Garda Ombudsman "under high-tech surveillance"

Happyman42

The British never managed to sort out endemic corruption in their police force, we are at least beginning to recognise it.

timmy4u2

Happyman42 wrote: »

The British never managed to sort out endemic corruption in their police force, we are at least beginning to recognise it.

The british police force are not afraid to prosecute their own and that has been very clear for a long time.
The recent offloading of penalty points with the resultant investigation and custodial sentence is but just one small example.
Where Chris Hume denied it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/8501054/Chris-Huhne-denies-wifes-driving-penalty-points-claims.html
And the outcome

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0307/374975-mps-wife-convicted-of-lying-over-points/

And the result
http://www.thejournal.ie/chris-huhne-jailed-britain-speeding-penalty-points-828099-Mar2013/

And they are not afraid to take on the crooked judges

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/453987/Judge-faces-trial-over-Huhne-s-points-swap

Even the Queen was outraged and took action.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/queen-strips-cb-honour-from-vicky-pryce-the-exwife-jailed-over-swopping-speeding-penalty-points-with-chris-huhne-8738391.html

So how do we handle such issues in the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND where we castigate other countries for not abiding by their laws

http://www.thejournal.ie/andrew-doyle-td-wife-penalty-points-861278-Apr2013/

And our TD's attitude to breaking the law and perverting the course of justice.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/just-a-matter-of-lifting-phone-to-get-points-quashed-227634.html

And our Chief of Police's intent to prevent the course of justice from taking its course.
We all know what that is called.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/callinan-may-take-legal-action-to-halt-pac-quizzing-whistleblowers-29943933.html

And our Chief of Police again demanding that he get the box of files that showed one senior Garda had penalty points squashed as he was going to Court....only problem about that is there was no court held on the day.
Another Garda had them squashed because he was "on duty" when in fact he was on sicl leave.
And of course our Chief of Police was stopped himself speeding in a family Renault.He never stated outright that he was on duty but minced his words, not known what was in fact known about his little trip in Finglas.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/commissioner-had-penalty-points-erased-while-on-duty-29207109.html.

Who was sacked? The journalist who knocked on his door about the incident.
Sacked by Stephen Rae one time editor of the Garda Review and we all know who held clinics in Raes pub in Kerry.
Now to Rae's penalty points

http://soundmigration.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/stephen-raes-penalty-points-and-the-silence-of-irish-media/

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/penalty-points-evidence-box-very-disturbing-pacs-mcguinness-620591.html

So they wanted the GSOC to investigate the penalty points debacle
But how could they. They are complicit

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/six-garda-watchdog-staff-had-their-penalty-points-wiped-29959182.html

And this brings us to the daddy of them all in the squashed speeding debacle and from where the rot began.. THE BULL O'DONOGHUE.
We cannot refer to it as a penalty points issue as there were no penalty points at the time
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-refuses-to-comment-on-odonoghue-controversy-427071.html
It would scare you to read what was and still is being done to thecwhistleblower in that case.

Dont talk to me about the lack of British Justice as if we are better here or that we are about to sort it out.
Give me the present British Justice regime anyday

I pasted all the links to show that everything stated is in the public domain thus they cannot say they knew nothing about it.

Happyman42

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Dont talk to me about the lack of British Justice as if we are better here or that we are about to sort it out.
Give me the present British Justice regime anyday

.

I didn't talk about 'how we are better here', merely pointed out to Godge that corruption always was and is 'endemic' in the British police. Despite many prosecutions, it has never been sorted out.
Have a chat with the Birmingham Six or Guilford 4 about how 'qucik' they are to correct their transgressions.

timmy4u2

Happyman42 wrote: »

I didn't talk about 'how we are better here', merely pointed out to Godge that corruption always was and is 'endemic' in the British police. Despite many prosecutions, it has never been sorted out.
Have a chat with the Birmingham Six or Guilford 4 about how 'qucik' they are to correct their transgressions.

