Evolve - 4v1 from the makers of L4D (multi format)

Kirby

Shiminay wrote: »

I think the general reaction of "GTFO" with all this DLC has come back to bite(!) them in the ass, I see little more than apathy towards this game as a result because people are remembering that they didn't actually like L4D as much as they thought they did

I'm not sorry, shoddy anti-consumer practices need to be treated with the contempt they deserve and companies that engage in such activities need to go the way of the dodo.

You need to be careful around here with talk like that. Criticising companies practices gets the fanboys out. They'll be chasing you with their "thanks" shaped pitchforks in no time.

Sand

I don't follow the DLC criticism.

If you don't think the DLC is good value for money, then don't buy it. If the very concept of DLC offends your sensibilities, then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to do so. Gaming is a business, they are trying to make a very good living from it so the outrage-by-rote at DLC bemuses me. DLC has been a reality for a decade at least, and every game launch brings out the same chorus of complaints. Its time to get over it. It isn't the 1980s anymore.

It personally leaves me cold so I wont be forking out for it. Maybe later, in a sale, after I'm sure I enjoy the core game and want a bit of variety. Drama resolved.

2Mad2BeMad

Sand wrote: »

I don't follow the DLC criticism.

If you don't think the DLC is good value for money, then don't buy it. If the very concept of DLC offends your sensibilities, then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to do so. Gaming is a business, they are trying to make a very good living from it so the outrage-by-rote at DLC bemuses me. DLC has been a reality for a decade at least, and every game launch brings out the same chorus of complaints. Its time to get over it. It isn't the 1980s anymore.

It personally leaves me cold so I wont be forking out for it. Maybe later, in a sale, after I'm sure I enjoy the core game and want a bit of variety. Drama resolved.

I think the part you're missing is the dlc which sometimes ( has been happening quite alot recently ) been shipped out on the same day as the game itself

so basically, the company is breaking the game up for extra money

I use to think of dlc as extra gameplay/maps down the line as in like 6-8months after the game was shipped. But shipping it with the game, is just greedy imo.

Making dlc down the line if they think their game done well and thought the fanbase was/is still their, thats a different story.

I mean probably one of the best examples of this is Dark Souls.

Was shipped, lots of people played it, good few returned it to being to hard. But the fanbase of the game is incredible and eveyone loves the game, eventually months after the game is released, they decided to make dlc for it. They added to the story/game lore rather then taking abit of the story away to be sold as dlc when it was first shipped.
Companys that release dlc with the game itself unless it comes free with it, show how greedy they are and it always puts me off buying the dlc even if it might be great.

Dair76

I don't have a problem with DLC. I have a problem with Evolve's DLC.

At the moment, there are 5 monsters planned/announced. Three of them come with the base game. Two are either DLC or pre-order bonuses. 40% of the game's playable monsters! Haven't worked out the hunter ratio, but I'm sure it's equally stingy.

Anyway, we can choose not to buy the DLC (thanks for letting us know this Sand). But we can also choose not to buy Evolve at all (at least until it comes down in price). Many are going this route.

Antar Bolaeisk

Yeah I must say the DLC plans have really taken the lustre off this and I shall be taking a wait and see approach before considering purchasing it in the future.

Sand

DLC on launch day isn't a problem. If you want to buy and play Evolve, no problem. You can do that. Those extra characters and monsters will still be in your basic game, you will still play with and against them, you just wont be able to select them.

They're doing the exact same as every business - try to extract every last bit of profit for their work. They owe it to themselves, their families and their investors in what is a capricious, inconsistent market where only Call of Dooty XX and Fifa XX can reliably deliver sales year in, year out. Nobody would be donating money to them for charitable purposes if they built a poorly received game and they were all forced on to the dole. People need to get over the sense of entitlement that is soaked through the gaming community - they don't owe you anything other than a quality product for your quality euros.

If you buy a phone plan, there is optional extras like extra data that the company could give you for the basic price, but instead force you to pay for. If you buy a car, there is optional extras the car dealership charge you for. If you buy an insurance plan, an airplane ticket, a hotel room there is optional....you get the idea?

