Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread III

rockbeast

hahashake wrote: »

Would a 24 year old Irishmen who moved to London for a job cheer for England after 3 years?

I am sure many would once they weren't playing Ireland.

Tox56

hahashake wrote: »

Would Aki be a citizen after 3 years?

Would a 24 year old Irishmen who moved to London for a job cheer for England after 3 years?

This is the point. England? Probably not, it's England. An Irishman moving to South Africa? New Zealand? Canada? That's where the lines become blurred

Then again, there are enough Irish in England on here who support England as long as they aren't playing Ireland, so who knows

hahashake

I don't doubt a persons ability to change allegiance over time, but from Aki's statements it seems money is his motivation to play for Ireland, not a sincere desire to represent Ireland. I don't know but I assume he has never been to Ireland. Based on NZ players in the past I would also doubt he plans to stay in Ireland after his career in Ireland ends, but I could be wrong.

rockbeast

hahashake wrote: »

I don't doubt a persons ability to change allegiance after time, but from Aki's statements it seems money is his motivation to play for Ireland, not a sincere desire to represent Ireland. I don't know but I assume he has never been to Ireland.

Would say currently "to play in Ireland".

If after 3 years he is good enough and wishes to play for Ireland we'll see...

Tox56

hahashake wrote: »

I don't doubt a persons ability to change allegiance over time, but from Aki's statements it seems money is his motivation to play for Ireland, not a sincere desire to represent Ireland. I don't know but I assume he has never been to Ireland. Based on NZ players in the past I would also doubt he plans to stay in Ireland after his career in Ireland ends, but I could be wrong.

He's moving to Connacht, a team with well publicised financial issues, how much money is he actually getting here?

hahashake

rockbeast wrote: »

Would say currently "to play in Ireland".

If after 3 years he is good enough and wishes to play for Ireland we'll see...

He has stated his desire to play for Ireland though. Not that he ever will, but he wants to.

rockbeast

hahashake wrote: »

He has stated his desire to play for Ireland though. Not that he ever will, but he wants to.

Yeah, but lip-service would have to be paid to the protocols even if insincere, I suppose

hahashake

Tox56 wrote: »

He's moving to Connacht, a team with well publicised financial issues, how much money is he actually getting here?

No clue, but project player wages plus the possibility of Irish wages must have beaten French and Japanese offers.

marc96

I don't agree with it,Ireland rugby team(or any national team) should be 100% Irish of not then it's just a made up and bought team.look at the 4/5 "Irish" guys that represented Ireland in the winter games....not one was born in Ireland and if I remember correctly not one lived in Ireland.i still stand by my original post,if the countries players aren't good enough then u shouldn't be trying to bring in foreign players,just accept it and try sort out ur grassroots and home grown players

Tox56

hahashake wrote: »

No clue, but project player wages plus the possibility of Irish wages must have beaten French and Japanese offers.

Assuming he had serious offers from France/Japan no offer from Connacht could come close to competing with that purely in terms of cash

hahashake

Tox56 wrote: »

Assuming he had serious offers from France/Japan no offer from Connacht could come close to competing with that purely in terms of cash

Don't the IRFU assist for project players?

desertcircus

Riskymove wrote: »

my issue is the potential it has to go too far

if our approach to any issue is to seek to bring in an overseas player...what for the young Irish players?

would we be happy to see 7 or 8 non-Irish representing the Country for example? Is it success at any cost?

we seemed to panic and bring in Bent for example and yet within months the likes of McGrath, Moore, Kilcoyne and Cronin are all in the mix

I have no issue with players coming here and becoming qualified and selected but actively planning for it is what concerns me

If three years is enough to make someone Irish, then I don't care if we field 23 naturalised players. Either they're not Irish, and they shouldn't be in the jeraey, or they are Irish and they deserve to be treated the same as any other Irishman. Whether Aki is Irish enough to play in three years has absolutely nothing to do with any other players, and it shouldn't matter a damn whether the Irish team has Strauss, Stander and Payne or Cronin, Ruddock and Kearney.

CIARAN_BOYLE

desertcircus wrote: »

If three years is enough to make someone Irish, then I don't care if we field 23 naturalised players. Either they're not Irish, and they shouldn't be in the jeraey, or they are Irish and they deserve to be treated the same as any other Irishman. Whether Aki is Irish enough to play in three years has absolutely nothing to do with any other players, and it shouldn't matter a damn whether the Irish team has Strauss, Stander and Payne or Cronin, Ruddock and Kearney.

No one is mentioning Welsh men here

Tox56

hahashake wrote: »

Don't the IRFU assist for project players?