They corrected them and I did say the current justice system and that is a totally different ball game.
Likewise here you could say ask Nicky Kelly or Nora Wall or...or...or
BTW did you read and digest all those links in a few minutes...whew

Happyman42

timmy4u2 wrote: »

They corrected them and I did say the current justice system and that is a totally different ball game.
Likewise here you could say ask Nicky Kelly or Nora Wall or...or...or
BTW did you read and digest all those links in a few minutes...whew

Who was comparing?
I pointed out to Godge that the British set-up is no less corrupt than our own.
Nice to know you prefer the British system, a lot of your fellow countrymen and women would disagree entirely based on actual experience of it, not to mention many communities within it.

tomdempsey200

shatter would be out on his ear by now in the UK

timmy4u2

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

shatter would be out on his ear by now in the UK

Not only would he be out on his ear but he would be facing corruption charges as would those who are complicit
The whistleblowers would be treated in a manner appropriate to the bravery they showed in exposing the rot.

timmy4u2

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who was comparing?
I pointed out to Godge that the British set-up is no less corrupt than our own.
Nice to know you prefer the British system, a lot of your fellow countrymen and women would disagree entirely based on actual experience of it, not to mention many communities within it.

This is not a thread about how corrupt the british system is.
It is about the corruption here at home.
We have enough to worry about what is happening here without going back to the Birmingham six. I am sure there is a thread about them someplace so I am not goingvto argue along those lines.

Happyman42

timmy4u2 wrote: »

This is not a thread about how corrupt the british system is.

Maybe you should be telling the person who posted all this research. :rolleyes:

The british police force are not afraid to prosecute their own and that has been very clear for a long time.
The recent offloading of penalty points with the resultant investigation and custodial sentence is but just one small example.
Where Chris Hume denied it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ts-claims.html
And the outcome

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0307/374...g-over-points/

And the result
http://www.thejournal.ie/chris-huhne...28099-Mar2013/

And they are not afraid to take on the crooked judges

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/453...-s-points-swap

Even the Queen was outraged and took action.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-8738391.html

So how do we handle such issues in the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND where we castigate other countries for not abiding by their laws

http://www.thejournal.ie/andrew-doyl...61278-Apr2013/

And our TD's attitude to breaking the law and perverting the course of justice.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...ed-227634.html

And our Chief of Police's intent to prevent the course of justice from taking its course.
We all know what that is called.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29943933.html

And our Chief of Police again demanding that he get the box of files that showed one senior Garda had penalty points squashed as he was going to Court....only problem about that is there was no court held on the day.
Another Garda had them squashed because he was "on duty" when in fact he was on sicl leave.
And of course our Chief of Police was stopped himself speeding in a family Renault.He never stated outright that he was on duty but minced his words, not known what was in fact known about his little trip in Finglas.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29207109.html.

Who was sacked? The journalist who knocked on his door about the incident.
Sacked by Stephen Rae one time editor of the Garda Review and we all know who held clinics in Raes pub in Kerry.
Now to Rae's penalty points

http://soundmigration.wordpress.com/...f-irish-media/

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/p...ss-620591.html

So they wanted the GSOC to investigate the penalty points debacle
But how could they. They are complicit

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29959182.html

And this brings us to the daddy of them all in the squashed speeding debacle and from where the rot began.. THE BULL O'DONOGHUE.
We cannot refer to it as a penalty points issue as there were no penalty points at the time
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/t...sy-427071.html
It would scare you to read what was and still is being done to thecwhistleblower in that case.

Dont talk to me about the lack of British Justice as if we are better here or that we are about to sort it out.
Give me the present British Justice regime anyday

I pasted all the links to show that everything stated is in the public domain thus they cannot say they knew nothing about it.

I was just replying to a point raised by Godge.

Phoebas

timmy4u2 wrote: »

This is not a thread about how corrupt the british system is.
It is about the corruption here at home.

It used to be about GSOC being bugged. In another few days it might be about the Ukraine or something.

renegademaster

Phoebas wrote: »

It used to be about GSOC being bugged. In another few days it might be about the Ukraine or something.

why not, it's all connected

timmy4u2

Phoebas wrote: »

It used to be about GSOC being bugged. In another few days it might be about the Ukraine or something.

It was about unauthorised surviellance on the GSOC and that spells subterfuge and implies deceit and the implication that the state, or organs of the state, may be involved. That in turn impinges on the credibility of the state, or organs of the state, thus the exposure of situations where the states credibility is questioned.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

I was just replying to a point raised by Godge.

Well, given the way you responded, I don't think you understood my point.

I wasn't comparing the corruptness or otherwise of the police forces. (In fact in the two cases currently in the public domain, there is no definitive evidence of any corruptness).

