SIRO - ESB/Vodafone Fibre To The Home

mass_debater

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

What's eVDSL, and whats the difference from the current VDSL from cabinets?

No vectoring

ED E

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

What's eVDSL, and whats the difference from the current VDSL from cabinets?

Same technology but the kit is located in racks inside the exchange vs street cabinets.

COMREG and the other line operators have agreed with eircom to limit the frequencies used for eVDSL for crosstalk mitigation reasons. It also requires System Level Vectoring for vectoring to work which means they might not be vectored straight away.

7upfree

Mr. G wrote: »

There wouldn't be competition us less the market was opened up. E.g. upc.

You're 100% right of course. But didn't upc forge ahead themselves? That had little to do with comreg.

Nollog

It's almost 2015, so excite.

bloodyhawk

If only we had a specific layout map. That would be great!

bk

bloodyhawk wrote: »

If only we had a specific layout map. That would be great!

It would. It would also be great for their competitors Eircom and UPC, who would then know what areas to target with door to door sales people and special offers to lock people into 18 month contracts, etc.

This is why they tend not to give detailed rollout maps.

Azhrei

Good point. It's hard to be patient, though, when faced with such awesome technology that'll finally let us say goodbye to the phone line for good!

bloodyhawk

When did the say they were going to start the phase 1 roll out again? I forgot was is early January?

Nollog

http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/news/current/Improve-Network-Scalability.htm
Does this mean anything for us?

Probably old.

dalta5billion

/\/ollog wrote: »

http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/news/current/Improve-Network-Scalability.htm
Does this mean anything for us?

Probably old.

This might be used for their backhauls? It does say December 2014.

doubie

Sell the licences to run the networks but never the networks.

Infrastructure will only ever be upgraded based on profit, if privately owned.
If state owned, the upgrades are based on the needs of the country.

That is the lesson that I hope will be learned, from the Telecom Eireann sale.

Johnboy1951

doubie wrote: »

Sell the licences to run the networks but never the networks.

Infrastructure will only ever be upgraded based on profit, if privately owned.
If state owned, the upgrades are based on the needs of the country.

That is the lesson that I hope will be learned, from the Telecom Eireann sale.

A vain hope based on the expressed interest in selling off other public assets .....

dbit

doubie wrote: »

Sell the licences to run the networks but never the networks.

Infrastructure will only ever be upgraded based on profit, if privately owned.
If state owned, the upgrades are based on the needs of the country.

That is the lesson that I hope will be learned, from the Telecom Eireann sale.

Last three private owners of eircom posted net profits on all previous years - they all made money and ran off with profits , doling out said profits to the investors and nothing being put back into infrastructure.

Eircom dominance is coming to an end thank christ . ( Thought it would never happen)

murphaph

Eircom is pumping money into their network now though (and yes, that's because competition has forced them to, but who cares, it's happening). Ireland will have 3 large and strong telecoms infrastructure companies. That's really positive stuff. The last thing you want is Eircom to be destroyed as then you're back to 2 companies and as Vodafone are sniffing around UPC you could be back to one! A strong Eircom is a good thing, so long as they're not alone.

dbit

UPC are just as big as vodafone they span the whole of Europe, In my eyes Eircom is the mickey mouse player in all of this as they span well the whole of Ireland only. My disgust with Eircom i think is justified when i see how they operate as a business and how they abuse people in the country side with no other option , they are the bully in the playground that needs an indefinite time out in some remote dark corner of the universe . Nothing anyone could do or say will ever change my mind about Eircom , @ Murphaph , I do agree with you more market diversity is always a good thing only Eircom i have seen sting people over and over and they do not deserve the respect of an upstanding water meter paying citizen lolz.

ED E

dbit wrote: »

UPC are just as big as vodafone they span the whole of Europe, In my eyes Eircom is the mickey mouse player in all of this as they span well the whole of Ireland only. My disgust with Eircom i think is justified when i see how they operate as a business and how they abuse people in the country side with no other option , they are the bully in the playground that needs an indefinite time out in some remote dark corner of the universe . Nothing anyone could do or say will ever change my mind about Eircom , @ Murphaph , I do agree with you more market diversity is always a good thing only Eircom i have seen sting people over and over and they do not deserve the respect of an upstanding water meter paying citizen lolz.

