Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

former legend

Deleted User wrote: »

Two experts that happen to be his agent and his coach. Come on.

I don't think Paul Wallace would appreciate being confused with Frankie Sheahan!

Grimebox

former legend wrote: »

I'm not saying it should be ignored at all but in no way should it outweigh the opinion of the referee.

Wayne Barnes was on the spot. Paul Wallace was at home on the couch. Who had the better viewpoint on which prop was infringing?

Barnes has to make a decision on the spot. Anyone on the couch have time to develop their opinions and can watch replays in super slo-mo. Assuming Wallace's comments were sometime after the match, Wallace would have a better idea.

former legend

Grimebox wrote: »

Barnes has to make a decision on the spot. Anyone on the couch have time to develop their opinions and can watch replays in super slo-mo. Assuming Wallace's comments were sometime after the match, Wallace would have a better idea.

They weren't.

former legend

former legend wrote: »

I don't think Paul Wallace would appreciate being confused with Frankie Sheahan!

My bad - read Wallace, thought Sheahan.

Molester Stallone

former legend wrote: »

So what you're saying is that when Kilcoyne was breaking even, everything was legit, but when things went against him, it's the other guys who were breaking the rules?

Poor Dave, all the nasty big tight-heads keep cheating against him? One of the best tight-heads in world rugby over the last 20 years, and the tight-head who spent most of the Six Nations dominating his opposite numbers? On balance, who do you think would have more need to cheat to compete?

Kilcoyne needs to improve his scrummaging, that's the bare facts of it. There's no shame in that, he's still inexperienced at top level rugby. Healy was the exact same in his first few seasons at the top level and he's turned it round massively.

Nope, didn't say that at all, you did

BazPM

It's always the pesky refs being wrong!! Kilcoyne always has issues against top tight heads and he's receiving much less criticism than Healy did for the same issue at the start of his career. From the hyperbole of some posters here you'd swear the refs and everyone was out to get kilcoyne! As to the poster who referenced Munster scrum coach Paul Wallace as a source 'LOL'. Do you honestly think as next seasons scrum coach that he's going to point out that his player struggles at scrum time??? He obviously is trying to stem the reputation that kilcoyne already has as a poor scrummager at the top level.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BazPM wrote: »

It's always the pesky refs being wrong!! Kilcoyne always has issues against top tight heads and he's receiving much less criticism than Healy did for the same issue at the start of his career. From the hyperbole of some posters here you'd swear the refs and everyone was out to get kilcoyne! As to the poster who referenced Munster scrum coach Paul Wallace as a source 'LOL'. Do you honestly think as next seasons scrum coach that he's going to point out that his player struggles at scrum time??? He obviously is trying to stem the reputation that kilcoyne already has as a poor scrummager at the top level.

By god you've cracked it. Not like Wallace was giving his opinion. Because he's a Munster man it must be an alternative motive :rolleyes:

As for the part about people saying refs are out to get Kilcoyne, read over the last few pages and look at that statement again. Looks ridiculous right?

BazPM

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

By god you've cracked it. Not like Wallace was giving his opinion. Because he's a Munster man it must be an alternative motive :rolleyes:

As for the part about people saying refs are out to get Kilcoyne, read over the last few pages and look at that statement again. Looks ridiculous right?

So you actually believe a future member of the coaching staff is going to publicly criticise his own player? That is the only opinion that is ridiculous here to be honest

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BazPM wrote: »

So you actually believe a future member of the coaching staff is going to publicly criticise his own player? That is the only opinion that is ridiculous here to be honest

No, I don't think he would have said anything about it. You're the one claiming he's biased.

I'm claiming he's calling it as he sees it.

Believe what you want I don't really care tbh.

Clearlier

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

By god you've cracked it. Not like Wallace was giving his opinion. Because he's a Munster man it must be an alternative motive :rolleyes:

As for the part about people saying refs are out to get Kilcoyne, read over the last few pages and look at that statement again. Looks ridiculous right?

He'd be some fool to come out and say the opposite and he has never struck me as being a fool. There an interest and therefore a propensity towards bias on his part. I would take his opinions on this with the large amount of salt required.

Incidentally if Kilcoyne does require some instruction in the darker arts of the scrum there won't be many better teachers. I was still living in Ireland and going to all of Leinsters home games when he joined. We went from having a scrum that was used as a means of restarting the game to having one that received and gave away penalties in equal measure. When he wasn't playing the scrum went back to being solid again. It was great of course when your team got the penalty but tough when you conceded one and it made it a lot harder to run back line moves off a scrum. I digress.

You can't possibly apportion much weight to the the words of people with such an obvious bias. I'm interested in what they have to say because it can reflect the mood and thoughts of a coach/camp. It may even be accurate but I'd look elsewhere for an attempt to find the truth because they have an interest in the truth being what they say it is.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

"such an obvious bias"

jesus christ. This isn't Moore or Sheehan. Wallace is a decent analyst and suddenly he's biased to the hilt because he's going to be involved with Munster next season

ssaye2

I wont have a bad word said about Wallace.

ends transmission

CatFromHue

Paul Wallace will be involved with Munster next season?

stephen_n

CatFromHue wrote: »

Paul Wallace will be involved with Munster next season?

