Garda Ombudsman "under high-tech surveillance"

tayto lover

Shady Tady wrote: »

Did he ask shatter to apologise?

Very good point and shows the two-faced attitude of politicians.

steddyeddy

That's true alright and I'm not saying they're handling this correctly. I'm just happy that someone is calling out that creature on his remarks towards honest gaurds.

timmy4u2

I do not think that Varadkar is acting alone in making that statement.It is too intense for that, even though he said he was acting alone.
A Garda spokesperson said this evening that Callinan will not be apologising.
Lets hope that this is the push before the shove for Callinan.

I am delighted for the two Gardai. They have been through a tough time.

Hopefully it is the push before the shove for Callinan.

Varadkar also went against the commissioner when he said that the whistleblowers followed the correct procedures for reporting the matters in question.
What Callinan said

He said it was “quite disgusting” that two people out of a force of 13,000 people are making “extraordinary serious allegations” and there is not “a whisper” from elsewhere in the force of “corruption or malpractice”.
“On a personal level, I think it’s quite disgusting,” Callinan told the independent TD Shane Ross.

What Varadkar said

the commissioner should “make any other corrections he needs to make to the testimony he made to the Public Accounts Committee”.

porsche959

timmy4u2 wrote: »

I do not think that Varadkar is acting alone in making that statement.It is too intense for that, even though he said he was acting alone.
A Garda spokesperson said this evening that Callinan will not be apologising.
Lets hope that this is the push before the shove for Callinan.

I am delighted for the two Gardai. They have been through a tough time.

Hopefully it is the push before the shove for Callinan.

Varadkar also went against the commissioner when he said that the whistleblowers followed the correct procedures for reporting the matters in question.
What Callinan said



What Varadkar said

He may well have support behind the scenes from FG Tds or even other cabinet members. Good on him for breaking ranks in any case.

porsche959

tayto lover wrote: »

Very good point and shows the two-faced attitude of politicians.

No, it's just pragmatism. Politics is not some happy clappy game of toy soldiers. And I am no FG supporter, for the record.

steddyeddy

Someone needs a spine to deal with this. We have a jumped up public servant perverting the course of justice and acting against the public interest and people are letting this happen. Some politician needs to step in a drag him out. He's working against the the public good and needs to go. The gaurds cannot be run like a boys club for any longer.

Going Forward

steddyeddy wrote: »

Someone needs a spine to deal with this. We have a jumped up public servant perverting the course of justice and acting against the public interest and people are letting this happen. Some politician needs to step in a drag him out. He's working against the the public good and needs to go. The gaurds cannot be run like a boys club for any longer.

What's the protocol for sacking a Commissioner I wonder?
Can it be even be done?

gizmo555

Going Forward wrote: »

What's the protocol for sacking a Commissioner I wonder?
Can it be even be done?

It has been done, but the FF government which sacked Commissioner Ned Garvey in 1978 made such a mess of it that he was able to sue for compensation and special legislation had to be enacted to retrospectively patch things up.

timmy4u2

gizmo555 wrote: »

It has been done, but the FF government which sacked Commissioner Ned Garvey in 1978 made such a mess of it that he was able to sue for compensation and special legislation had to be enacted to retrospectively patch things up.

There may not even be a need to sack Callinan. He is over the retiring age but was granted permission to exceed the upper age limit so he is there only at the pleasure of the minister.

Garvey was involved in the surveillance of the then DPP Eamon Barnes and the editorial staff of the Garda Review who, at the time had their offices swept for bugs

Garvey also sent a C/Supt named Dodd and two Supers to Barnes to try and bully him to charge the Garda Review Editorial staff I under the official Secrets Act.

The final straw was down to the prosecuting of 200 offences by each Garda and what was said in the dail and not said in the Dail and the them Justice minister siding with the Commissioner.
Sound familiar? History is repeating itself.
The missing link is the sacking of a commissioner

Shady Tady

I think Gay Byrne had a large part to play in today's statement by vadradkar, I think he would have walked from the RSA today if that statement wasn't made. Road deaths are on the way up, he's not happy with garda resources in fighting road deaths and he's publically said if I'm correct he'll leave if its not being given the priority it needs. I think the commissioner is a scapegoat, the whole country and beyond knew the system was weak and open to abuse before any whistleblower came along and they didn't care because they had the chance to write a letter or contact a friend who might sort it for them. It was a weak system and was abused by joe public. We all pretend now that we're shocked and outraged. Lesson learned move on. Where are all the whistleowers in the dail, they are well able to protect their own when they fell from heights!

hatrickpatrick

porsche959 wrote: »

No, it's just pragmatism. Politics is not some happy clappy game of toy soldiers. And I am no FG supporter, for the record.

This is an argument I will never understand - what's pragmatic about holding on to a minister who has made a complete arse of himself through arrogance and misbehavior? If anything, Shatter is a liability, and even if they won't get rid of someone on principle, surely it's a case of "get him out before he f*cks something else up and brings us even more bad press as a government"?