UPC(Liberty):

As of December 31, 2013, it had an annual revenue of $17.3 billion. Its cable services pass 47 million homes, with 24.5 million customers or 48.3 million RGUs (video, internet, and voice subscribers)[3]

Vodafone:

measured by both subscribers and 2013 revenues (behind China Mobile), and had 434 million subscribers as of 31 March 2014.

Vodafone are huge. They're the one that eircom is really scared to death of.

dbit

ED E wrote: »

UPC(Liberty):


Vodafone:


Vodafone are huge. They're the one that eircom is really scared to death of.

Ye the vodafone one though is including mobile as well as landline , UPc's home penetration is on par with Vodafone only in terms of hardlines. Eircom are pissing their knickers now as you see the new video with some lad in Mayo with fiber to the home as he runs 6 websites from his house selling medical equip lolz. Eircom will need this medical equip to deal with the seizures they have when they see the customer base disappearing lolz. I couldn't laugh hard enough at that fiber to the home video. And they mention that their FTTH is going to be a premium cost service , all the while esb voda will resell as if it was NGA price wise .

dbit

dbit wrote: »

Ye the vodafone one though is including mobile as well as landline , UPc's home penetration is on par with Vodafone only in terms of hardlines. Eircom are pissing their knickers now as you see the new video with some lad in Mayo with fiber to the home as he runs 6 websites from his house selling medical equip lolz. Eircom will need this medical equip to deal with the seizures they have when they see the customer base disappearing lolz. I couldn't laugh hard enough at that fiber to the home video. And they mention that their FTTH is going to be a premium cost service , all the while esb voda will resell as if it was NGA price wise .

And im sure your man in the video has a family member in eircom lolz. ( Not fact just a joking guess)

Nollog

dbit wrote: »

Ye the vodafone one though is including mobile as well as landline , UPc's home penetration is on par with Vodafone only in terms of hardlines. Eircom are pissing their knickers now as you see the new video with some lad in Mayo with fiber to the home as he runs 6 websites from his house selling medical equip lolz. Eircom will need this medical equip to deal with the seizures they have when they see the customer base disappearing lolz. I couldn't laugh hard enough at that fiber to the home video. And they mention that their FTTH is going to be a premium cost service , all the while esb voda will resell as if it was NGA price wise .

can i has see video?

also, I think esbt's ftth will be expensive, they haven't talked about price yet have they?

dbit

/\/ollog wrote: »

can i has see video?

also, I think esbt's ftth will be expensive, they haven't talked about price yet have they?

its on the main page of the eircom wholesale site should be first thing you see on landing page. Yer man looks like his six web servers need that speed lmao. Ordering and stock , super critical ftth needed There lols.

murphaph

dbit wrote: »

its on the main page of the eircom wholesale site should be first thing you see on landing page. Yer man looks like his six web servers need that speed lmao. Ordering and stock , super critical ftth needed There lols.

You've missed the point of FTTH to one off properties. Copper is next to useless for around 700,000 premises in Ireland because of the settlement patterns (houses to dispersed to make VDSL or CATV internet viable). FTTH is basically the ONLY show in town that will be able to deliver decent broadband (enough to stream a few HD streams simultaneously or whatever) to those 700,000 premises. For that guy it was possibly that he went from ADSL1 or even possibly dial up to FTTH speeds and stability. That's what that trial is about: Eircom want to know the practicalities of FTTH in such a setting and want to get a feel for the true cost of such a network, possibly in anticipation of tendering for the NBP. They can't tender without knowing what it will realistically cost and you need to actually connect a few premises up to see what hiccups you may face, hiccups that may well add significantly to the final cost.

Danny Boy

That's the point - as per the Nbp call for inputs - eircom are saying ftth is the only cost effective solution for most of the Nbp - the trial is there to prove the concept. Wireless would be useless for Netflix, Apple TV etc due to the download caps

dbit

Ok lads im just saying you can run 6 websites of that nature from a 20 20 symmetrical connection and still stream multiple videos the average netflix stream requires 100KBs constant ( And low latency ping) to stand itself up in a stable fashion. I dont think his websites will see rush times like a busy day @ ticket master to be fair.

