organic farming

Say my name

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Got that email as well...

Bit steep I thought, for a half dozen WEB sessions?

I see a few more 'courses' now being offered this year under that same banner.

They are no doubt about it seeing the opportunities to make a few quid.
Potentially big few quid at that.

Water John

The full year course with Jim Cronin is good value. A person with a natural flair for that horticultural area could build a business in their own area, just on the basis of that course.

auspicious

Panch18 wrote: »

I'll tell you what - why don't we band you and you can report back to us on the various stages of pain that you feel following the castration

That's the first threat I've received online or in my adult life.
Sadly we'll never meet. Unlike the unfortunate animal I am able to defend myself.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

The full year course with Jim Cronin is good value. A person with a natural flair for that horticultural area could build a business in their own area, just on the basis of that course.

Yeah I signed up for the one starting in January, really looking forward to it!

endainoz

auspicious wrote: »

That's the first threat I've received online or in my adult life.
Sadly we'll never meet. Unlike the unfortunate animal I am able to defend myself.

Wrong thread chief, After hours is thataway.

Dinzee Conlee

Came across this link last night...

I wasnt sure where to post this, but this thread might suit it...

https://ti.to/biabeag/fermentation3/en

The first speaker might be interesting...

Just said I’d throw it up...

Markcheese

Water John wrote: »

The full year course with Jim Cronin is good value. A person with a natural flair for that horticultural area could build a business in their own area, just on the basis of that course.

If you're going doing veg ect ,know your potential market ,check out the high end restaurants in your area and find out what the chefs want and when ... are there any local markets/ or even shops that you can get your produce into , even a road side stall and an honesty box while your starting off ...

Earnshaw

anyone who is a new entrant to the organic scheme received payment yet? or know when payments are likely to be for 'in conversion' farmers? Thanks.

endainoz

Yeah got my payment just before Christmas, seems to vary a bit for people. Might be worth giving the department a call, but seen as it's an Irish government Dept, I'd say you won't get through until Monday.

tractorporn

For anyone thinking of getting into organic milk theres going to be a dispersal sale of the biggest organic dairy herd in the country in Donegal in February. I think they have over 1000 cows so should be plenty for lads, especially organic beef lads thinking of changing.

endainoz

Quick question folks, does the organic payment come in one part or is it split like GLAS?

manjou

endainoz wrote: »

Quick question folks, does the organic payment come in one part or is it split like GLAS?

Split in 2 75 or 85% before Christmas rest may or June.

Earnshaw

Had a episode of viral pneumonia amongst my yearlings.

Ended up immediately having to give a lot of them an oral dose. It's written in my book now. What's the procedure with getting a derogation in relation to this?

adne

Any thoughts on if the organic scheme will open again... if so when?

endainoz

adne wrote: »

Any thoughts on if the organic scheme will open again... if so when?

It won't be until CAP is sorted I'd say, but there may be an environmental push sooner than that.

Water John

Possibly 2 years. One way to possibly be sure of getting in then is, to convert and join IOA or Organic Trust. You'll miss out on the conversion payments and go straight to the base organic payment.
Might not work for you, but it's my plan.

manjou

Earnshaw wrote: »

Had a episode of viral pneumonia amongst my yearlings.

Ended up immediately having to give a lot of them an oral dose. It's written in my book now. What's the procedure with getting a derogation in relation to this?

If vet came out and prescribed dose then you won't need derogation as animal welfare issue.

endainoz

In the organic course we did last summer, we were told about broadcasting clover in cut Meadows to fix nitrogen using granulated lime as a mixing agent. It's definitely something I'll be doing for the Meadows, particularly in one that doesn't get much slurry as it can be hard to access in the spring when the slurry would normally go out.

But my question is would it be possible to broadcast other seeds on ground with the intention of improving soil fertility/plant doversity And also would it be possible to broadcast tightly grazed grazing ground or in a field just topped?

Water John

If that is sort of wet ground, clover won't like it.
John McHugh was on Ecoeye earlier this week with a very diverse sward he uses for mob grazing. Don't know how he established it
I'm wondering about doing it too, thinking a guttler drill into the meadow.
I have some fields that are 23 years organic, I would like more diverse plants in them.

If you have sheep you can feed the clover seed to the sheep.

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

If that is sort of wet ground, clover won't like it.
John McHugh was on Ecoeye earlier this week with a very diverse sward he uses for mob grazing. Don't know how he established it
I'm wondering about doing it too, thinking a guttler drill into the meadow.
I have some fields that are 23 years organic, I would like more diverse plants in them.

If you have sheep you can feed the clover seed to the sheep.

I don't keep sheep, I know they would be handy to keep newly seeded ground in good condition. One of the speakers from bio farm had a video explaining how he spread wild flower seeds from one meadow to another and it was really interesting.

https://youtu.be/-JrbO96rQQo

adne

Water John wrote: »

Possibly 2 years. One way to possibly be sure of getting in then is, to convert and join IOA or Organic Trust. You'll miss out on the conversion payments and go straight to the base organic payment.
Might not work for you, but it's my plan.

