St Annes Park Planning Application

tricky D

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just wondered who is paying for all the court cases?

The locals raise their own funds. Unfortunately there are no rich benfactors mainly regular folk with modest contributions. If won, most costs get recovered, for the next round.

Jinglejangle69

tricky D wrote: »

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=children+without+school+places


30 in Cork just 2 weeks ago.

Hold on now.

Kids with special needs is a whole different ball game.

Spanish Eyes

tricky D wrote: »

The locals raise their own funds. Unfortunately there are no rich benfactors mainly regular folk with modest contributions. If won, most costs get recovered, for the next round.

I have no idea, but given the area I would have thought that there may be a few high end donations to the cause.

This kind of court stuff would not happen in other places though, in reality.

People are trying to live, pay mortgages and childcare and commuting costs and could not contemplate the costs of such an objection through the courts.

Sleeper12

tricky D wrote:

So that is around 1000 units (without any figure for the Tetrarch property which could easily be another 500) where only 200 is the development plan.

All of this in such a small area. I live in Dublin 5 so have no skin in the game for Howth but even I can see how over developed the area has become

Spanish Eyes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All of this in such a small area. I live in Dublin 5 so have no skin in the game for Howth but even I can see how over developed the area has become

It is life in the Capital. I have had to deal with it too. We all should. For the sake of everyone.

Otherwise we need to move out to the country areas.

But unless we can afford it, the high end areas will always be protected, primarily because they don't really have places to build on anymore now. (apart from the Golf Clubs). Look up the Grange, Stackstown, Elm Park, and so on.

tricky D

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Hold on now.

Kids with special needs is a whole different ball game.

The 30 kids in Cork are not special needs.

There are more of the same linked on the 2nd page of results.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I have no idea, but given the area I would have thought that there may be a few high end donations to the cause.

Nope, no high end contributions. Remember the rich didn't get rich by putting their hands in their pockets, or how ever the saying goes.

Sleeper12

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Just wondered who is paying for all the court cases?

Same as last time I'd imagine. Thousands of people raised the money & clubbed together to fund the case. The case they won I should add. Planning shouldn't have been granted.

Sleeper12

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I have no idea, but given the area I would have thought that there may be a few high end donations to the cause.

You really haven't a clue about the area at all. I assume you live in Cork or somewhere far away. Money was raised from all over Dublin. People tra from all over Dublin to use the park, beach etc. I know people from Cabra, Finglas, Coolock etc helped raise money. You do realise that it's not just Clontarf residents objecting to this development beside the park

Spanish Eyes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Same as last time I'd imagine. Thousands of people raised the money & clubbed together to fund the case. The case they won I should add. Planning shouldn't have been granted.

OK maybe not, but we shall see what happens going forward.

A year or two ago it was NEVER going to happen either. I reckon it will be granted and built upon with conditions for the Geese perhaps.

Jinglejangle69

tricky D wrote: »

The 30 kids in Cork are not special needs.

There are more of the same linked on the 2nd page of results.

Nope, no high end contributions. Remember the rich didn't get rich by putting their hands in their pockets, or how ever the saying goes.

"Nearly 30 children living in a town in County Cork have been warned that there MAY be no place for them in secondary school next year"

So my point still stands.

And your attempts to bend the truth to suit your NIMBY crusade falls flat.

Sleeper12

Spanish Eyes wrote:

A year or two ago it was NEVER going to happen either. I reckon it will be granted and built upon with conditions for the Geese perhaps.

If they win this case there is a strong chance that the flawed fast track system might be outlawed & if they reapply they will have to deal with the planning department.

FG have destroyed Dublin for generations to follow

Spanish Eyes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You really haven't a clue about the area at all. I assume you live in Cork or somewhere far away. Money was raised from all over Dublin. People tra from all over Dublin to use the park, beach etc. I know people from Cabra, Finglas, Coolock etc helped raise money. You do realise that it's not just Clontarf residents objecting to this development beside the park

Well it certainly is not those from Cork anyway. They are as far away from this as Mars now and couldn't care less about St Anne's. All politics is local. Remember

Idbatterim

listen you hypocrites, you are so concerned about birds and the wildlife? knock down your houses in that area, which were once green fields believe it or not and let nature take over... Practice what you preach!

Idbatterim

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If they win this case there is a strong chance that the flawed fast track system might be outlawed & if they reapply they will have to deal with the planning department.

FG have destroyed Dublin for generations to follow

flawed fast track? whats the flaw for you? it doesnt take ten years to get permission for some watered down project?

tricky D

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

"Nearly 30 children living in a town in County Cork have been warned that there MAY be no place for them in secondary school next year"

So my point still stands.

And your attempts to bend the truth to suit your NIMBY crusade falls flat.

Right now they have no places. And the other 96 in Carrickmacross and Skerries have no places.


You said 'As if there has ever been ONE child' yet a basic search has it up to 126.