FTTH is overkill in that video . I understand its a positive move and im pissing all over the happy vibes. I just cant shake the cynical attitude when it involves Eircom. The solution yer man in Mayo has is great but for gods sake how can they push that video when the rollout is expected to begin in 2017 . its fasle promises landing well after the game has finished . They have done this as a knee jerk reaction to ESB Vodafone's FTTH launch . The ESB Voda is now rolling out , But for eircom its quiet some time away and i feel its not even going to happen for eircom , simply a publicity stunt . They have not come near completing the vdsl - evdsl mess and they then tell everyone , no no no we are doing ftth as well. If they do FTTH then all they are back pulling up ducts in and around housing estates - something they have avoided until now with fttc. I don't think its going to land any where near the predicted dates they advertise . Tis like giving a granny a Ferrari and saying you'll be super fast at the shopping now.


@Danny Boy i know plenty of people in Tipperary area on 2 MB wisps and not a bother with netflix.

dbit

/\/ollog wrote: »

can i has see video?

also, I think esbt's ftth will be expensive, they haven't talked about price yet have they?

Regarding price im hoping this all plays out like it does in Switzerland , they pay roughly 30 a month for one gig synchronous connections.

bk

dbit wrote: »

Regarding price im hoping this all plays out like it does in Switzerland , they pay roughly 30 a month for one gig synchronous connections.

I doubt it will be that cheap.

However it really can't be more expensive then the existing services, so I'd expect about €40 to €50

While yes it will be much faster then VDSL, the reality is most people are perfectly fine with 40 to 100mb/s VDSL. Most people won't see much difference moving to FTTH, so it would be hard from them to charge a premium for the higher speeds of FTTH. Instead they will need to use higher speeds of 1GB/s as a way to draw people from VDSL at the same price. Much in the same way we have seen UPC use the higher speeds of cable to draw customers from ADSL and VDSL for the same or only slightly lower price.

dbit

bk wrote: »

I doubt it will be that cheap.

However it really can't be more expensive then the existing services, so I'd expect about €40 to €50

While yes it will be much faster then VDSL, the reality is most people are perfectly fine with 40 to 100mb/s VDSL. Most people won't see much difference moving to FTTH, so it would be hard from them to charge a premium for the higher speeds of FTTH. Instead they will need to use higher speeds of 1GB/s as a way to draw people from VDSL at the same price. Much in the same way we have seen UPC use the higher speeds of cable to draw customers from ADSL and VDSL for the same or only slightly lower price.

Yes this is true only upc have started a little tactic of their own . Buddy is on 200MB with 20 up in Dublin . they called him the other day to say " We have a little bad news, we are increasing your price from 50 a month to Sixty " the agent goes on to say but we are increasing your download speed to a 250MB down ..........

Isps will use all sorts of tactics to move the cattle through the ether greens, or sway them over to the dark side ..... . Interesting to see upc now opening up the taps for subscribers . Im sure the current Docsis gear out there (Client side) can handle 400MB down without effort. Wonder where they will go when fttc is more prevalent

bk

dbit wrote: »

Yes this is true only upc have started a little tactic of their own . Buddy is on 200MB with 20 up in Dublin . they called him the other day to say " We have a little bad news, we are increasing your price from 50 a month to Sixty " the agent goes on to say but we are increasing your download speed to a 250MB down ..........

I think your friend might be a little confused.

UPC only have 240mb/s and it costs €45 per month. Your friend most be getting other services too like TV to be paying €60. Otherwise he should call them and ask to be switched to the €45 240mb/s package.

It is certainly true that you should revenue your packages once a year, otherwise you might end up on a more expensive and slower package then is otherwise available. Yes, this sort of practice sucks, but it is pretty much true of every service we receive (gas, electricity, insurance of all types, etc.).