The idea of DLC is perfectly good business, and its not going to go away. The Evolve DLC in no way diminishes the gameplay or enjoyment of the core game users, but it does offer additional benefits to those who choose to purchase it. I'm not one of them - I'm perfectly happy with the core game for now, and I'll invest further if the core game is enjoyable.

Kirby

Sand wrote: »

If you buy a phone plan, there is optional extras like extra data that the company could give you for the basic price, but instead force you to pay for. If you buy a car, there is optional extras the car dealership charge you for. If you buy an insurance plan, an airplane ticket, a hotel room there is optional....you get the idea?

That's not an accurate analogy. What you are describing, is like having a standard radio in your car, but the dealership can give you a better aftermarket radio for extra. That's fine. But that's not what day one DLC is.

The DLC version of this, is paying for the car which includes a radio in it...... but you need to pay extra to turn it on. The radio was built 6 months ago along with everything else in the car and is included in the price. The radio is already in your car. Why should you pay an extra fee for the power to switch it on?

Sand

Kirby wrote: »

That's not an accurate analogy. What you are describing, is like having a standard radio in your car, but the dealership can give you a better aftermarket radio for extra. That's fine. But that's not what day one DLC is.

That's exactly what day one DLC is. A fancier radio vs. a standard radio. The standard one will do everything you expect of a radio, the fancier one will cost you more and not really do anything groundbreaking but hey, there is a market for it.

Kirby

No see, you couldn't be more wrong. Day 1 DLC is not a fancier radio. It's the same radio that was built 6 months ago along with everything else in the car. You've already paid for it and it's being sectioned off behind a paywall.

DLC is great. Day 1 DLC is bullsh*t and if consumers stopped swallowing it, they wouldn't pedal it. It's not new content....it's content they've already created.

Riesen_Meal

Watching someone streaming this now on Live From PlayStation and my interest has deflated a fair bit I must say....

Generic Dreadhead

Sand wrote: »

DLC on launch day isn't a problem

For maybe the likes of a character outfit or some really unessential stuff (like the Borderlands 2 guns you got that were useless 45mins later) fair enough.

But this is a large section of the content as Kirby already pointed out.

If you're willing to pay €50 (or whatever) for a 60% of a game and feel glad you can pay more to complete the other 40% it's safe to say you've swallowed the DLC marketing pie whole and are far to accepting of the ole "gaming is a business" mantra.

I hate gaming entitlement more than most people, it makes me rage, but this is not entitlement.

The fact that what Evolve has done is getting so much vocal attention for all the wrong reasons in an age where youtube/metacritic etc are peoples sources of info on releases is a testament to how much they have screwed the pooch.

This game will not be a commercial masterpiece/success, now it won't be a total flop either maybe, but it wouldn't be a franchise we'll be waxing lyrical about in 5 years time in anticipation of Evolve 3

To summarise, this was a Day 1 purchase for me (cause I knew I could strong arm 4 other of our Destiny players to give it a bash together), now I'm not buying it until some sort of "here's all the $hite that was meant to be in the Day version" version

Fieldog wrote: »

Watching someone streaming this now on Live From PlayStation and my interest has deflated a fair bit I must say....

Why so because? If the DLC wasn't already an issue with me I get a feeling there is a lack of content to not warrant a full retail price.
Killing 3 monsters over and over seems a bit weak

tok9

Cormac... wrote: »

If you're willing to pay €50 (or whatever) for a 60% of a game and feel glad you can pay more to complete the other 40% it's safe to say you've swallowed the DLC marketing pie whole and are far to accepting of the ole "gaming is a business" mantra.

Hold on a second. I'm not one to defend DLC but I think the big issue that actually happened here is the publisher and the message. It was messaged terribly.

Now to say that one is buying 60% of a game is a huge disrespect to the developer. None of the DLC is available on the launch day. It's not ready. Having planned for DLC is not a bad thing and someone who plays Destiny should know more than most about the lack of content in a game.

Evolve comes with 3 monsters, 12 Hunters and 12 maps and a few modes. Any additional maps and modes are free. The additional content being planned is 2 Monsters and a few hunters (can't remember the exact number)

Firstly how does that account for 40% of the game in this mathematic equation?