What I am saying is that the roots of this country, in its anti-Britishness, have given us a disrespect for the workings of the law and the standing of the State. From the fact that nobody paid tax in the 1970s unless you were PAYE, to the Ansbacher accounts, to the vast amounts of money collected in tax amnesties, to the feathering of their own nests by FF politicians for years, to the support given to terrorists in the North etc., this country has been immature and corrupt like a collection of gombeen men and women.

It still goes on today. We have constituencies electing the likes of Gerry Adams and Michael Lowry to the Dail, both men, who for different reasons, are unfit to sit in Dail Eireann. Both men, one a terrorist leader and the other a corrupt politician would be long gone from politics in Britain.

If we hadn't had a culture that fostered the "republican" ideals of the terrorists and had instead a culture that fostered real republicanism, we would have been much better off.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Well, given the way you responded, I don't think you understood my point.

I wasn't comparing the corruptness or otherwise of the police forces. (In fact in the two cases currently in the public domain, there is no definitive evidence of any corruptness).

What I am saying is that the roots of this country, in its anti-Britishness, have given us a disrespect for the workings of the law and the standing of the State. From the fact that nobody paid tax in the 1970s unless you were PAYE, to the Ansbacher accounts, to the vast amounts of money collected in tax amnesties, to the feathering of their own nests by FF politicians for years, to the support given to terrorists in the North etc., this country has been immature and corrupt like a collection of gombeen men and women.

It still goes on today. We have constituencies electing the likes of Gerry Adams and Michael Lowry to the Dail, both men, who for different reasons, are unfit to sit in Dail Eireann. Both men, one a terrorist leader and the other a corrupt politician would be long gone from politics in Britain.

If we hadn't had a culture that fostered the "republican" ideals of the terrorists and had instead a culture that fostered real republicanism, we would have been much better off.

Just

tayto lover

Boards would crash if we were to name every corrupt Irish politician of the last 25 years.
It makes me laugh to even listen to Martin, Wallace, O'Dea, Ming etc etc complaining. Justice like charity begins at home. People in glass houses etc etc etc.

We need to scrap political parties as they are now and start again.
I couldn't vote for any of those people who are currently in the Dail because they know about crimes and criminals in their own party but are prepared to turn a blind eye. They are only outraged now because they can score political points.

I would say that in the end Shatter, Callinan and maybe a few others might fall on their swords but anyone who thinks this type of scandal will cease needs their head examined.

hatrickpatrick

For those who insist that the wi-fi device connecting to a nearby public Bitbuzz network is proof that it wasn't being hacked or tampered with, can I direct you to John Mooney's latest article in this week's Sunday Times, in which he talks about the fact that on their second visit, Verrimus themselves found that they were under surveillance, and that when they attempted to take a closer look at the wi-fi device in question (a video conferencing system according to Mooney), the device was wiped/formatted remotely, while they were in the process of examining it?

I'm sure the Godges and Shatters of this world can conjure up another perfectly innocent explanation for this, of course, but I'd advise people to read the article, since it has garnered significantly less coverage than the previous two due to the understandable media focus on this new situation around Connolly and further whistleblowers, etc.

The business with the wi-fi device is looking less and less like an innocent, random aspect of this whole story.

From the article:

A video conferencing device in the commission's boardroom had also been compromised after it was discovered it repeatedly connected to an external wi-fi network, say sources. The device was "wiped" remotely when those involved in the surveillance realised their activities had been detected.
Screen grabs of all data flows on the device were taken earlier, and revealed it was communicating with an external network. It is suspected spyware may have been uploaded to the device, enabling it to record private meetings, which were then transmitted via a wi-fi connection in a local coffee shop. It is thought that hackers may have used the existing wi-fi system to eavesdrop on GSOC by disabling the video device's security features and password.

And more, regarding Verrimus themselves being targeted:

Verrimus, the British security company hired by the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) to mount a counter-surveillance operation, was itself targeted when visiting Dublin last October, according to sources. Verrimus advices GSOC that whomever was involved in the spying affair had detected the company's presence the previous month.

...

Security sources say operatives from Verrimus were the likely target of a device used to intercept movile telephone calls during a second sweep of the GSOC building by the security consultancy last October. The firm detected a UK 3G network operating in the immediate vicinity of the GSOC offices on Abbey Street in Dublin. The signals it emitted - known as Sign - were those asociated with an IMSI catcher, a device that disables the security features on mobile phones, making them vulnerable to interception. The device, which was described as "government level technology", was targeting British registered mobile phones when it was detected.