What he said^^^ when was this announced?

Riskymove

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

"such an obvious bias"

jesus christ. This isn't Moore or Sheehan. Wallace is a decent analyst and suddenly he's biased to the hilt because he's going to be involved with Munster next season

unfortunately all it takes is any association with Munster it seems and your comments become unacceptable

I'll also have to remember to simply ignore anything Shane Horgan or Bernard Jackman have to say in future (unfortunate cause I usually agree) when commenting on Leinster or Ireland...they are obviously being dishonest and have ulterier motives

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stephen_n wrote: »

What he said^^^ when was this announced?

It even sounds like news to me tbh. First I heard of it was on this thread. If there's nothing to it it's even more ridiculous saying wallaces comments were biased

BazPM

Riskymove wrote: »

unfortunately all it takes is any association with Munster it seems and your comments become unacceptable

I'll also have to remember to simply ignore anything Shane Horgan or Bernard Jackman have to say in future (unfortunate cause I usually agree) when commenting on Leinster or Ireland...they are obviously being dishonest and have ulterier motives

Neither are confirmed coaches of the player they are asked about but even then id take their opinions on Leinster players with a massive pinch of salt. That's just common sense

Buer

Eh, are people just mixing up Paul Wallace and Paul McCarthy?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BazPM wrote: »

Neither are confirmed coaches of the player they are asked about but even then id take their opinions on Leinster players with a massive pinch of salt. That's just common sense[/QUOTE]

Seems a little ridiculous. If you applied that logic to every analyst for every HC game you'd be discounting most analysis because they often get a former player with ties to the club playing on the panel

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

Eh, are people just mixing up Paul Wallace and Paul McCarthy?

How will the Munster props adapt to a vegetarian diet with McCarthy in charge?

Riskymove

Buer wrote: »

Eh, are people just mixing up Paul Wallace and Paul McCarthy?

McCarthy was let go last year and Penney has been doing it this year

so someone has to take over next season...but nothing official it seems

BazPM

Seems a little ridiculous. If you applied that logic to every analyst for every HC game you'd be discounting most analysis because they often get a former player with ties to the club playing on the panel[/quote]

It isn't really, they can still analyse facets of the game but when it comes to actually criticising their own players then nope not at all. Same with shaggy when it comes to Leinster players

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Riskymove wrote: »

McCarthy was let go last year and Penney has been doing it this year

so someone has to take over next season...but nothing official it seems

But just incase, lets discount everything Wallace said on Saturday. I mean it would just be silly not to assume everything positive he says about Munster is nothing more than one eyed nonsense

Podge_irl

There are some weirdly ludicrous things being associated to Wallace here. I've always had a lot of time for his opinion and I would trust it was honestly held.

Still doesn't mean I have to agree with him.

Riskymove

BazPM wrote: »

It isn't really, they can still analyse facets of the game but when it comes to actually criticising their own players then nope not at all. Same with shaggy when it comes to Leinster players

so if shaggy criticises a leinster player.....is that some sort of reverse psychology??

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

BazPM wrote: »

It isn't really, they can still analyse facets of the game but when it comes to actually criticising their own players then nope not at all. Same with shaggy when it comes to Leinster players

Wallace doesn't work with Munster and hasn't played with any of the current squad bar maybe POC and DOC. So no it's nothing like Shaggy and the Leinster players

But now that you mention it, I don't discount anything Horgan says about his old team-mates. I think he's evenhanded and not afraid to critique them

stephen_n

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

It even sounds like news to me tbh. First I heard of it was on this thread. If there's nothing to it it's even more ridiculous saying wallaces comments were biased

In fairness it wasn't suggested he was biased, as much as not totally impartial, personally I think he is one of the best commentators going. Nor did anyone bar one or two people say Killer is a liability but you have to admit, a prop having difficulty at scrum time, is a rather major issue, as front rows have a primary function like no other on the pitch. Having said that maybe it's something he is trying to adjust in his technique, that is causing problems in the short term. Saying Hayman cheated or what ever else is just as ludicrous as saying Kilcoyne is a liability though as that's exactly what a good prop should do.

former legend

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

But just incase, lets discount everything Wallace said on Saturday. I mean it would just be silly not to assume everything positive he says about Munster is nothing more than one eyed nonsense

Totally agree. As a former Saracen, his views on Saturday's game are not to be trusted.

irishbucsfan

What did Wallace actually say about Kilcoyne?

Riskymove

Podge_irl wrote: »

Still doesn't mean I have to agree with him.

of course not

but if your only counterview is that his comments are invalid becasue he is from Munster..that would be pretty weak