When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

michaelotoole

Can I assume if there no change in the "Attainable Net Data Rate" vectoring has not been enabled?
Also, added to Tonio's question... if prior to vectoring max upload is 18MB, will this raise to 20MB after implementation?


Finally, I notice the "Attainable Net Data Rate" changes early morning and after midnight... at least on the two occasion I have tested... goes from 97.240 Mbps to between 110 and 111 Mbps... why is that?
Mike

ED E

michaelotoole wrote: »

Finally, I notice the "Attainable Net Data Rate" changes early morning and after midnight... at least on the two occasion I have tested... goes from 97.240 Mbps to between 110 and 111 Mbps... why is that?
Mike

Crosstalk. As more lines are in use noise goes up and attainables drop a small bit.

dxhound2005

Tonio wrote: »

Forgive me if these are stupid questions. Why do the upload speeds not get bumped up with vectoring switched on? Does vectoring only benefit the download speed? Is 20Mb/s the limit for upload via VDSL2?

I don't know if there is a limit. I know you can have symmetrical broadband, same speed up and down, but possibly a wireless only product? The only thing we have to go on still is the Eircom press release from last Sept, no mention there of upload speeds.

http://pressroom.eircom.net/press_releases/article/eircoms_Fibre_Network_to_Offer_Broadband_Speeds_of_100Mb/

I notice that UPC are still only 10 Meg upload even on their 200 Meg download product.

BionicRasher

bk wrote: »

If you sign up to eVision you get put on a "stable" profile rather then a "normal" profile. This means you trade speed for stability of the connection.

For example if previously you were on the 70mb "normal" profile and signed up for eVision, then you would be changed to a 50mb "stable" profile.

This is one of the major downsides of eVision. Another is that eVision uses your actual bandwidth while a stream is active (watching or recording a channel). It uses 2.5mb/s per SD stream or 10mb/s per HD stream, this is in addition to being moved to a stable profile. UPC doesn't suffer from this problem at all, their TV service is entirely separate from their broadband service. Watching TV has no impact on the BB speed.

BTW just because your line can achieve a higher data rate, doesn't mean Eircom will sell you that profile. For instance my parents attainable download rate is 100mb/s even before vectoring was enabled (they are literally 10 meters from the cabinet), but Eircom put them on a 70mb/s profile as until now, that is the fastest profile Eircom made available.

Ahh come on don't start the eVision bashing again.

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

Some of those speeds would be great. I would be happy with a stable 50Mbps anyday.

BTW how do I see Attainable Net Data Rate on the Vodafone HG658c?

OneEightSeven

BionicRasher wrote: »

Ahh come on don't start the eVision bashing again.

It's a poor concept. They don't have enough bandwidth for IPTV and to compete with UPC as well.

Some of those speeds would be great. I would be happy with a stable 50Mbps anyday.

BTW how do I see Attainable Net Data Rate on the Vodafone HG658c?

I don't think you can see your attainable net data rate. When I get my VDSL upgrade, I'll have to ask the technician when he installs it because I'm with Vodafone as well and I have that router, too.

pistolpetes11

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

There is some great speeds there , one problem ....... contention , a lot of folks out side of the 1K mark I think will suffer massively from it.

My speed goes from around 70 outside of peak times to 14-19 down

and from 16-20 to 9-12 upload in peak times .

Does any one know what is the contention ratio on eFibre ?

kaizersoze

bk wrote: »

Oh, so I've found the (proposed) new profiles for Vectoring enabled exchanges in this document:

http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=1068

High Speed Internet Profiles:

Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps) - Up (Mbps)
300m - 100 - 20
450m - 90 - 20
525m - 80 - 20
600m - 60 - 20
750m - 50 - 20
850m - 40 - 10
1000m - 30 - 8
1200m - 25 - 8
1300m - 18 - 5
1500m - 15 - 3
1700m - 12 - 1
2000m - 7 -1

High Stability profiles (for eVision)
Line Length (max) - Down (Mbps - Fixed) - Up (Mbps - Rate Adaptive)
300m - 85 - 5 to 20
450m - 80 - 5 to 20
525m - 70 - 5 to 20
600m - 60 - 5 to 20
650m - 50 - 5 to 16
750m - 40 - 5 to 16
850m - 34 - 5 to 16
1000m - 28 - 50 to 15
1200m - 20 - 2.5 to 8
1300m - 18 - 2.5 to 7
1500m - 12 - 0.25 to 1
1750m - 10 - 0.25 to 1
2000m - 4 - 0.25 to 1

Really interesting, so a couple of things to note.

