St Annes Park Planning Application

Spanish Eyes

odyssey06 wrote: »

No, as has been pointed out on this thread multiple times people welcomed development in Howth until they saw the scale of it. Just because housing needs to be built doesn't mean we should ignore the capacity of the area to absorb it.

Are there any grounds under which you would be willing to concede that an objection could be valid?
Remember that DCC lodged a formal objection to this development i.e. not on some technicality that could be addressed, but to its fundamental nature.

If don't seem willing to grant any valid grounds for objections, in the current housing climate - so let the authorities be honest about it and ban all objections in RPZ zones.

Personally I'd let the Planning people decide and get on with it. But no. That will never work for the locals. Always a moan or an objection because their lifestyles or house values will be interrupted. Works in high end areas.

But hopefully St. Anne's development will get the go ahead now. And Howth also.

That Howth site is a disgrace right now, but I take your point that it may be over developed. What can you do though?

Other areas on the periphery don't seem to get a look in regarding developments in their areas. As I said, it is location based. And always will be.

Spanish Eyes

tricky D wrote: »

Ah stop. How many times does it have to mentioned that good development is welcomed.

Ah stop yourself. I am sure every other area out in the Gulags is wonderful planning and transport wise too.

jrosen

At a time when developers are allowing less and less green space within developments I cant understand why anyone would object to an all weather field.
Its wonderful to see kids out playing, being involved in team sports. Its a huge positive in their lives and something that brings the wider communities together.

odyssey06

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Look, housing will be built in Coolock, Clongriffin, Finglas, Sallynoggin, Clondlalkin, Adamstown and so on.
Never in Howth or St Anne's or Dalkey, Killiney etc. It's a no brainer.
I'm talking new developments here.

Anywhere you put them in Dublin City it is going to have to come at the expense of something else - parkland, golf courses, playing fields, sports clubs, redevelopment of pubs, hotels, factories, cinemas etc

The Old Shieling Hotel - redeveloped
The Strand Bowl - redeveloped
The Dollymout House - redeveloped
etc etc

Spanish Eyes

downtheroad wrote: »

I didn't say not to build it everywhere else apart from close to me though. Just pointing out that the area is under a lot of strain and that this proposed development should come with investment to the infrastructure to the local area to support the addition to the local population.

There isn't a part of Dublin that is not under strain at the moment either.

But some areas get the buildings, others don't, and you don't need me to tell you that places like Killiney, Dalkey, Howth, Malahide etc.have big voices and pockets for objections.

It really is about the area.

odyssey06

jrosen wrote: »

At a time when developers are allowing less and less green space within developments I cant understand why anyone would object to an all weather field.
Its wonderful to see kids out playing, being involved in team sports. Its a huge positive in their lives and something that brings the wider communities together.

Do you realise what it is replacing?

odyssey06

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Personally I'd let the Planning people decide and get on with it. But no. That will never work for the locals. Always a moan or an objection because their lifestyles or house values will be interrupted. Works in high end areas.

Your post speaks for itself.

Spanish Eyes

odyssey06 wrote: »

Anywhere you put them in Dublin City it is going to have to come at the expense of something else - parkland, golf courses, playing fields, sports clubs, redevelopment of pubs, hotels, factories, cinemas etc

The Old Shieling Hotel - redeveloped
The Strand Bowl - redeveloped
The Dollymout House - redeveloped
etc etc

Sorry now, nothing that you mentioned there involved parkland, golf courses, playing fields, etc.

Bet the golf courses will never be touched. Too many judges and so on are members. Just look at Elm Park Golf Club. No housing there ever. Wonder why?

Spanish Eyes

odyssey06 wrote: »

Your post speaks for itself.

OK. I want a riposte, but it ain't coming anywhere near me.

downtheroad

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There isn't a part of Dublin that is not under strain at the moment either.

This is the problem. Too much rushed building as a quick fix to the supposed housing crisis without investing in the area and upgrading the local infrastructure. And it doesn't matter if that is in Killiney, Clontarf or Ballymun. If additional properties are built then infrastructure has to be put in beforehand or the area will be under strain.

Building new developments with the excuse that other areas are over developed and over subscribed is not the answer.

Sleeper12

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Personally I'd let the Planning people decide and get on with it. But no. That will never work for the locals. Always a moan or an objection because their lifestyles or house values will be interrupted. Works in high end areas.

We all want the planning people to decide but FG took it away from DCC planning department. In fairness DCC planning are totally against this. It goes totally against the development plan. Every single councillor & all TDs (except Richard Bruton) are against it & have objected to it.

The planning people aren't allowed to make the decision on the flawed fast track process.

Spanish Eyes

downtheroad wrote: »

This is the problem. Too much rushed building as a quick fix to the supposed housing crisis without investing in the area and upgrading the local infrastructure. And it doesn't matter if that is in Killiney, Clontarf or Ballymun. If additional properties are built then infrastructure has to be put in beforehand or the area will be under strain.

Building new developments with the excuse that other areas are over developed and over subscribed is not the answer.

Quick fixes or so they thought, places like Adamstown and elsewhere obviously have a long way to go yet.

Ah but sure it's West Dublin so who cares.

ixoy

There's another development also about to kick off on St. Brigid's Road for about 100 more dwellings which will also make use of the same transport lines of DART and Howth Road. It was initially refused but I've noticed activity there recently and letters on the DCC website seem to indicate it's moving on again.

It'll all add to the same creaking infrastructure that can barely hold up in the area.

Spanish Eyes

ixoy wrote: »

There's another development also about to kick off on St. Brigid's Road for about 100 more dwellings which will also make use of the same transport lines of DART and Howth Road. It was initially refused but I've noticed activity there recently and letters on the DCC website seem to indicate it's moving on again.