What's the organic conversion payments worth? How much it cost to be accepted into IOA or organic trust?

Water John

Conversion €220/ha
Full status €170/Ha

My annual sub is €540 to IOA.

I saw his seed harvesting. A bit painful I thought. Don't think I want to go that far. If I could get a seed mix and stitch it in, I'll go that way.

tractorporn

adne wrote: »

What's the organic conversion payments worth? How much it cost to be accepted into IOA or organic trust?

Conversion payments are 220/ha which drops to 170/ha after the two years are done. The fees are area based so I depends on how much land you have certified my initial fee was 399 and my licence fee is 460

adne

Water John wrote: »

Conversion €220/ha
Full status €170/Ha

My annual sub is €540 to IOA.

I saw his seed harvesting. A bit painful I thought. Don't think I want to go that far. If I could get a seed mix and stitch it in, I'll go that way.

It's not great money so when consider additional income on say 30 ha will only be around 5k but there will be additional costs in terms of annual membership. Meal costs etc

endainoz

adne wrote: »

It's not great money so when consider additional income on say 30 ha will only be around 5k but there will be additional costs in terms of annual membership. Meal costs etc

I won't be buying much meal as it's too expensive compared to conventional meal. There is also an extra cost for bedding animals and the added labour of cleaning out sheds.

But you have to factor in no bills for chemical fert, not spending as much on doses and of course getting a better price selling into the organic market, it's definitely worth it for me.

adne

endainoz wrote: »

I won't be buying much meal as it's too expensive compared to conventional meal. There is also an extra cost for bedding animals and the added labour of cleaning out sheds.

But you have to factor in no bills for chemical fert, not spending as much on doses and of course getting a better price selling into the organic market, it's definitely worth it for me.

How are animals treated for fluke worms and lice?

endainoz

adne wrote: »

How are animals treated for fluke worms and lice?

Essentially, they aren't. It's all about preventative care, as part of a conversion application, you are required to do a herd health plan with your vet.

Controlling worms is easy, once you understand the life cycle of a worm and employ a strict grazing plan, using a paddock system, leaving a grazed field idle for 25 days to ensure all worms die. The months of June/July/August are peak times for work growth, too many people dose at the wrong times of the year and wonder why animals are becoming more resistant to it.

With my health plan I am allowed to vaccinate for blackleg as it's known in the area.

Fluke prevention is mostly avoiding wet areas but in fairness my land is fairly dry so it's not normally an issue for me. Lice prevention involves keeping a reasonably clean shed.

It should also be noted that if you do ever have a sick animal, you can treat them with whatever is needed from a vet. You just need something signed by the vet explaining why the animal needed it.

Water John

You can use a natural product called, diatomaceous earth, for liver fluke. doesn't do other worms.
If you are finishing cattle you may need red clover/grass mix silage or some do crimped crops. The crimped crop gives both the straw and a finishing ration.
I have weanlings on straw and they feed on the slats. Very little work in it. Bedding once/twice a week and not a lot of straw.

wrangler

endainoz wrote: »

Essentially, they aren't. It's all about preventative care, as part of a conversion application, you are required to do a herd health plan with your vet.

Controlling worms is easy, once you understand the life cycle of a worm and employ a strict grazing plan, using a paddock system, leaving a grazed field idle for 25 days to ensure all worms die. The months of June/July/August are peak times for work growth, too many people dose at the wrong times of the year and wonder why animals are becoming more resistant to it.

With my health plan I am allowed to vaccinate for blackleg as it's known in the area.

Fluke prevention is mostly avoiding wet areas but in fairness my land is fairly dry so it's not normally an issue for me. Lice prevention involves keeping a reasonably clean shed.

It should also be noted that if you do ever have a sick animal, you can treat them with whatever is needed from a vet. You just need something signed by the vet explaining why the animal needed it.

aren't all withdrawal times for doses/medicines majorly extended

Water John

Usually double, but that isn't a major imposition. However if an animal is treated twice with antibiotics, that animal loses it's organic status.

endainoz

Have also started using seaweed meal as a pre calfer, cows are mad for it.

50HX

endainoz wrote: »

Have also started using seaweed meal as a pre calfer, cows are mad for it.

Where are you sourcing the seaweed meal

Earnshaw

If you've given antibiotics that were prescribed by a vet in an viral outbreak of pneumonia, then what type of documentation do you need from the vet?

endainoz

Has anybody read this premium article from farming independent?

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/comment/darragh-mccullough-live-by-the-sward-mixing-it-up-can-save-you-money-and-help-the-environment-39160940.html

Going by the sub headline it looks like Darragh McCullough was influenced in by big way at Bio Farm!

Water John

I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
Sorry, don't have access to the article.