Happyman42

I'm sure Leo would have designs on the leadership...another heave underway against Enda/Shatterites in the party?

timmy4u2

Shady Tady wrote: »

I think Gay Byrne had a large part to play in today's statement by vadradkar, I think he would have walked from the RSA today if that statement wasn't made. Road deaths are on the way up, he's not happy with garda resources in fighting road deaths and he's publically said if I'm correct he'll leave if its not being given the priority it needs. I think the commissioner is a scapegoat, the whole country and beyond knew the system was weak and open to abuse before any whistleblower came along and they didn't care because they had the chance to write a letter or contact a friend who might sort it for them. It was a weak system and was abused by joe public. We all pretend now that we're shocked and outraged. Lesson learned move on. Where are all the whistleowers in the dail, they are well able to protect their own when they fell from heights!

I cannot agree that the commissioner is a scapegoat. I would rather think that applies more to Shatter as he appears to have been misled by Callinan.

Callinan had several years to deal with these issues and he did nothing positive about it, but he did oversee the false disciplinary charges put against a whistleblower.

Why would a C/Supt commence such a flawed and wrong campaign against a whistleblower without the consent of his senior officers.
The Garda Disciplinary Regulations, known within the force as Kangaroo Courts, are used and abused to use the might of the state to weed out those that they dislike.

Shady Tady

timmy4u2 wrote: »

I cannot agree that the commissioner is a scapegoat. I would rather think that applies more to Shatter as he appears to have been misled by Callinan.

Callinan had several years to deal with these issues and he did nothing positive about it, but he did oversee the false disciplinary charges put against a whistleblower.

Why would a C/Supt commence such a flawed and wrong campaign against a whistleblower without the consent of his senior officers.
The Garda Disciplinary Regulations, known within the force as Kangaroo Courts, are used and abused to use the might of the state to weed out those that they dislike.

Shatter hears what shatter wants to hear, he's not the type to be lead by anyone. Shatter and the government tried to manage the penalty points problem and hoped it would go away. Now that the media won't drop it and it has got momentum the likes of varadkar are talking out of both sides of their mouths and shafting the commissioner who you can be sure was briefed by the goverment on how to proceed. Now he's on his own taking the heat, I hope he drops a bombshell of some sorts when he parts/ retires. I can only imagine the yes person that will be next promoted to commissioner. We'll be able to see the strings!!

timmy4u2

Shady Tady wrote: »

Shatter hears what shatter wants to hear, he's not the type to be lead by anyone. Shatter and the government tried to manage the penalty points problem and hoped it would go away. Now that the media won't drop it and it has got momentum the likes of varadkar are talking out of both sides of their mouths and shafting the commissioner who you can be sure was briefed by the goverment on how to proceed. Now he's on his own taking the heat, I hope he drops a bombshell of some sorts when he parts/ retires. I can only imagine the yes person that will be next promoted to commissioner. We'll be able to see the strings!!

There is no denying that Callinan and Shatter thought they could bully their way through the revelations, that is very clear. But I am sure that Callinan assured Shatter that he could sort out his boys by what ever means possible.
Lets not forgetvthat they got away with it before and Fianna Fail and the previous Commissioner did it with the John O'Donohue speeding case.
They totally ignored all the evidence placed before them. Cowan said in the Dail that O'Donoghue would deal with it in his own way.
This was a serious incident of dangerous driving through several townlands as the state car tried to out run the Garda Car with the Garda car reaching over 120mph putting the driver and his companion in grave danger.



Not only did they bury the file that was submitted by the Garda but they also commenced a campaigh of disciplinary action against the garda, and intimidation against him and his family that culminated with the Garda's family home being broken into at midnight by hooded Gardai and then the ambush of the Garda and his family when they returned home unexpectedly.
A dossier on the whole affair,( to include the fact that Donegal Disgraced Supt John O'Connor was instrumental in supervising the intimidation and break in while he was under investigation himself and when Morris had already penned a damning report on OConnor that placed O'Connors career in the hands of the minister) was handed to the Minister for Justice Aherne by the then deputy Chief Whip of Fianna Fail.
What did Fianna Fail do with it? They binned it

I firmly believe that this will be coming back into the public domain shortly

Going Forward

GSOC web site down at moment......

ABC101

Ireland is the land of Zero Accountability..

I believe the Donegal fiasco also involved a family who where effectively held hostage for 3 to 4 days while their farm was searched for weapons.

Of course no such weapons where found, as there was nothing there.. but they where intimidated and held hostage none the less.

I believe they sold the farm and emigrated to Australia or New Zealand..... their name was Gallagher.

As for FF binning reports.. FF are the greatest weapon of mass destruction this country has ever witnessed... 3 times they have thrown the economy over a cliff.

The establishment must be hoping for this GSOC controversy to blow over and they can then "uncircle the wagons" and carry on down the road as normal.

timmy4u2

Going Forward wrote: »

GSOC web site down at moment......