Don't think so. Even if they did they still couldn't compete with France/Japan

Riskymove

desertcircus wrote: »

If three years is enough to make someone Irish, then I don't care if we field 23 naturalised players.

well I guess that's where we disagree

I'd rather we developed the sport so that we can produce our own players to the required level than hire 23 foreigners and naturalise them

desertcircus

Riskymove wrote: »

well I guess that's where we disagree

I'd rather we developed the sport so that we can produce our own players to the required level than hire 23 foreigners and naturalise them

I'd rather see the national team be made up of the best 23 Irishmen for the gameplan. Being a born Irishman doesn't make anyone better than a naturalised citizen. Richardt Strauss is Irish and so is Leo Auva'a: the fact that Strauss came in as a project player while Leo came from the bottom up makes no difference to that fact. If you're Irish and you're the best option, get on the pitch.

Tox56

Riskymove wrote: »

well I guess that's where we disagree

I'd rather we developed the sport so that we can produce our own players to the required level than hire 23 foreigners and naturalise them

This has come up a few times, do people really think we aren't already doing that? We just won a 6 Nations with no project players

Riskymove

Tox56 wrote: »

This has come up a few times, do people really think we aren't already doing that? We just won a 6 Nations with no project players

of course we are and that's what I'd rather see happening into the future

Riskymove

desertcircus wrote: »

If you're Irish and you're the best option, get on the pitch.

so you'd be happy if we recruited 23 foreigners in time to be IQ for the world cup and really be happy that this was "Ireland" and you think they'd get the same kind of support?

I wouldn't be anyway

awec

Tox56 wrote: »

Don't think so. Even if they did they still couldn't compete with France/Japan

Are you sure? They assist with NIQ wages, I'd be surprised if project players are different.

sydthebeat

Riskymove wrote: »

so you'd be happy if we recruited 23 foreigners in time to be IQ for the world cup and really be happy that this was "Ireland" and you think they'd get the same kind of support?

I wouldn't be anyway

there is absolutely no evidence of anything remotely resembling a policy like that.... your "thin edge of the wedge" argument is baseless.

marc96

desertcircus wrote: »

I'd rather see the national team be made up of the best 23 Irishmen for the gameplan. Being a born Irishman doesn't make anyone better than a naturalised citizen. Richardt Strauss is Irish and so is Leo Auva'a: the fact that Strauss came in as a project player while Leo came from the bottom up makes no difference to that fact. If you're Irish and you're the best option, get on the pitch.

Richardt Strauss is not irish,born and bred in SA,no irish connection at all!

.ak

I think the issue of morality seems to be on everyone's agenda. I think all that went out the window once the game turned professional. I have no issue with anyone who qualifies to play for Ireland through the current rules to play. After all, once they declare for Ireland they can only play for Ireland. That takes a massive amount of commitment from a player, on personal and professional levels. I leave my sense of morality at the door on this one.

former legend

marc96 wrote: »

Richardt Strauss is not irish,born and bred in SA,no irish connection at all!

I think you missed the point there.

desertcircus is saying that it's possible to become Irish.

Riskymove

sydthebeat wrote: »

there is absolutely no evidence of anything remotely resembling a policy like that.... your "thin edge of the wedge" argument is baseless.

of course there isn't

it's a hypotethical discussion about how far things could go before people have an issue

desertcircus said he had no issue with 23 IQ foreigners being selected so i was just challenging that

Riskymove

.ak wrote: »

I think the issue of morality seems to be on everyone's agenda.

my moral concerns would be about the IRFU possible approach to this

I have no issues with individuals becoming IQ

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I think the issue of morality seems to be on everyone's agenda. I think all that went out the window once the game turned professional. I have no issue with anyone who qualifies to play for Ireland through the current rules to play. After all, once they declare for Ireland they can only play for Ireland. That takes a massive amount of commitment from a player, on personal and professional levels. I leave my sense of morality at the door on this one.

I'd take a slightly different approach which involves invoking my morality to justify it. If a guy makes Ireland his home should we deny him the right to play international rugby because he wasn't "lucky enough" to be born here?

If someone gets naturalised here and then fecks off for the paycheck the moment he does then yes I'd have an issue with that. If a guy sets down his roots and his family here and intends to stay then he's more than welcome.

marc96

former legend wrote: »

I think you missed the point there.

desertcircus is saying that it's possible to become Irish.

How??born is SA.that can't be taken away.i was born white I can't turn black??

.ak

marc96 wrote: »

How??born is SA.that can't be taken away.i was born white I can't turn black??

Thankfully nationality transcends skin colour or appearance then.

ScissorPaperRock

The idea of having an all born-and/or-raised in Ireland team is nice, I'm definitely willing to compromise to a small extent (probably no more than 2 players) for two things:

A) Results
Seeing what players in the class of Payne can bring to the Irish team

Call me fickle, but if playing winning, exciting rugby comes at the cost of a little compromise here and there, then I'm all for it!