Evolve's DLC is actually a hell of a lot better than the majority. They haven't excluded any of the player base. Everyone gets the maps and everyone can play with or against the new characters.

Again I'll look at Destiny as I know it's a bit of a hot topic and a game you regularly play. Paying 20 euro for a few more missions and a raid. I've now been completely excluded from that content. There are even things I can't buy off people who are in the retail copy. That's 20 euro for what was 3 missions, a strike and a raid? And even less content for an Xbox user. That sounds pretty miserable and the same will happen again for this next pack. Along with dividing the player's since I can't even pick up the best equipment anymore. Essentially creating a pay to win environment.

Jesus that was long.

What I'm basically saying is that Evolve's DLC is actually a good way of doing it. They have just messaged it really badly. Another good example of DLC done well is Driveclub just for another example.

froog

Sand wrote: »

I don't follow the DLC criticism.

If you don't think the DLC is good value for money, then don't buy it. If the very concept of DLC offends your sensibilities, then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing anyone to do so. Gaming is a business, they are trying to make a very good living from it so the outrage-by-rote at DLC bemuses me. DLC has been a reality for a decade at least, and every game launch brings out the same chorus of complaints. Its time to get over it. It isn't the 1980s anymore.

It personally leaves me cold so I wont be forking out for it. Maybe later, in a sale, after I'm sure I enjoy the core game and want a bit of variety. Drama resolved.

the question must really be - has a full game been broken up into different pieces, together which costs much more than a regular game used to? or is the main game a decent "full" size and the dlc is "extra". in many cases nowadays it's the former. seems that way with evolve as well.

money that used to get you a full game now only gets you half a game.

Generic Dreadhead

tok9 wrote: »

Hold on a second. I'm not one to defend DLC but I think the big issue that actually happened here is the publisher and the message. It was messaged terribly.

Agreed

Again I'll look at Destiny as I know it's a bit of a hot topic and a game you regularly play.

I'm not here to talk about Destiny. I'm as annoyed as anyone else about what Activision did siphoning off a portion of the launch day pie. One the positive side it is allowing them time to tinker the DLC based on feedback. The DLC itself if you just play it once is bad value. If you are ok with playing each aspect of it again several times over the weeks with a group doing your weekly bits, it's not so bad. But being an avid Destiny player I would never pitch the base game or DLC as good value for money. If you have 5 friends you can pick up the Limited edition (base, plus both DLCs, etc) for €60. But anyway......

What I'm basically saying is that Evolve's DLC is actually a good way of doing it.

Not in my opinion. There is very little there as a base game as is. It's essentially TitanFall but 4v1 and offering less monsters does not sit well with me. I'm not saying it's going to be rubbish, and maybe 40% is an exaggeration, and maybe the DLC is actually indeed not quiet ready and is not really "Day 1" DLC but.....

They have just messaged it really badly

Really, really, really badly. I have a €50 Gamestop Gift Card I wanted to use to get this game Day 1.... I was all onboard the Evolve hype train. Now I'm more than ambivilent.... It's left a certain Watchdogsness feel in the air.

Shiminay

tok9 wrote: »

What I'm basically saying is that Evolve's DLC is actually a good way of doing it. They have just messaged it really badly. Another good example of DLC done well is Driveclub just for another example.

I... I really can't believe I'm, reading this. You are a marketing person's wet dream.

Building a game to have the most DLC of any game from the ground up is fine. No problem with that at all. The biggest games in the world do that - LoL and DotA for example. But you don't need to pay for those games, they're FREE.

If Evolve wasn't trying to gouge every penny it could (and I'm not saying they shouldn't, they are a business and this is how Capitalism works) people might feel differently. But it's a really shtty thing to be doing to your customers. "Here's our new AAA game with it's AAA price attached. Here's the rest of the content for more $$$" It's the worst of the standard "pay up front model" *AND* the F2P "here's the base game, pay for extras" model. Consumers have every right to be offended at being fked over with that just as much as consumers have a right to support it.