Bugs I suppose

renegademaster

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is an argument I will never understand - what's pragmatic about holding on to a minister who has made a complete arse of himself through arrogance and misbehavior? If anything, Shatter is a liability, and even if they won't get rid of someone on principle, surely it's a case of "get him out before he f*cks something else up and brings us even more bad press as a government"?

if governments keep their head down for a few hours or worse case a few days, we're all so busy watching the latest episode of the soap opera that governments and their ilk put out in the public sphere for us

this and the fact fine gael were trotting out the lack of protests since fine gael got into government is a sure sign of approval towards all the governments decisions.

why would they change when the irish people are asleep at the wheel??

sparkling sea

People in Ireland accept a white wash we always have done, we don't demand accountability or responsibility from anyone/

steddyeddy

By the way to use an old garda standby "anyone who doesn't agree with corruption in the garda must hate the garda and have been arrested by them". With that level of intelligence is it a wonder we're where we at.

timmy4u2

ABC101 wrote: »

Ireland is the land of Zero Accountability..

I believe the Donegal fiasco also involved a family who where effectively held hostage for 3 to 4 days while their farm was searched for weapons.

Of course no such weapons where found, as there was nothing there.. but they where intimidated and held hostage none the less.

I believe they sold the farm and emigrated to Australia or New Zealand..... I think their name was Galbraith... not sure.

As for FF binning reports.. FF are the greatest weapon of mass destruction this country has ever witnessed... 3 times they have thrown the economy over a cliff.

The establishment must be hoping for this GSOC controversy to blow over and they can then "uncircle the wagons" and carry on down the road as normal.

And the home of a female Garda (wasn't Ban Garda a lot easier) who witnessed the practising of a persons signature by Senior Gardai raided/broken into on the same Supt John
O'Connors watch.
Everything Morris recommended was ignored. That is terrible negligence by the intervening Commissionersand ministers.

ABC101

Sorry folks... it was the Gallagher Family... not Galbraith

http://faduda.net/articles/tribunals/morris-tribunal-for-dummies/

I'll edit the post now!!

Calina

timmy4u2 wrote: »

And the home of a female Garda (wasn't Ban Garda a lot easier) who witnessed the practising of a persons signature by Senior Gardai raided/broken into on the same Supt John
O'Connors watch.
Everything Morris recommended was ignored. That is terrible negligence by the intervening Commissionersand ministers.

Just "Garda" would be even easier still.

hatrickpatrick

Kenny is a little upset that criticisms of the commissioner are being aired in public.
Am I being too cynical in suggesting that this is because criticisms aired in private ate easier to bury and therefore reduce the amount of political pressure on Callinan?
A bit like how internal whistleblowing is almost always preferred by those in authority because its easier to do nothing and get away with it

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kenny-tells-ministers-bring-up-concerns-on-commissioner-at-cabinet-not-in-public-30114212.html

I'm reminded of when Gilmore told O'donoghue that the Dail had lost confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and Cowen told him this would have been better handled in private. Am I being cynical in automatically translating that as "it should have been aired in such a way as not to damage the reputations of people who deserve to have their reputations damaged"?

Shady Tady

steddyeddy wrote: »

By the way to use an old garda standby "anyone who doesn't agree with corruption in the garda must hate the garda and have been arrested by them". With that level of intelligence is it a wonder we're where we at.

In fairness there can be a lot of vile towards gardai from scumbags who have agendas, you can't verify everything anti garda as appropiate, that dosent show much intelligence either!

ABC101

@Hatrickpatrick,

The "establishment" is intensely paranoid about ANY bad publicity...whether it be about the Garda, the HSE or anything else...

As soon as it appears that a "S**tstorm" is about to break open, immediately wheels start turning to "protect" the establishment, the minister or the dept.

Get to Kenny, get him to keep his mouth shut before he says something stupid, circle the wagons... identify victim.... blame victim... manipulate media with careful sound bites.... turn victim into the aggressor etc.

It's all standard procedure....

If they actually put 1/2 the amount of time into just keeping the country running than they do into polishing the edifice of the establishment then this country would be 10 times better off.

twowheelsgood

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Kenny is a little upset that criticisms of the commissioner are being aired in public.

Ironically it might well be argued that airing of criticisms of criticisms in public as Kenny has done is not in the best interests of his government!

I think Kenny here has created a serious problem for Gilmore, and in turn his government with this move.

steddyeddy

Shady Tady wrote: »

In fairness there can be a lot of vile towards gardai from scumbags who have agendas, you can't verify everything anti garda as appropiate, that dosent show much intelligence either!

True.

renegademaster

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Kenny is a little upset that criticisms of the commissioner are being aired in public.
Am I being too cynical in suggesting that this is because criticisms aired in private ate easier to bury and therefore reduce the amount of political pressure on Callinan?
A bit like how internal whistleblowing is almost always preferred by those in authority because its easier to do nothing and get away with it

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kenny-tells-ministers-bring-up-concerns-on-commissioner-at-cabinet-not-in-public-30114212.html

I'm reminded of when Gilmore told O'donoghue that the Dail had lost confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and Cowen told him this would have been better handled in private. Am I being cynical in automatically translating that as "it should have been aired in such a way as not to damage the reputations of people who deserve to have their reputations damaged"?

at this extreemly late stage in the whole game yes, yes you are being a little too cynical, just a tad