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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

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    #3212
    Swiwi.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    Could I suggest a lighter topic of conversation. Maybe religion or politics.


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    #3213
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Are you saying only the pure of blood etc can play for Ireland? There are some who don't like the rule, there are some who are uncomfortable with it but accept it and there are some who are happy enough as it is as we are actually dealing with human beings, not slaves and property.

    :eek: wow


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    #3214
    hahashake
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭hahashake


    jacothelad wrote: »
    I certainly don't agree but then my first instinct is to ascribe the best intentions to someone's motives rather than reach for pejorative insults. On reading Mr. Aki's reported comments, it seems to me that he is perhaps a little naive, confused, trying to sau what he thinks people want to hear and perhaps not the sharpest when it comes to the sensibilities of people such as yourself.

    As for him being a 'mercenary', he is absolutely no different than anyone who comes here to play rugby and be rewarded financially for his efforts. That is not being 'mercenary', it's called employment.

    Where do you get your information that 'many people feel is degrading the value of international rugby.' ? There are a few who might go along with this but it is a clearly nonsense statement. As far as I can see most people would disagree with your unsupported claim. What is the value of International Rugby? Are you saying only the pure of blood etc can play for Ireland? There are some who don't like the rule, there are some who are uncomfortable with it but accept it and there are some who are happy enough as it is as we are actually dealing with human beings, not slaves and property.

    Impassioned response, no doubt a topic close to your heart.

    For a start, I don't mean mercenary as an insult but I stand by my statement. My point was that he is stating his intention to play for Ireland based on monetary gain, which is perfectly fine and completely understandable. The problem is that it undermines what International rugby stands for, why we have eligibility laws in the first place, so we don't end up with another club competition. I have zero issue with him if he wants to play for Connacht, I have zero issue if he wants to play for Ireland. Likewise I have no issue with Connacht, the IRFU and the fans who want the best for their teams. My issue is with the fact that we are diluting the meaning of international competition, especially when he probably would be running out for Samoa next year if not for his project player status. To even insinuate race or slavery being an issue is laughable.:o

    As to "many people", I base this on the same thing any one else would, personal experience. People in my real life interactions and online, including members of this forum. There are eligibility laws for a reason and they have changed since the dawn of professionalism. I think they need to upgraded again. Feel free to disagree.


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    #3215
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    stephen_n wrote: »
    Professional game, winning means more revenue, done deal, end of argument happened when the game went pro.

    Why even bother with a 3 year period in that case, why not just declare international rugby to be the same as club/provincial and allow players to play with whoever they want to immediately and end restriction on only representing one team?


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    #3216
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Risteard wrote: »
    Why even bother with a 3 year period in that case, why not just declare international rugby to be the same as club/provincial and allow players to play with whoever they want to immediately and end restriction on only representing one team?

    Window dressing!

    Once you play for a senior team though you are restricted, which is a difference between club rugby.


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    #3217
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38Y0i0-mHA


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    #3218
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    @Grimebox

    In that regard I would be very interested in a poll of next years 1st year academy players from the provinces to gauge if they are in favour or not of continuing the "project player" program...


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    #3219
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Swiwi. wrote: »
    Could I suggest a lighter topic of conversation. Maybe religion or politics.

    You started this, you're on our books now....


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    #3220
    Swiwi.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    .ak wrote: »
    You started this, you're on our books now....

    Mea culpa.

    Anyway, I must actually do some work :o


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    #3221
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    Tox56 wrote: »
    Yeah I don't think all projects are made equal. Someone like Strauss who came from relative obscurity, put his body on the line time and again for Leinster and worked his way up the ladder feels as Irish to me as anyone. Players like Stander and Aki (and Sykes) who come over expressly targeting an international place just feel a bit off, have that 'mercenary' air about them.

    Complete rubbish, saying stander is some sort of mercenary but strauss is an exception? Im not saying stander should walk into the irish team and he has to work for it but hes only at munster 2 years what more can he do? He has another year before hes qualified and after that i wouldn't feel uncomfortable if stander made an irish squad after he becomes irish qualified as he has shown he puts his body on the line eg phenomenal display against Toulouse and you could see how much it meant to him after.
    What i find intriguing is what difference do you find between stander and strauss?
    Is it the fact that one plays for munster and the latter with leinster?


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    #3222
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    case885 wrote: »
    Is it the fact that one plays for munster and the latter with leinster?

    Ah FFS. He mentions Stander, Aki and Sykes; one Munster, one Leinster, one Connacht. It's you that chose to focus on the Leinster/Munster aspect.


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    #3223
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Nobody who plays for Leinster could be a bad person.


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    #3224
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    former legend wrote: »
    Ah FFS. He mentions Stander, Aki and Sykes; one Munster, one Leinster, one Connacht. It's you that chose to focus on the Leinster/Munster aspect.

    What makes strauss so different to stander then? Thats my point, if stander completes his third year with munster he is no different to strauss.


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    #3225
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    .ak wrote: »
    Nobody who plays for Leinster could be a bad person.

    aren't they automatically granted citizenship, legendary status and VIP Status at Lillies?


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    #3226
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Riskymove wrote: »
    aren't they automatically granted citizenship, legendary status and VIP Status at Lillies?

    In that order, yes.


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    #3227
    former legend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    Riskymove wrote: »
    aren't they automatically granted citizenship, legendary status and VIP Status at Lillies?

    Loike, the goys wouldn't be seen dead at Lillies. It's all about Everleigh Garden and Krystle now.


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    #3228
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    I can't remember now but did Strauss do any interviews early on in his career with Leinster about playing with Ireland?