Danny Boy

dbit wrote: »

Ok lads im just saying you can run 6 websites of that nature from a 20 20 symmetrical connection and still stream multiple videos the average netflix stream requires 100KBs constant ( And low latency ping) to stand itself up in a stable fashion. I dont think his websites will see rush times like a busy day @ ticket master to be fair.

FTTH is overkill in that video . I understand its a positive move and im pissing all over the happy vibes. I just cant shake the cynical attitude when it involves Eircom. The solution yer man in Mayo has is great but for gods sake how can they push that video when the rollout is expected to begin in 2017 . its fasle promises landing well after the game has finished . They have done this as a knee jerk reaction to ESB Vodafone's FTTH launch . The ESB Voda is now rolling out , But for eircom its quiet some time away and i feel its not even going to happen for eircom , simply a publicity stunt . They have not come near completing the vdsl - evdsl mess and they then tell everyone , no no no we are doing ftth as well. If they do FTTH then all they are back pulling up ducts in and around housing estates - something they have avoided until now with fttc. I don't think its going to land any where near the predicted dates they advertise . Tis like giving a granny a Ferrari and saying you'll be super fast at the shopping now.


@Danny Boy i know plenty of people in Tipperary area on 2 MB wisps and not a bother with netflix.

But what's the point here? In the call for inputs ESB and eircom both say FTTH is the answer to most of the NBP area - VDSL isn't cost effective due to the number of cabinets required and the distances involved, Wireless is sub optimal in terms of throughput. Of course FTTH will deliver more bandwidth than is required for the foreseeable future, but it can be delivered effectively over ground (as compared to urban environments) and is a future proofed solution. The trial is just to establish that it can be done cost effectively to very rural areas. The actual product speed a user might end up using will be lower than 1G.

As for their broader FTTH rollout - they're already half way there in all of the ESB locations, and will have FTTH installed long before the ESB, the product profiles are mentioned in page 14 of their november document below.
http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Product_Roadmap/

bk

As pointed out, FTTH in rural areas, isn't about the incredible speeds it brings (though that is a very happy side effect), rather it is the best and surprisingly cheapest way to bring quality broadband * to rural areas.

* Quality broadband is defined as a minimum of 30mb/s even at heavy loaded peak times.

Eircom made it very clear in it's submission to Comreg with regards to the National Broadband Plan, that it would actually cost more to use VDSL or 4G to bring 30mb/s minimum to rural homes then using FTTH.

I realise that may seem counter intuitive, as FTTH is expensive, but here is the general reasons:

- VDSL - You would need to have a very high density of VDSL cabs in rural areas due to the fall off of speeds over distance of VDSL. Each cab is expensive to buy and install and then there are relatively high ongoing maintenance and electricity costs for it as it is an active piece of equipment.

- 4G - 4G is a shared medium. The more users you have, the slower the speeds. So in order to meet the minimum 30mb/s at peak time, you would again need to have a very dense network of 4G towers in rural areas. Again each 4G tower and equipment are very expensive to buy and install and expensive to maintain and run.

FTTH on the other hand, while expensive to initially install due to the cost of labour, tends to have very low running and maintenance costs. The reason is FTTH has far less active, powered equipment out in the field. It instead largely uses passive optical splitters, just greatly simplifying the ongoing maintenance and running costs.

A dense rural FTTH network is cheaper to build, run and maintain then either a dense rural VDSL or 4G network.

Danny Boy wrote:

As for their broader FTTH rollout - they're already half way there in all of the ESB locations, and will have FTTH installed long before the ESB, the product profiles are mentioned in page 14 of their november document below.
http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Product_Roadmap/

Very interesting doc, lots of interesting info, here is the quote in question:

New FTTH Variant
A new FTTH variant is proposed that will provide higher Broadband speed to customers. The proposed FTTH speeds are 150M, 300M and 1G. The FTTH footprint will also increase from Wexford and Sandyford to 66 other towns around Ireland.

Nollog

I think it'd start at 60 euro a month at first, gigabit, if they even offer gigabit day 1.
40 for upc-level speeds, which they def. will have day 1.

There's a lot of investment been made, and this is Ireland.

[I'm talking about ESBT, Eircom will probably try to charge 100]