- Even if your line can "attain" higher speeds (for instance 130mb/s in the case of my parents with vectoring), Eircom will only sell a max of 100mb/s to them.

- Almost everyone is seeing a very large speed increase.

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

7mb down, 1mb up might not sound very exciting, but for those in rural areas, this can be a massive jump up from a crappy, very unstable potentially 1mb/200k ADSL1 connection.

7mb would allow such people to easily do Video Calling and SD youtube and Netflix, it should also just be possible to do HD Netflix and Youtube, a great and very welcome improvement for such people.

Even better 12/1 out to 1750m is even better, this is a very decent speed that makes most current internet services work very well including most HD streaming.

This is really really good news for rural Ireland. Now we just have to try and make sure that every village in Ireland has at least one fibre connected cab at the centre of the village. Such fibre can then be used to help feed LTE and fixed wireless to those more then 2km from the village.

Good post.

kingtiger

should i be getting higher speed with these stats?

dalta5billion

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

There is some great speeds there , one problem ....... contention , a lot of folks out side of the 1K mark I think will suffer massively from it.

Unless they're somehow suffering from more cross-talk at night I don't see how those at >1000m will suffer from more contention than those at 5 metres - it's the same cabinet backhaul.

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Does any one know what is the contention ratio on eFibre ?

Eircom's network seems to have gone to s*it recently so we can't judge. NGB (ADSL etc) is marketed as 1:1. It'd be worrying if eFibre wasn't 1:1.

ED E

bk wrote: »

- Eircom will now allow VDSL to be sold out to 2km, versus just 1km when they first rolled it out. This is fantastic news for rural Ireland.

Its been available for over a month in fact. Great for those lucky enough to be in an area with enough custs to warrant a VDSL cab.

kaizersoze

Fibre install in Ballinasloe today.


Blue rack are the terminations from the exchange,
Green terminations are from customer premises,
White are the 200 pair terminations from the fibre cab.

pistolpetes11

dalta5billion wrote: »

Unless they're somehow suffering from more cross-talk at night I don't see how those at >1000m will suffer from more contention than those at 5 metres - it's the same cabinet backhaul.






Eircom's network seems to have gone to s*it recently so we can't judge. NGB (ADSL etc) is marketed as 1:1. It'd be worrying if eFibre wasn't 1:1.

Its not mentioned anywhere on the Eircom Website thats its un congested , yet the 24GB NGB is marked as un congested .

What I meant about the evenings and being outside of 1000M is , Im losing around 75% of my download speed in the evenings , That still leaves me with 14-20MB

The further away from the cab you are the less you get so in theory your going to end up worse off till it comes to a point of diminishing returns

Nonoperational

It's supposed to be uncongested if there is adequate backhaul available. I get full speeds 24/7. Very good product so far.

bk

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

What I meant about the evenings and being outside of 1000M is , Im losing around 75% of my download speed in the evenings , That still leaves me with 14-20MB

The further away from the cab you are the less you get so in theory your going to end up worse off till it comes to a point of diminishing returns

No, there is no contention between the cab and your home. That part of the network is 1:1.

If you are seeing a 75% drop in speeds in the evenings, so are people less then 1000 meters from the cab.

Contention starts at the cab and along the fibre to the rest of the network. This speed drop you are seeing is contention at some other point deep in Eircoms network.

If you want to be pedantic line speed can change throughout the day as copper lines are effected by temperature, rain, etc. However you would be talking about only a 1 or 2 mb difference, not a 75% drop.

SpaceTime

I suspect the efibre NGA product and ADSL2+ may be back hauled very differently too.

Legacy ADSL (up to 8mbit) products aren't even on the same core network in some cases.

I've been getting a steady high speed 24/7.

godskitchen

I have never seen any drop in speeds on any of the vdsl sites I look after.