    I remember Sykes performed an interview when he was over here and said something like "Well if it can't be the green of South Africa I suppose I'll take the green of Ireland". Pretty much instant dislike there, hoped he would never even come close to playing for Ireland.


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    #3229
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    case885 wrote: »
    What makes strauss so different to stander then? Thats my point, if stander completes his third year with munster he is no different to strauss.

    His point was a simple one. Strauss came over to play with Leinster. Playing for Ireland wasn't on the cards when he signed. The likes of Stander and Sykes expressly stated they wanted to play for Ireland when they were signing up. It was part of the reason they signed on in the first place. And that is different to Strauss.


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    #3230
    marc96
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 300 ✭✭marc96


    It's because they can't get into their home nations team so they look elsewhere.


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    #3231
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    molloyjh wrote: »
    His point was a simple one. Strauss came over to play with Leinster. Playing for Ireland wasn't on the cards when he signed. The likes of Stander and Sykes expressly stated they wanted to play for Ireland when they were signing up. It was part of the reason they signed on in the first place. And that is different to Strauss.

    How wasnt it on the cards he was a project player? If they are signed as project players then of course they have an intention of playing with ireland, if they are asked would you ever like to play with ireland and they reply ''no'' then how could they be a project player? I dont know whether he was asked would he play with ireland when he signed but the answer must have yes if it was if he went straight into the irish squad when he qualified.


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    #3232
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    rockbeast wrote: »
    @Grimebox

    In that regard I would be very interested in a poll of next years 1st year academy players from the provinces to gauge if they are in favour or not of continuing the "project player" program...

    Asking people who directly suffer will only get one response. Let's ask Richardt Strauss, Manu Tualagi and Jared Payne while were at it.

    I'm not entirely sure what I think about all this to be honest. I don't feel strongly either way. There are good arguments on both sides. The current system is fine yet it does irk me slightly having "non-Irish" representing Ireland.


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    #3233
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    molloyjh wrote: »
    His point was a simple one. Strauss came over to play with Leinster. Playing for Ireland wasn't on the cards when he signed. The likes of Stander and Sykes expressly stated they wanted to play for Ireland when they were signing up. It was part of the reason they signed on in the first place. And that is different to Strauss.

    Note to future project players:

    Don't say you want to play for Ireland until qualified


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    #3234
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    marc96 wrote: »
    It's because they can't get into their home nations team so they look elsewhere.

    Perhaps they have been offered a contract that will go a long way to securing their financial future?

    If leaving their home country prevents them from playing for that country for the 3 year duration of a contract then they also can't play for Ireland during that period.

    If at the end of three years they want to return to their country of birth, no problem doing that, or they can sign another contract here and represent Ireland if selected and if so inclined.


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    #3235
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    Grimebox wrote: »
    Asking people who directly suffer will only get one response. Let's ask Richardt Strauss, Manu Tualagi and Jared Payne while were at it.

    I'm not entirely sure what I think about all this to be honest. I don't feel strongly either way. There are good arguments on both sides. The current system is fine yet it does irk me slightly having "non-Irish" representing Ireland.

    You sure? I'm not.

    Don't think it's necessarily a case of turkeys voting for christmas...


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    #3236
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    rockbeast wrote: »
    You sure? I'm not.

    Don't think it's necessarily a case of turkeys voting for christmas...

    I thought that's what you were implying


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    #3237
    rockbeast
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭rockbeast


    Riskymove wrote: »
    Note to future project players:

    Don't say you want to play for Ireland until qualified

    What's an Ireland?:)


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    #3238
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    Teferi wrote: »
    I can't remember now but did Strauss do any interviews early on in his career with Leinster about playing with Ireland?

    I remember Sykes performed an interview when he was over here and said something like "Well if it can't be the green of South Africa I suppose I'll take the green of Ireland". Pretty much instant dislike there, hoped he would never even come close to playing for Ireland.

    I dont like that either but putting stander in that bracket isn't right. He signed a three year contract said he would like to play for ireland if he got the chance once hes qualified, i find nothing wrong with that. If strauss said he would like to play with ireland once he qualified after signing with leinster would you have a problem with that?


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    #3239
    Teferi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    case885 wrote: »
    I dont like that either but putting stander in that bracket isn't right. He signed a three year contract said he would like to play for ireland if he got the chance once hes qualified, i find nothing wrong with that. If strauss said he would like to play with ireland once he qualified after signing with leinster would you have a problem with that?

    Am I putting Stander into that bracket? I wasn't aware.

    Anyway, it depends on who said what and how they said it.


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    #3240
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    case885 wrote: »
    I dont like that either but putting stander in that bracket isn't right. He signed a three year contract said he would like to play for ireland if he got the chance once hes qualified, i find nothing wrong with that. If strauss said he would like to play with ireland once he qualified after signing with leinster would you have a problem with that?

    It was all about my perception of them that's it. Disagree with it if you want but the PERCEPTION I got was that Stander came here because he wants to play for Ireland, and that Strauss came here to play rugby, only because he proved himself time and again for Leinster he is now in a position to play for Ireland.


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    #3241
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    Tox56 wrote: »
    It was all about my perception of them that's it. Disagree with it if you want but the PERCEPTION I got was that Stander came here because he wants to play for Ireland, and that Strauss came here to play rugby, only because he proved himself time and again for Leinster he is now in a position to play for Ireland.

    Strauss was a project player, stander is a project player no difference. If strauss was asked when he signed would he like to play for Ireland and said no then he shouldnt be playing for Ireland.


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