It'll all add to the same creaking infrastructure that can barely hold up in the area.

Ah many of the recipients won't need the DART, they will be single parent families with three + kids and a humungous sense of entitlement and no job either.

I posted this for a reaction from the usual cohort. But let's wait and see.

downtheroad

ixoy wrote: »

There's another development also about to kick off on St. Brigid's Road for about 100 more dwellings which will also make use of the same transport lines of DART and Howth Road. It was initially refused but I've noticed activity there recently and letters on the DCC website seem to indicate it's moving on again.

It'll all add to the same creaking infrastructure that can barely hold up in the area.

Yeah that site has been cleared and fenced off so that's definitely underway.

Irish Rail can't even put safe bicycle storage at the Dart stations so how they expect to deal with hundreds more daily passengers boarding at Harmonstown and Killester is anyone's guess.

downtheroad

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah many of the recipients won't need the DART, they will be single parent families with three + kids and a humungous sense of entitlement and no job either.

I posted this for a reaction from the usual cohort. But let's wait and see.

657 apartments in the development, so there will likely be over 1,000 adults living in them and that is a low estimate. If 50% of those adults work in the city centre it is 500 more people using the already packed darts and buses or else a few hundred more cars on the packed roads into the city.

Sleeper12

odyssey06 wrote:

The Old Shieling Hotel - redeveloped The Strand Bowl - redeveloped The Dollymout House - redeveloped etc etc

You can really add to that list if you want to. Howth Lodge Hotel, St Lawrence Hotel already developed. Bailey Court in the middle of Howth village is going to be a massive development. Deer park has been sold & again a truly massive development is planned.

Posters claiming that there is no development in these areas don't know Dublin at all. Howth probably has one of biggest percentage of development in Dublin in recent times especially with Bailey Court and Deer Park.

tricky D

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Ah many of the recipients won't need the DART, they will be single parent families with three + kids and a humungous sense of entitlement and no job either.

I posted this for a reaction from the usual cohort. But let's wait and see.

Mod hat on: such deliberate goading will end your contributions to this thread.

Sleeper12

odyssey06 wrote:

The Old Shieling Hotel - redeveloped The Strand Bowl - redeveloped The Dollymout House - redeveloped etc etc

You can really add to that list if you want to. Howth Lodge Hotel, St Lawrence Hotel already developed. Bailey Court in the middle of Howth village is going to be a massive development. Deer park has been sold & again a truly massive development is planned.

Posters claiming that there is no development in these areas don't know Dublin at all. Howth probably has one of biggest percentage of development in Dublin in recent times especially with Bailey Court and Deer Park.

dubrov

Why do much love for DCC?
The councillors have continually screamed for more housing while constantly blocking developments near their constituents.

It has gotten so ridiculous that large developers just wanted them to reject a planning application quickly so they could speak to ABP. The fast track process just cuts out the initial nonsense

ixoy

There's definitely a whiff of reverse-snobbery from some posters here and elsewhere (/r/Ireland on reddit for example): "You guys have a nice place, now you'll have your standards lowered haha".

You can point out valid concerns - lack of schooling, saturated capacity for public
transportation, but it just gets ignored (not addressed) largely with a "Well we have it worse".

downtheroad

Can a mod change St Anns to St Anne's in the title? Most of the complainers on here probably don't even realise the incorrect spelling of the park's name.

tricky D

downtheroad wrote: »

Can a mod change St Anns to St Anne's in the title? Most of the complainers on here probably don't even realise the incorrect spelling of the park's name.

Done.

dubrov

downtheroad wrote:

Can a mod change St Anns to St Anne's in the title? Most of the complainers on here probably don't even realise the incorrect spelling of the park's name.

Yes because spelling should be taken into account when approving planning. applications

Jinglejangle69

I'm absolutely delighted this got the green light.

People moaning there isn't enough school places!?

As if there has ever been ONE child in this country who didn't get into a school because there was no spaces!!

Snobbery at its finest.

NIMBYISM at its finest.

Spanish Eyes

Before I get a ban here which is looking likely, would anyone think that objections to a development would be more successful in so called high end areas or not? Just wondered.

Sleeper12

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

I'm absolutely delighted this got the green light.

First round is over. I've no doubt it will be in court again. In fact the previous one is still in front of the court.

tricky D

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You can really add to that list if you want to. Howth Lodge Hotel, St Lawrence Hotel already developed. Bailey Court in the middle of Howth village is going to be a massive development. Deer park has been sold & again a truly massive development is planned.

Posters claiming that there is no development in these areas don't know Dublin at all. Howth probably has one of biggest percentage of development in Dublin in recent times especially with Bailey Court and Deer Park.

Santa Sabina: 96 units
Mansions beside Howth Hill Lodge: 20

Baily Court/Edros: 160
Techcrete: 500+
Deer Park has been sold in 2 parcels. One between Corr Castle and Howth Castle and looks like ~200 units possible.
Tetrarch have Howth Castle, Golf club and enivrons with ~450 acres. Post gold course development there will be ~200 acres left over so available for development.


So that is around 1000 units (without any figure for the Tetrarch property which could easily be another 500) where only 200 is the development plan.

Spanish Eyes

Sleeper12 wrote: »

First round is over. I've no doubt it will be in court again. In fact the previous one is still in front of the court.

Just wondered who is paying for all the court cases?

tricky D

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

As if there has ever been ONE child in this country who didn't get into a school because there was no spaces!!

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=children+without+school+places


30 in Cork just 2 weeks ago.