top the pole but scrapped by on the 10th count He will never be elected in this area again.


Bringing Aodhán Ó Ríordáin into it when every TD has voted against it has me lost for words. You need to educate yourself on what is going on in the area you have lived in for the last 15 years. Yes Aodhán Ó Ríordáin is a plonker but you have inserted his name here for all the wrong reasons.



You sort of prove my point. This tread is full of blow ins or people that have never seen Raheny outside of the internet. In case you are wondering myself & my friend would be doubled over laughing had you posted this earlier today

Gloomtastic!

^ He was first in line......

dubrov

Sleeper12 wrote:

Totally agree but you have posters posting things as fact....

How can you agree with someone that pointed out one of your comments as a complete fallacy?

To say the commute from Clontarf to that from Tallaght to the city centre is ridiculous.

You can guess all you want about other poster's backgrounds but it doesn't add any weight to your arguments.

Sleeper12

dubrov wrote: »

How can you agree with someone that pointed out one of your comments as a complete fallacy?

To say the commute from Clontarf to that from Tallaght to the city centre is ridiculous.

You can guess all you want about other poster's backgrounds but it doesn't add any weight to your arguments.

Another keyboard warrior. I suggest you try both journeys & then come back And post. We were talking about public transport. The poster I agreed with pointed out that if you had to walk then Raheny is quicker. It's closer to the city so I'd be a right thick to argue. Public transport from Tallaght to the city is quicker than from Raheny

Spanish Eyes

All politics is local. And most people who don't live in the area couldn't care less about this development. (but might post a view).

But if similar was in their own area, well you know the rest.

Nimby is right.

dubrov

Sleeper12 wrote:

Another keyboard warrior. I suggest you try both journeys & then come back And post. We were talking about public transport. The poster I agreed with pointed out that if you had to walk then Raheny is quicker. It's closer to the city so I'd be a right thick to argue. Public transport from Tallaght to the city is quicker than from Raheny

The poster was trying to highlight how incorrect your comment was. Walking, jogging, cycling or using a bus would be nearly twice as long from Tallaght as Raheny.

Also, check your posting style. It seems anyone who disagrees with your point of view is called a keyboard warrior. Its a public discussion forum so expect some people to disagree with you.

I can see opinions are pretty entrenched so I think I'll step out of the thread at this point

Sleeper12

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

All politics is local. And most people who don't live in the area couldn't care less about this development. (but might post a view).

But if similar was in their own area, well you know the rest.

Nimby is right.

I disagree in this particular case. Fundraising for the last court case came from all over Dublin Nortside. From Miles & miles around. People come from all over Dublin to visit St Annes Park. I'd hazzard a guess that more than half (possible three quatars) of the people in the park at the weekends aren't from Raheny at all




Everyone is entitled to an opinion but There are so many people commenting on this thread, not because they know the ares, but because they want to be able to rent or buy a house SOMEWHERE in Ireland. I totally get where they are coming from but we don't need to have developments that effect our public parks or change ore Medieval city. We have a development plan that covers all of this. Just because FG ignored a growing issue for 5 or 6 years doesn't mean we have to destroy our city. New government will hopefully reverse the damage done over the last six years by our government

Sleeper12

dubrov wrote: »

The poster was trying to highlight how incorrect your comment was. Walking, jogging, cycling or using a bus would be nearly twice as long from Tallaght as Raheny.

Also, check your posting style. It seems anyone who disagrees with your point of view is called a keyboard warrior. Its a public discussion forum so expect some people to disagree with you.

I can see opinions are pretty entrenched so I think I'll step out of the thread at this point

Please point out every time I have used " keyboard Warrior" in the last 8 years. Why would you make up this rubbish without at least looking up my posting history???


Everyone has & is entitled to an opinion. The problem is that this thread is full of opinions from people that don't know the area or the issue. I doubt most live in Ireland let alone Dublin based on the nonsense posted. Jasus a poster tried blame it all on Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (a muppet) who had very little to do with the campaign. I get young people are angry but we have city development plans for a reason. These plans plan for the next 30, 40 & 50 years. Just because the last government took it's eye off the ball doesn't mean we have to sell off our childreds futures.

Gloomtastic!

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Please point out every time I have used " keyboard Warrior" in the last 8 years. Why would you make up this rubbish without at least looking up my posting history???


Everyone has & is entitled to an opinion. The problem is that this thread is full of opinions from people that don't know the area or the issue. I doubt most live in Ireland let alone Dublin based on the nonsense posted. Jasus a poster tried blame it all on Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (a muppet) who had very little to do with the campaign. I get young people are angry but we have city development plans for a reason. These plans plan for the next 30, 40 & 50 years. Just because the last government took it's eye off the ball doesn't mean we have to sell off our childreds futures.