I think the majority of people here are suggesting they won't be supporting this shttiness because it's not the sort of thing we want to see any more of.

wes

As someone who loved Lead 4 Dead, I was going to buy this until, I started to hear about the DLC nonsense. I have gotten use the whole game and season pass thing, and if I buy a game, I tend to get the edition that includes the season pass, but with Evolve, the whole thing is really confusing and it seems like its not value for money at all.

Now, maybe when there is a Game of the Year edition with everything in it, I may reconsider, or maybe Valve will give us Left 4 Dead 3, without a crazy DLC model.

salamanca22

I really don't understand why their is so much hate over the DLC. Any content that is finished will be in the game at release. Everything else has yet to be developed. This will cost money for the team and hence they will charge for it. You get every new map for free and every new mode they release. You can still play with people who have the DLC even if you do not have it. I think people are going a bit overboard with the hate.

Dayum

I was really looking forward to this game before all this DLC clusterfuukkk...

After this, I wouldn't even buy the game if they were going to give me the 60 quid...

It's a matter of principle at this point. These companies need to wake up and realise that this is not the way to go. They've already lost a purchase from me....how many others have been totally turned off by all this confusing BS...

What a mess and they've nobody else to blame but themselves...lol...morons.

tok9

Shiminay wrote: »

I... I really can't believe I'm, reading this. You are a marketing person's wet dream.

I seriously doubt that. I only buy dlc when I really want it or it's on discount. Good example of these would be I haven't bought the DLC of Alien or Driveclub but I'll be tempted to (Alien in particular as it's half price) when I see it at a good price.

I also have no intention of buying the DLC to Evolve currently.

Shiminay wrote: »

If Evolve wasn't trying to gouge every penny it could (and I'm not saying they shouldn't, they are a business and this is how Capitalism works) people might feel differently. But it's a really shtty thing to be doing to your customers. "Here's our new AAA game with it's AAA price attached. Here's the rest of the content for more $$$" It's the worst of the standard "pay up front model" *AND* the F2P "here's the base game, pay for extras" model. Consumers have every right to be offended at being fked over with that just as much as consumers have a right to support it.

But what you're saying here is incorrect. The DLC is offering extra characters. If you don't want to buy the game or DLC that is fine but this is a far better DLC plan than the majority I've seen.

The majority of other MP games focus on offering map packs which ruin the community every single time. With this even people who don't buy the DLC can still play all the modes and all the maps with people who do and don't have the DLC.

Are you seriously suggesting that is a worse practice than offering new maps and modes? Really?

Riesen_Meal

Cormac... wrote: »

Why so because? If the DLC wasn't already an issue with me I get a feeling there is a lack of content to not warrant a full retail price.
Killing 3 monsters over and over seems a bit weak

Played the Alpha and Beta, expected L4D and didn't get it, nothing to do with the DLC plans - the game just didn't grab me all that much....

Benzino

I'll echo what others have said. This was a day 1 purchase for me as I'm a huge fan of L4D (seriously what is with Valve and producing games with 3 in there name).

I wasn't following this game as I prefer to see the content fresh, but after reading this thread and reading up on the DLC I gotta say I'm out too. Seems like too much hassle reading up on what you get, what you don't get etc. And there are only 3 monsters in the base game? Doesn't appear to be value for money there.

After this, I can see this game going cheap soon after, or even go up on PS+ in a year. Although at that stage might not be many people still playing it. Shame, was looking forward to it.

tok9

Cormac... wrote: »

Not in my opinion. There is very little there as a base game as is. It's essentially TitanFall but 4v1 and offering less monsters does not sit well with me. I'm not saying it's going to be rubbish, and maybe 40% is an exaggeration, and maybe the DLC is actually indeed not quiet ready and is not really "Day 1" DLC but.....

That's fair enough. I would honestly be extremely disappointed in Turtle Rock if they had the DLC finished and just waited to release. Working amongst software I would genuinely be very surprised if that was the case however I imagine they are working on it.

A lot will tell with time regarding how good Turtle Rock are with free 'dlc'. But of course we have no guarantee as to the number of maps or modes they might add.