And finally, an interesting snippet regarding Rits:

Verrimus had already subjected its own findings to an independent technology company to ensure they were correct before submitting a report to GSOC. It appears Shatter was unaware of this.

Quite surprised this isn't getting more coverage, but then understandably this whistleblowing business has completely overtaken the GSOC story. On the other hand, this piles more evidence on to the bugging scandal and answers some of the suggestions that there were innocent explanations for everything. The wi-fi thing in particular, as I said in a previous thread if one wanted to hack into such a device, a public wi-fi network like Bitbuzz would be perfect as it would be almost impossible to track down an individual connected to it - in fact, depending on the network you mightn't even have to be in the shop to use it, you could be parked outside and using your laptop in the car (my college wi-fi is easily strong enough to use half way down the street from the building, so it depends on the network). The fact that the device's memory was erased remotely, during an integrity test, seems incredible insidious to me.

How long now before someone suggests that Verrimus are incompetent enough to have formatted the device themselves without meaning to, and somehow mistaken this for an external command? :rolleyes:

sopretty

When are we to expect the results of the investigation being undertaken?

Hootanany

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For those who insist that the wi-fi device connecting to a nearby public Bitbuzz network is proof that it wasn't being hacked or tampered with, can I direct you to John Mooney's latest article in this week's Sunday Times, in which he talks about the fact that on their second visit, Verrimus themselves found that they were under surveillance, and that when they attempted to take a closer look at the wi-fi device in question (a video conferencing system according to Mooney), the device was wiped/formatted remotely, while they were in the process of examining it?

I'm sure the Godges and Shatters of this world can conjure up another perfectly innocent explanation for this, of course, but I'd advise people to read the article, since it has garnered significantly less coverage than the previous two due to the understandable media focus on this new situation around Connolly and further whistleblowers, etc.

The business with the wi-fi device is looking less and less like an innocent, random aspect of this whole story.

From the article:


And more, regarding Verrimus themselves being targeted:



And finally, an interesting snippet regarding Rits:



Quite surprised this isn't getting more coverage, but then understandably this whistleblowing business has completely overtaken the GSOC story. On the other hand, this piles more evidence on to the bugging scandal and answers some of the suggestions that there were innocent explanations for everything. The wi-fi thing in particular, as I said in a previous thread if one wanted to hack into such a device, a public wi-fi network like Bitbuzz would be perfect as it would be almost impossible to track down an individual connected to it - in fact, depending on the network you mightn't even have to be in the shop to use it, you could be parked outside and using your laptop in the car (my college wi-fi is easily strong enough to use half way down the street from the building, so it depends on the network). The fact that the device's memory was erased remotely, during an integrity test, seems incredible insidious to me.

How long now before someone suggests that Verrimus are incompetent enough to have formatted the device themselves without meaning to, and somehow mistaken this for an external command? :rolleyes:

They took screenshots before it was wiped remotely clever people so still have the evidence.

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For those who insist that the wi-fi device connecting to a nearby public Bitbuzz network is proof that it wasn't being hacked or tampered with, can I direct you to John Mooney's latest article in this week's Sunday Times, in which he talks about the fact that on their second visit, Verrimus themselves found that they were under surveillance, and that when they attempted to take a closer look at the wi-fi device in question (a video conferencing system according to Mooney), the device was wiped/formatted remotely, while they were in the process of examining it?

I'm sure the Godges and Shatters of this world can conjure up another perfectly innocent explanation for this, of course, but I'd advise people to read the article, since it has garnered significantly less coverage than the previous two due to the understandable media focus on this new situation around Connolly and further whistleblowers, etc.

The business with the wi-fi device is looking less and less like an innocent, random aspect of this whole story.

From the article:


And more, regarding Verrimus themselves being targeted:



And finally, an interesting snippet regarding Rits:



Quite surprised this isn't getting more coverage, but then understandably this whistleblowing business has completely overtaken the GSOC story. On the other hand, this piles more evidence on to the bugging scandal and answers some of the suggestions that there were innocent explanations for everything. The wi-fi thing in particular, as I said in a previous thread if one wanted to hack into such a device, a public wi-fi network like Bitbuzz would be perfect as it would be almost impossible to track down an individual connected to it - in fact, depending on the network you mightn't even have to be in the shop to use it, you could be parked outside and using your laptop in the car (my college wi-fi is easily strong enough to use half way down the street from the building, so it depends on the network). The fact that the device's memory was erased remotely, during an integrity test, seems incredible insidious to me.