Also what about the 500 special needs, are they not in greater need of appropriate education infrastructure.

tricky D

Idbatterim wrote: »

listen you hypocrites, you are so concerned about birds and the wildlife? knock down your houses in that area, which were once green fields believe it or not and let nature take over... Practice what you preach!

Going to the High Court is very expensive so battles need to be chosen wisely ie. the legal matter that is most likely to get a win. In the case of St Annes the Birds Directive was the best route.



There are still plenty other good reasons why it is bad planning.


As for flaws, there are plenty listed in the thread.

Idbatterim

tricky D wrote: »

Going to the High Court is very expensive so battles need to be chosen wisely ie. the legal matter that is most likely to get a win. In the case of St Annes the Birds Directive was the best route.



There are still plenty other good reasons why it is bad planning.


As for flaws, there are plenty listed in the thread.

please give me a good reason, why we should build 650 homes?

Holly13

Idbatterim wrote: »

listen you hypocrites, you are so concerned about birds and the wildlife? knock down your houses in that area, which were once green fields believe it or not and let nature take over... Practice what you preach!

People come from all over North Dublin and beyond to enjoy St. Anne’s Park and the seafront along Clontarf and Raheny. These amenities are not just used by locals.

Idbatterim

Holly13 wrote: »

People come from all over North Dublin and beyond to enjoy St. Anne’s Park and the seafront along Clontarf and Raheny. These amenities are not just used by locals.

this land is fenced off and private. Are they tresspassing ? can they not enjoy whatever acreage the current park is or would the few acres take away from their experience? :rolleyes:

all the beaches and coast road walk there isnt good enough?

tricky D

Idbatterim wrote: »

please give me a good reason, why we should build 650 homes?

Because the infrastructure is not adequate on many fronts. It is already in the thread if you care to read.


That said, some development in St Annes would be fine with me, just not the Marlet/Crekav arrogant stuff them in and stack them high and to hell with the consequences attitude. Obviously you are lucky not to have come across this developer.

Holly13

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well it certainly is not those from Cork anyway. They are as far away from this as Mars now and couldn't care less about St Anne's. All politics is local. Remember

Have you ever been to St. Anne’s Park? It is a green space for. Northsiders in general, not just people who live in Dublin 3 and 5.

Idbatterim

tricky D wrote: »

Because the infrastructure is not adequate on many fronts. It is already in the thread if you care to read.


That said, some development in St Annes would be fine with me, just not the Marlet/Crekav arrogant stuff them in and stack them high and to hell with the consequences attitude. Obviously you are lucky not to have come across this developer.

hang on , ABP the highest planning body in the land have approved this, so they are wrong?

Idbatterim

Holly13 wrote: »

Have you ever been to St. Anne’s Park? It is a green space for. Northsiders in general, not just people who live in Dublin 3 and 5.

dont the northsiders also have the largest urban park in europe in phoenix park? botanic gardens etc?

Holly13

Idbatterim wrote: »

this land is fenced off and private. Are they tresspassing ? can they not enjoy whatever acreage the current park is or would the few acres take away from their experience? :rolleyes:

all the beaches and coast road walk there isnt good enough?

Is this development going to be car free? If not then yes, it will affect the rest of the park

Holly13

Idbatterim wrote: »

dont the northsiders also have the largest urban park in europe in phoenix park? botanic gardens etc?

That’s Northwest Dublin, very awkward to get to if you live in Northeast Dublin

Spanish Eyes

Oh dear, here we go again. Who has the best park or whatever.

I think the Phoenix Park shades it by a country mile! And Mickelleen lives there too as does the American Ambassador, and it is amazing.

tricky D

Idbatterim wrote: »

hang on , ABP the highest planning body in the land have approved this, so they are wrong?

Yes.



You do realise that the SHD legislation has removed many sensible requirements for developments over 100 units, removed the appeals process, can now ignore established planning principles and orders, apply urban rules inappropriately in suburban locations, ignore legal requirements, are unable to see basic issues in applications due to removal of skilled planners in favour of political appointees/cronies.


Issues in ABP and in development in general have been with us or decades and little has ever changed for the better.

Spanish Eyes

Holly13 wrote: »

Have you ever been to St. Anne’s Park? It is a green space for. Northsiders in general, not just people who live in Dublin 3 and 5.

Nice, I know it well. Lived in Foxfield Park for a few years in my youth as a lodger.

The sea walk was much more interesting to me at the time. But there ya go.

dubrov

Holly13 wrote:

People come from all over North Dublin and beyond to enjoy St. Anne’s Park and the seafront along Clontarf and Raheny. These amenities are not just used by locals.

I go to St Anne's all the time. This development will have zero impact on my enjoyment of the park.

Let's be honest here,. Objections will be from locals only apart from those who go from cause to cause constantly objecting

Sleeper12

Idbatterim wrote: »

flawed fast track? whats the flaw for you? it doesnt take ten years to get permission for some watered down project?

You don't see that several courts have overturned decisions made by the fast track process as flawed? You don't see that in now cost's 100s of thousands of euro to bring these decisions to court to prove them unlawful or incorrect decisions?

adjective
adjective: flawed


h having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.