Markcheese

Water John wrote: »

I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
Sorry, don't have access to the article.

I always thought the dm figures for single species of rye grass in a given year were good for that specific year and that specific farm ,
We get a variety of weather conditions ,so really need a mix of forage that performs over 10 or 20 years , no good having something that doesn't do well in the dry ,if you have a drought ... Or a variety that produces vast volumes only in summer, especially if youve had a long winter and cold spring ...

Panch18

What kind of money are Glenisk paying for milk in both winter and summer? Will they take as much as you can produce?

Any other processor in the market for organic milk?

Water John

TMK Glenisk aren't great payers. The Little Milk Co would be one. I think a few of the liquid milk processors run an organic line, Arrabawn and Aurivo maybe.
Some producers have to do some home sales so that they can rise their av price per litre.

Panch18

Water John wrote: »

TMK Glenisk aren't great payers. The Little Milk Co would be one. I think a few of the liquid milk processors run an organic line, Arrabawn and Aurivo maybe.
Some producers have to do some home sales so that they can rise their av price per litre.

Is there really a market there then for dairy farmers if they have to go selling themselves?

Water John

As often with niche, structure is the problem. I eat some organic products. One that I use is cheddar but the only organic cheddar I know of comes in from the UK. It is very nice and I buy it in Lidl.

tractorporn

Panch18 wrote: »

Is there really a market there then for dairy farmers if they have to go selling themselves?

A few lads are selling themselves but that is just a side line and it's only like 4/5 of them. Biggest taker of milk is Glenisk, followed closely by Aurivo, Arrabawn all of which up until recently were offering contracts for organic milk. The little milk company is a co op of 10 farmers and as far as I can make out is a closed shop

endainoz

Water John wrote: »

I was at that event and he seemed genuinely open minded to the alt options being proposed. Multi species sward was probably a first step for anyone not totally taken in by the singular view of the Dept, Teagasc and Industry.
Sorry, don't have access to the article.

Did you look any further into stitching the ground to establish a multi species award? I suppose it might be worth it just for an experiment in a small area

Water John

I did over sow oats with a multi grass and clover mix last year. It's not very good looking atm, lot of plantain. Will be able to judge it better after the first cut.
The permanent grass and meadow areas I haven't tackled yet.

endainoz

Was the the "rejuvination mix" from western seeds by any chance? Thinking of getting a few bags of it.

Water John

Fruit Hill Farm in West Cork. Mix 2.3 Grass/Red Clover.
Not sure how I will upgrade old pastures. I'm inclined, at some stage to redden it a bit and scatter seed, light harrow and roll. Neighbour used only a leveller. Used a number of runs and it was a success. Didn't kill off all the old grass but upgraded it with the new grass. I'd probably go later in the year, when the soil is warm and give the white clover , the best chance.

endainoz

Here is a screenshot of the Darragh McCullough article for anyone who's interested.

Water John

Was searching for the right type of harrow/seeder to rejuvenate old ground. the Rakemann 3000 seemed suitable. Then came across this old Boards thread, where Reggie had NHG had bought it. Looks the business
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2057178322&page=2

blue5000

What are organic farmers using for silage?
I'm not sure whether to use a mix of
Aston crusader, Italian rye 9kg
barblanco white clover 1kg
Milvus red clover 4kg

or

Abergain tetraploid 5kg
Aberchoice 4kg
Drumbo 2kg
Milvus red clover 2kg

I've had a red clover + Italian mix before, the red clover lasted 4 years, the rye grass is still there. But I left it go to seed in 2018 (drought) and only cut it once late in that year.

Will the high performance abers in the 2nd mix last with the red clover nitrogen only?
My plan is to stitch white clover into the second mix in year 3 after the red clover has died out and leave it as permanent grass for another 6/7 years.

Gawddawggonnit

endainoz wrote: »

Here is a screenshot of the Darragh McCullough article for anyone who's interested.

Lol.
The dairy jihadis like to call him a failed farmer, click baiter, headline seeker, gob****e etc...however this article may be lacking in depth, but it makes up for it with fact.

The last paragraph is absolutely shocking. People should resign or be fired without their golden pension. Jesus wept.

Gawddawggonnit

blue5000 wrote: »

What are organic farmers using for silage?
I'm not sure whether to use a mix of
Aston crusader, Italian rye 9kg
barblanco white clover 1kg
Milvus red clover 4kg

or

Abergain tetraploid 5kg
Aberchoice 4kg
Drumbo 2kg
Milvus red clover 2kg

I've had a red clover + Italian mix before, the red clover lasted 4 years, the rye grass is still there. But I left it go to seed in 2018 (drought) and only cut it once late in that year.

Will the high performance abers in the 2nd mix last with the red clover nitrogen only?
My plan is to stitch white clover into the second mix in year 3 after the red clover has died out and leave it as permanent grass for another 6/7 years.

I didn’t know you were organic...when did you change over?