It's been rock solid apart from some modem resets in the early days.

captain_boycott

anyone know if vectoring is enabled in Castlebar yet?

pistolpetes11

Il run a program test on it tonight and into tomorrow and she see what it shows up , cheers

SpaceTime

Any sign off vectoring enabled in Cork City in any of the exchange areas yet?

Cork981

SpaceTime wrote: »

Any sign off vectoring enabled in Cork City in any of the exchange areas yet?

Don't think so, I'm on the churchfield exchange and haven't seen any changes yet.

I'm checking daily.

SpaceTime

Cork981 wrote: »

Don't think so, I'm on the churchfield exchange and haven't seen any changes yet.

I'm checking daily.

I guess it'll happen soon.

Vico1612

Spoke to VF techsupport : they confirmed that Vectoring is enabled but have no immediate plans for higher speeds
Strange ....

SpaceTime

Vico1612 wrote: »

Spoke to VF techsupport : they confirmed that Vectoring is enabled but have no immediate plans for higher speeds
Strange ....

I don't think eircom's released wholesale vectoring plans yet. They would have to announce new a new set of wholesale packages which gives me the impression that we're not going to see a speed increase for a little while yet.

I'd guess once all the cabinets are switched on, they'll start selling it. Otherwise, you're going to have a whole mess with having to tell customers it's not available and undermining your own sales.

Once they're happy with the initial phase of the rollout, I assume it's just a matter of software updating a load of cabinets over a few days/weeks and all of a sudden everyone will be ready to roll. Then either speed bump, or a new upgraded top rate product.

Edit:

I'm wrong they were added.

Two new products on the Stable/Multicast table: 85 Mbit/s Down and 20Mbit/s up and a 80 Mbit/s down and 20 Mbit/s up package
Three new products on the 'high speed internet table: 100 Mbit/s down 20 Mbit/s up and 90 Mbit/s down and 20 mbit/s up and a 80Mbit/s down and 20 Mbit/s up profile.


"The High Speed Internet (HSI) range is ‘Rate Adaptive’ in both directions – this means that the line speed in each direction varies, depending on local line conditions, up to the maximum value specified by the profile currently set on that line. The ‘Stable’ range is ‘Rate Adaptive’ upstream and ‘Fixed’ downstream. This means that the downstream speed is set by the applied profile and does not vary. High Speed Internet or Stable/ Non-rate adaptive is selected at Order submission, but can be changed subsequently"

All this information is available publicly, nothing insider about it : http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Products/Broadband/Next_Generation_Access/

AFAIK, they're required to publish it by ComReg.

ED E

SpaceTime wrote: »

AFAIK, they're required to publish it by ComReg.

They have to furnish all new all line operators with new info/products at the same time. Don't know if it has to be public though(seems to be usually though).

SpaceTime

ED E wrote: »

They have to furnish all new all line operators with new info/products at the same time. Don't know if it has to be public though(seems to be usually though).

It's all in the above link on their wholesale website.

ED E

SpaceTime wrote: »

It's all in the above link on their wholesale website.

I know, just commenting about the general requirements.

SpaceTime

ED E wrote: »

I know, just commenting about the general requirements.

I've never seen them actually take out adverts in the papers for speed increases, just entirely new products.

I'd assume Eircom Retail, Vodafone and everyone else has to now come up with products for those new line rates. Hopefully it will just mean a speed bump for everyone, like the way UPC does things generally.

ED E

The 70Mb Unlims are due to be getting it free from eircom retail, or so I'm told.

EDIT: By free I mean no change of package, no contract etc.

SpaceTime

ED E wrote: »

The 70Mb Unlims are due to be getting it free from eircom retail, or so I'm told.

I'm only on the up to 50 package due to the line length, we get about 40. Hopefully it might see a bit of an improvement.

KeRbDoG

Great to see my original post is getting some use, also great to see that vectoring is getting rolled out

Question for yea. Without calling up Eircom and having fun speaking to someone there, is there a way from logging into the modem to see if vectoring has been enabled on the cab?
Is it possible its enabled on the cab and it might just mean I need to call'em and ask to "reprofile me" ?