How long now before someone suggests that Verrimus are incompetent enough to have formatted the device themselves without meaning to, and somehow mistaken this for an external command? :rolleyes:

So the media console is now a video conferencing unit?

bajer101

Hootanany wrote: »

They took screenshots before it was wiped remotely clever people so still have the evidence.

It is looking increasingly unlikely that GSOC weren't surveilled. You can certainly understand the GSOC leaker being unhappy that no action was going to be taken following the Verrimus' report. The evidence that has been drip fed so far definitely indicates an event that should not have been glossed over by Shatter in the Dail. I would also be very surprised if Rits would have glossed over this WiFi evidence and said that it was likely just a glitch. I would be more inclined to believe that they said that it might be explained by a glitch. It's increasingly suspicious that Shatter refused to release the full Rits report to the Oireachtas committee.

There are still a lot of unanswered questions. The Video conf unit that was compromised was in the boardroom that apparently wasn't used that much. It was shown to connect to the Bit Buzz hotspot which was only active since last August - which would have been very much at the tail end of the suspected surveillance. Was this surveillance used also used to target Verrimus? The Bitbuzz WiFi records should have been audited fully by now. Verrimus wouldn't have had the authority to do that. If a Bitbuzz account was used and if the data was forwarded, that should leave the beginnings of a trail. Although, I'd be surprised if that sort of trail was left. Much more likely that a second device was connected to that Bitbuzz network and captured the data, and that second device then either forwarded the data on, or was retrieved.

Mooney reiterated the point about the IMSI catcher being state level, despite Shatter and some elements of the media talking about them being readily available and easily built. Perhaps Verrimus have provided information about the capabilities of the IMSI they detected. Eg., the cheap, easily built ones are 2G only, so you could certainly rule those out. There may be other signatures detected that elevate the one they detected to state level.

It's also interesting that Verrimus had their findings reviewed. Maybe this is common practice when they detect possible intrusions. I have read that companies in this sphere are meticulous in their note taking and logging. Maybe they weren't sure? Or maybe they realised the significance of what they had uncovered and predicted the probable fallout and were covering their arses. I'm inclined to go with the latter.

bajer101

Godge wrote: »

So the media console is now a video conferencing unit?

Yes. It's a vital piece of information and probably the most significant revelation of the last week. If it was a playstation or a NAS, you'd be a lot more likely to rule it out as an anomaly - especially in the absence of a WLAN. But a video conf unit!!! How the hell could Shatter stand up in the Dail and try to gloss over that? He should have been hugely concerned.

hatrickpatrick

Godge wrote: »

So the media console is now a video conferencing unit?

The terms are hardly mutually exclusive are they? A video conferencing unit can be referred to as a "media device", nothing incorrect about that, it's just slightly more detailed than what has previously been made public.
You are ignoring the bigger aspect of this - the fact that the device was tampered with remotely while Verrimus was watching is clear evidence that it was being hacked or interfered with in some way.

timmy4u2

Again we are back to history repeating itself.

In 78 we had a commissioner, Ned Garvey, who came up through the special/branch, C3,intelligence, call it what you like.

He was fingered by Fred Holroyd as being involved in Mi6 and that he had a meeting in Dublin with Holroyd and another RUC officer in Dublin. Garvey denied it but the Barron report had no problem declaring that the meeting took place.

In this decade we had investigations into Garda collusion involving Northern Security personnel

In 70s we had an esponage scandal involving the Gardai where the GRA were under surveillance and the offices of The DPP, Barnes.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89138088&postcount=1542

Of course we also had the phone tapping scandal.and the Ludlow affair where Garvey was fingered as the person who put a stop to the investigation.

Fianna Fail were in opposition but when they got back into government they sacked Garvey.

The Fine Gael led government of the time backed the commissioner.

Now we have a commissioner who was involved with the security/intelligence side of the job and who is at odds again with the Gardai.
He is involved in a bugging scandal, in that he is under suspicion, and he is supported by the Fine Gael led government.
He is under threat of being dismissed and Fianna Fail have left the public in no doubt as to what they will do to Callinan should they get into power

renegademaster

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Again we are back to history repeating itself.