Why are you trying to deny Ó Ríordan’s involvement in this? If you lived round here, you would know he’s been the vocal point for the whole campaign. The public meetings, the posters, he’s been all over it.

What’s your relationship with him?

Sleeper12

Gloomtastic! wrote:

Why are you trying to deny Ó Ríordan’s involvement in this? If you lived round here, you would know he’s been the vocal point for the whole campaign. The public meetings, the posters, he’s been all over it.

I'm Raheny all my life. I never said that he didn't try to get involved but if you attended any meetings or were part of the court proceedings then you'd know that there were /are much more prominent politicians involved in this. As I said he's a muppet but anyone quoting him is really just reading nonsense here on boards or twitter. He isn't anywhere near the most prominent politician in this cause. Some politicians lost their seats & are still more involved in this than him.

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Another keyboard warrior. I suggest you try both journeys & then come back And post. We were talking about public transport. The poster I agreed with pointed out that if you had to walk then Raheny is quicker. It's closer to the city so I'd be a right thick to argue. Public transport from Tallaght to the city is quicker than from Raheny

How long do you reckon it would take to get into the IFSC from Tallaght for 9 on a week day? Around an hour, I would think. 15 minutes on the dart from Raheny was how long it took me when I lived there.

Niallof9

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is good infrastructure in Ballymun. You'll get from Tallaght to the city center quicker than you can from Clontarff to the city center on the average morning. so I'd answer you tongue question as a NO. They will pay a Premium for the views & being almost sitting in Dublins second largest public park


I'm gobsmacked at the amount of posters that have an opinion of an area that they haven't a clue about but that's the nature of boards I guess.

What are you talking about. Lived in All Saints Road. You can cycle, bus it or get dart. It takes 50 ish minutes from tallaght. This isn’t the park it’s the school grounds.

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote:

How long do you reckon it would take to get into the IFSC from Tallaght for 9 on a week day? Around an hour, I would think. 15 minutes on the dart from Raheny was how long it took me when I lived there.

Again you obviously don't live close to the area. You assume that you will get a spot on the DART in Raheny, Killester or Clontarf in rush hour in the morning. We don't have enough carriages. The platforms at the stations were extended a number of years ago to accommodate extra carriages but demand has exceeded this in the 15 or 20 years since. The truth is that for many walking from Clontarf would be quicker

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Again you obviously don't live close to the area. You assume that you will get a spot on the DART in Raheny, Killester or Clontarf in rush hour in the morning. We don't have enough carriages. The platforms at the stations were extended a number of years ago to accommodate extra carriages but demand has exceeded this in the 15 or 20 years since. The truth is that for many walking from Clontarf would be quicker

I did live in the area three years ago, and never had a problem getting the DART, though (getting a seat was a different matter). Is it the case that people are being stranded in Raheny at the moment?


Regardless, the original point is whether it takes longer to get to town from Raheny or Tallaght. At a conservative estimate, it's an hour from Tallaght. How long does it take you to get into town from Raheny during rush hour?

Edit: just saw that the original point was Clontarf or Tallaght. It's a 40 minute walk into town from Clontarf! That's quicker than whatever public transport you're getting from Tallaght!

Sleeper12

Niallof9 wrote:

What are you talking about. Lived in All Saints Road. You can cycle, bus it or get dart. It takes 50 ish minutes from tallaght. This isn’t the park it’s the school grounds.

I never suggested that it's the park. I've already pointed out that this land was sold by DCC 6 to 8 years before it became a public park. It never ever was part of the park. It was a land locked piece of land and DCC were rubbing their hands together when someone wanted to pay for the almost worthless land locked bit of land in the early 50s. People need to remember that there was a glut of land all over the area. There was no Foxfield, Kilbarrack, Donaghmede, Maywoood, Bettyglen, Avondale. Fields, fields and more fields. The religious order didn't get a special deal on this. No special conditions & it wasn't gifted to them. This does not mean that I agree with the development but I try to keep things factual. Another fairy story many locals like to believe is that Lord & lady Aurelian "gifted" the estate to the people of raheny. They did no such thing. They left it to a nephew (I think). A Bishop. He couldn't afford the upkeep and it fell into disrepair. DCC put a compulsory purchase order on it and forced him to sell. People love fairy stories but they don't help the cause at all

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote:

Edit: just saw that the original point was Clontarf or Tallaght. It's a 40 minute walk into town from Clontarf! That's quicker than whatever public transport you're getting from Tallaght!

Luas from Tallaght to city is 20 to 25 minutes or less. This is peak times. 30 minutes is a long journey on the luas

Do you actually live in Dublin?

ixoy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Again you obviously don't live close to the area. You assume that you will get a spot on the DART in Raheny, Killester or Clontarf in rush hour in the morning. We don't have enough carriages.

I've been using Killester for ten years now and it's getting worse (and noticeably so around the timetable shift). If I want to be sure of getting *on* the DART and not be left behind, I need to get a train before 8.

As to walking into town from Clontarf - 40 minutes if you want to just reach the IFSC and live close to the edge (Clontarf stretches quite far north). I did the walk for years and I am a fast walker.

Seth Brundle

jcullen222 wrote: »

This is ridiculous. The entire park area should be prevented from development.

It. Is. Not. Part. Of. The. Park!

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Luas from Tallaght to city is 20 to 25 minutes or less. This is peak times. 30 minutes is a long journey on the luas

Do you actually live in Dublin?

It's really not, have had the misfortune to get the Luas from Tallaght (and not during rush hour either) so I know you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I'm guessing you're getting confused and thinking Dundrum-O'Connell Street, on the Luas which is around 25 minutes.

How long does it take to get from Clontarf to the city centre in rush hour traffic?

Edit: Journey Planner app has the Luas from Tallaght to O'Connell street as being 42 minutes (station-to-station, so unless you live in the Square, it's going to be a lot longer than that). Clontarf to the same spot is 19 minutes, bus or DART.

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote: »

It's really not, have had the misfortune to get the Luas from Tallaght (and not during rush hour either) so I know you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I'm guessing you're getting confused and thinking Dundrum-O'Connell Street, on the Luas which is around 25 minutes.

How long does it take to get from Clontarf to the city centre in rush hour traffic?

Edit: Journey Planner app has the Luas from Tallaght to O'Connell street as being 42 minutes (station-to-station, so unless you live in the Square, it's going to be a lot longer than that). Clontarf to the same spot is 19 minutes, bus or DART.

Who said anything about O Connell Street??? Dublin city center is Dublin 1 & 2. Ok so DART users "if" they can get on a DART in rush hour have a 12/13 minute walk from connelly station to get to O Conell Street.

How long does it take to get from Clontarf to the city centre in rush hour traffic?

This is the big question. First off the proposed development is in Raheny & not Clontarf. I have sat in traffic for an hour in rush hour traffic on a bad day getting to O connell Street from Raheny. Fourty minutes on a good day. Rush hour traffic can be bumper to bumper from the Howth side of Raheny village all the way to the city center.



Something people who genuinely know the area will factor in is the fact that Fairview is being reduced to one lane to allow for new cycle lane. The Howth road isn't wide enough for a bus lane into Fairview. When they reduce Fairview to a single lane it could add another 30 minutes to a car journey to O Connell Street at peak times. This is before you add another 600 homes from this development, another 100 homes from the old garden center in Raheny & the coast road development on the coast road in Raheny. Massive developements planned for Howth & all of these cars will have to travel through Raheny, Clontarf & fairview. I can't remember how many homes have just been completed in the Old St Pauls swimming pool site but it well exceeds 100 homes.

Achasanai

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Who said anything about O Connell Street??? Dublin city center is Dublin 1 & 2. Ok so DART users "if" they can get on a DART in rush hour have a 12/13 minute walk from connelly station to get to O Conell Street.

Well, you have to choose a point, and O'Connell Street (in Dublin 1, btw) is usually considered the centre of Dublin. And even taking in that 10 minute walk from Connolly, it's still quicker than Clontarf.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is the big question. First off the proposed development is in Raheny & not Clontarf. I have sat in traffic for an hour in rush hour traffic on a bad day getting to O connell Street from Raheny. Fourty minutes on a good day. Rush hour traffic can be bumper to bumper from the Howth side of Raheny village all the way to the city center.

Well, you were talking about Clontarf earlier so that's why I brought that up. The planner suggests a 23 minute journey to O'Connell Street (that's including that 10 minute walk) so still a hell of a lot quicker than Tallaght.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Something people who genuinely know the area will factor in is the fact that Fairview is being reduced to one lane to allow for new cycle lane. The Howth road isn't wide enough for a bus lane into Fairview. When they reduce Fairview to a single lane it could add another 30 minutes to a car journey to O Connell Street at peak times. This is before you add another 600 homes from this development, another 100 homes from the old garden center in Raheny & the coast road development on the coast road in Raheny. Massive developements planned for Howth & all of these cars will have to travel through Raheny, Clontarf & fairview. I can't remember how many homes have just been completed in the Old St Pauls swimming pool site but it well exceeds 100 homes.

So, now we're talking about car journeys? Again, Tallaght is going to be far, far worse for any kind of journey in to town. It's a further distance and involves more junctions. Where the 'junctions' are lessened (in the case of light rail) the Luas is pretty much on the roads from Hueston Station.


There are a fair amount of developments being built in Tallaght and if the new bus corridors project goes ahead, you'll see similar narrowing of space for cars on the southside.



As I said, I've lived in Raheny (albeit some three years ago, but I still have friends living there who travel in to town every day and don't speak of the horror stories you mention) and I've on occasion had to travel from Tallaght in to town. Raheny over Tallaght every day of the week.

Sleeper12

Achasanai wrote: »

Well, you have to choose a point, and O'Connell Street (in Dublin 1, btw) is usually considered the centre of Dublin. And even taking in that 10 minute walk from Connolly, it's still quicker than Clontarf.






Well, you were talking about Clontarf earlier so that's why I brought that up. The planner suggests a 23 minute journey to O'Connell Street (that's including that 10 minute walk) so still a hell of a lot quicker than Tallaght.





So, now we're talking about car journeys? Again, Tallaght is going to be far, far worse for any kind of journey in to town. It's a further distance and involves more junctions. Where the 'junctions' are lessened (in the case of light rail) the Luas is pretty much on the roads from Hueston Station.


There are a fair amount of developments being built in Tallaght and if the new bus corridors project goes ahead, you'll see similar narrowing of space for cars on the southside.



As I said, I've lived in Raheny (albeit some three years ago, but I still have friends living there who travel in to town every day and don't speak of the horror stories you mention) and I've on occasion had to travel from Tallaght in to town. Raheny over Tallaght every day of the week.

Well, you were talking about Clontarf earlier so that's why I brought that up. The planner suggests a 23 minute journey to O'Connell Street (that's including that 10 minute walk) so still a hell of a lot quicker than Tallaght.

I think anyone that has ever traveled from Raheny to o conell street will confirm that 23 minutes is impossible even on the quietest day of the year with no one else on the DART. That time is impossible

There are a fair amount of developments being built in Tallaght and if the new bus corridors project goes ahead, you'll see similar narrowing of space for cars on the southside.

There is no other road of this size & taking the amount of cars that fairview strand does being cut from two to one lane.

As I said, I've lived in Raheny (albeit some three years ago, but I still have friends living there who travel in to town every day and don't speak of the horror stories you mention) and I've on occasion had to travel from Tallaght in to town. Raheny over Tallaght every day of the week

I'm not a public transport type of person. I drive a van & I can promise you the traffic can be bumper to bumper from Raheny all the way into the city on a bad day. No one here will say otherwise because this is fact. It's a 40 minute drive on a good day.




There is a glut of land to build on without sticking massive bunkers beside our best & award winning public park..

hots

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Public transport is unusable for significant rush hour periods? Is this because people are using it?
I don't understand that logic.

The biggest delay to public transport is all those who choose to drive their cars in and around the city!

Unusable because you literally can't fit on, both darts and buses, because people further up the line have already got on.

hots

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Public transport is unusable for significant rush hour periods? Is this because people are using it?
I don't understand that logic.

The biggest delay to public transport is all those who choose to drive their cars in and around the city!

Oh and agreed on cars being a serious part of the problem, we need to get people out of them and into PT, unfortunately there's no space and more cars coming from this development...

Sleeper12

hots wrote:

Oh and agreed on cars being a serious part of the problem, we need to get people out of them and into PT, unfortunately there's no space and more cars coming from this development...

I had to laugh at the planning. Spaces for 1600 bikes but only a few hundred car spaces. The penthouses will be very high end. I'd be expecting at least two flash cars per penthouse. Its nice that they will have somewhere to park their weekend bikes too.

Very well thought out planning

Amirani

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Luas from Tallaght to city is 20 to 25 minutes or less. This is peak times. 30 minutes is a long journey on the luas

Do you actually live in Dublin?

It's not really though.

Thelonious Monk

I'm from the area and still live nearby in less salubrious surrounds. As they were just football fields I didn't really care if they went ahead or not, and hopefully the brent geese (I love these fellows) will just feed on another field and keep coming back.
I just wonder how much worse it'll make the traffic, and the dart at peak times. They are already a mess, so maybe if things get even worse it might encourage us to get our act together with public transport and bike lanes etc.
My parents house is prob a 10 min walk from there, yet there isn't a chance in hell I would ever be able to afford whatever they put there, but that's for another thread entirely.

Idbatterim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm from the area and still live nearby in less salubrious surrounds. As they were just football fields I didn't really care if they went ahead or not, and hopefully the brent geese (I love these fellows) will just feed on another field and keep coming back.
I just wonder how much worse it'll make the traffic, and the dart at peak times. They are already a mess, so maybe if things get even worse it might encourage us to get our act together with public transport and bike lanes etc.
My parents house is prob a 10 min walk from there, yet there isn't a chance in hell I would ever be able to afford whatever they put there, but that's for another thread entirely.

put your name down on the housing list if you fit the criteria, youll get luxury accomodation for a pittance if you are one of the lucky ones!

Basically the vast majority wont be able to afford to live their unless robbed blind, but ten percent will live there for as good as free

Idbatterim

all those new irish rail carriages will be deliverd, before this development is complete...