For me personally, I enjoyed this game. Really liked the beta, I really like the idea and imo the DLC is absolutely the right approach.

Is the Base game too expensive. Not for me personally.

Is the DLC too expensive. Yes it is for me. I'll pick it up if I really enjoy the game and it's discounted. Simple.

Lone Stone

hmm was really interested in this followed its development for a while, i would get this on a console to play with my friends who dont have pc's but given the price of ps4 games no way in hell im spending 70+euro on this just for them to turn around and release a crap tone of dlc which il have to pay for, given it has no single player / story driven campaign and is just multiplier i cant justify the price.

Sand

I think people are labouring under some serious misinformation regarding the Evolve DLC.

From the Evolve site they list the everything that is going to be in the Day 1 Game:

12 Unique Maps – each with a variety of modifiers that can drastically affect each match
12 Hunters (Abe, Bucket, Cabot, Caira, Griffin, Hank, Hyde, Lazarus, Maggie, Markov, Parnell and Val)
3 Monsters (Goliath, Kraken and Wraith)
4 Game Modes (Defend, Hunt, Nest and Rescue)
Evacuation campaign
Full offline solo-play

There’s nothing worse than getting left out because you didn’t pony up extra cash for a different bundle. Phil recently vowed on IGN that you will never have to pay for additional maps that get built. “First thing we said was that we can’t break the community up, so all of our maps will be free. We never want anyone to get booted off a server because they haven’t bought something.”

We have also confirmed that additional Monsters and Hunters are currently in development. “Even if you don’t buy them and your buddy does, that’s cool,” explains Phil. “You won’t be able to play as those characters, but you will certainly be able to play with those.” So, if you choose not to buy the fourth Monster, you still run the risk of having to fight against it in multiplayer. The same goes for additional Hunters

Everyone will be able to fight against all monsters, including the DLC monsters. They will be able to fight with all characters, including the DLC characters.

The only thing you are paying for with the DLC is the option to play *as* those extra monsters and characters. When they are available.

Cormac... wrote: »

If you're willing to pay €50 (or whatever) for a 60% of a game and feel glad you can pay more to complete the other 40% it's safe to say you've swallowed the DLC marketing pie whole and are far to accepting of the ole "gaming is a business" mantra.

Well, it certainly isn't a charity. Look at Looking Glass Studios to see that.

I'm happy paying 50 euro for 100% of a game, and I'm happy paying a bit extra for some extra content if I like the game. Evolve is giving me that option: DLC is aimed at people who don't mind paying more for more. It doesn't negatively impact the game of the person who doesn't want the DLC in the slightest.

The idea that the content would exist regardless is at best unproven. Likely it wouldn't exist and the developers would simply move on to the next paying job as fast as the first game was completed to the initial design.

super_furry

They're basically applying a free-to-play sales model to a full price game. Nosgoth on the PC (free-to-play, great game - check it out) operates a similar system where you can pay to unlock characters but also allows you to just unlock them by levelling up in game.

jumbobreakfast

At least it's not pay to win though since having a DLC character on your team could help you and playing against a DLC monster will just be a different challenge or you can leave and find another lobby.

TerrorFirmer

I loved L4D but I played Evolve for about 90 minutes....and I just don't get it. Is it just me? I just found it repetitive and boring....

Lone Stone

super_furry wrote: »

They're basically applying a free-to-play sales model to a full price game. Nosgoth on the PC (free-to-play, great game - check it out) operates a similar system where you can pay to unlock characters but also allows you to just unlock them by levelling up in game.

i would buy it if that was all crossed out and they sold me full game for 50-60 euro, im actually considering selling my ps4 because im so sick of these over priced games.

super_furry

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I loved L4D but I played Evolve for about 90 minutes....and I just don't get it. Is it just me? I just found it repetitive and boring....

Same here. From my time with the beta it just seemed like the kind of game where you simply had to have a party of friends to play with to get the most out of it. Even playing with randoms who know what they're doing seemed dull and it had none of the L4D drop-in, drop-out fun.

Dayum

I really wish people would stop putting Evolve in the same sentence with Valve...

Lord Gaben has less to do with this heap of shite no more than Enda Kenny does...