In 78 we had a commissioner, Ned Garvey, who came up through the special/branch, C3,intelligence, call it what you like.

He was fingered by Fred Holroyd as being involved in Mi6 and that he had a meeting in Dublin with Holroyd and another RUC officer in Dublin. Garvey denied it but the Barron report had no problem declaring that the meeting took place.

In this decade we had investigations into Garda collusion involving Northern Security personnel

In 70s we had an esponage scandal involving the Gardai where the GRA were under surveillance and the offices of The DPP, Barnes.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89138088&postcount=1542

Of course we also had the phone tapping scandal.and the Ludlow affair where Garvey was fingered as the person who put a stop to the investigation.

Fianna Fail were in opposition but when they got back into government they sacked Garvey.

The Fine Gael led government of the time backed the commissioner.

Now we have a commissioner who was involved with the security/intelligence side of the job and who is at odds again with the Gardai.
He is involved in a bugging scandal, in that he is under suspicion, and he is supported by the Fine Gael led government.
He is under threat of being dismissed and Fianna Fail have left the public in no doubt as to what they will do to Callinan should they get into power

without a mass movement coming from the public, FF will forget their empty promises as soon as they get over to the other side of the dail again

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The terms are hardly mutually exclusive are they? A video conferencing unit can be referred to as a "media device", nothing incorrect about that, it's just slightly more detailed than what has previously been made public.
You are ignoring the bigger aspect of this - the fact that the device was tampered with remotely while Verrimus was watching is clear evidence that it was being hacked or interfered with in some way.

Again, how do we know this is the case? We are once again relying on leaked newspaper stories and people are repeating them as facts and hammering the gardai as a result.

timmy4u2 wrote: »

He is under threat of being dismissed and Fianna Fail have left the public in no doubt as to what they will do to Callinan should they get into power

Callinan was appointed by a FF government and came up through the ranks while FF were in government. He will be long retired before FF get back into government.

timmy4u2

Godge wrote: »

Again, how do we know this is the case? We are once again relying on leaked newspaper stories and people are repeating them as facts and hammering the gardai as a result.



Callinan was appointed by a FF government and came up through the ranks while FF were in government.[b/] He will be long retired before FF get back into government.

I ah....already.... said that long ago without the election conjecture

Scofflaw

Interesting that the latest polls suggest a complete absence of negative effect from the whole controversy:

@gavreilly: Sunday Times/B&A poll: Fine Gael 30 (nc since Dec); Fianna Fail 19 (-2); Labour 9 (-2); Sinn Fein 18 (+3); Green 3 (unch); others 21 (unch)

@gavreilly: Sunday Times/B&A poll - satisfaction ratings: Govt 31 (-4); Kenny 41 (-3); Gilmore 31 (-1); Martin 43 (nc); Adams 39 (+6); Ryan 31 (+1)

@gavreilly: SBP/Red C poll: Fine Gael 29 (+2 since last month), Fianna Fáil 22 (-1), Labour 11 (+2), Sinn Féin 16 (unch), Greens 2 (+1), others 20 (-4)

That's pretty much all margin of error movement. It might be that GSOC fallout appears in the leaders' ratings, but it hasn't apparently dented voting intentions, which maybe makes sense.

cordially,
Scofflaw

timmy4u2

renegademaster wrote: »

without a mass movement coming from the public, FF will forget their empty promises as soon as they get over to the other side of the dail again

Of course that is correct. On the other side they did it before and history is repeating itself. Of course now there is the huge stumbling block of getting back into power....then again when you see the polls you have to despair

timmy4u2

Scofflaw wrote: »

Interesting that the latest polls suggest a complete absence of negative effect from the whole controversy:



That's pretty much all margin of error movement. It might be that GSOC fallout appears in the leaders' ratings, but it hasn't apparently dented voting intentions, which maybe makes sense.

cordially,
Scofflaw

It just shows that the public have not grasped what is going on.

We are a great nation of "I'm all right Jacks" and when the proverbial hits our front doorwe scream and dance.
As I said before it is from years of British rule where the C#a× was beaten out of us any time we objected.
We have a lot to learn

Hootanany

Or polls are manipulated :cool: