LPG for me?

MichaelR

The problem is they explicitly said I have no cover to drive the car as modified until they give the go-ahead. So driving it that way would be an offense. I can hope not to get caught, but with a 100 km drive from the garage to home it doe snot sound like a great idea.

stimpson

I got my insurance through Glennons brokers. Give them a ring on the morning.

unkel

stimpson wrote: »

I got my insurance through Glennons brokers. Give them a ring on the morning.

I got my insurance through Glennons for many years driving performance V8 petrol saloons. Always the best quotes, never any bother - but sure enough, I never had any claims

MichaelR

Plans for tomorrow include hopefully a callback from a supervisor in Aviva, as well as asking Glennons, AIG, One Direct and JLT. All this trouble before anyone even touched the car itself...

Getting a diesel is surely much easier on the nerves! But in my case, much harder on the wallet, as changing the '07 car for a '07-'08 diesel would mean significant risk of expensive repairs in the coming years, while if I go for '11-'12, the necessary loan is simply going to be too high...

(Or should I opt for a '07 diesel replacement, I wonder. So much less hassle with pretty much everything, and an outlay of about 2k. But the risk of expensive problems is scary).

mullingar

If you are that concerned about driving it on LPG, just disconnect the wire going to the solenoid on the tank rendering it beyond use.

It has the exact same contents as a small red Propane cylinder you get in the shops that you would normally throw into the boot, but bolted down. In essence, you are driving the engine still as the manufacturer intended, so no modifications are applicable apart from a few little pieces bolted to the top which are doing nothing, just like furry dice, therefore normal insurance applies.

MichaelR

Thanks - this does sound like an interesting option. Temporarily disable the modification, drive home as normal, when Aviva approves cover re-enable it. I'll ask the fitters for the details on their particular installation.

Sounds like less bother than changing insurer.

I understand that I probably won't get caught anyway unless I am in an accident (a checkpoint will still see an insurance disc, and the number is valid for the car). The problem is, I have no guarantee I won't be in an accident through a 100 km journey. If the garage was next door I'd not worry.

5 penalty points and a possible disqualification is a bit too much to risk.

who_ru

MichaelR wrote: »

Thanks - this does sound like an interesting option. Temporarily disable the modification, drive home as normal, when Aviva approves cover re-enable it. I'll ask the fitters for the details on their particular installation.

Sounds like less bother than changing insurer.

I understand that I probably won't get caught anyway unless I am in an accident (a checkpoint will still see an insurance disc, and the number is valid for the car). The problem is, I have no guarantee I won't be in an accident through a 100 km journey. If the garage was next door I'd not worry.

5 penalty points and a possible disqualification is a bit too much to risk.

I had no problems with FBD - just give them a copy of the engineers report.

MichaelR

Engineers report from the garage, or an independent engineer was required?

Also, there was no gap in cover while they processed the report - you could drive the modified car all the time?

These are the two most painful questions for me... Ah, and did they up the premium I wonder?

stimpson

wonski wrote: »

The coil is a consumable part, don't think warranty would cover this tbh. You can ask anyway, you might get lucky twice in one go and not to pay anything (except the 20 euro note and few pints).

Just to finish this story - I rang Cameron Cars and he offered to replace the coil even though it wasn't strictly covered by the warranty.

MichaelR

Turns out asking Aviva for a chat with a supervisor was the right thing to do.

A lady has just called me and she was very helpful. She has confirmed that there will be no increase in premium, and that while an engineer's report is required, Aviva will continue cover while it processes the report (she said they will give me time to get the report into them too, but I'll probably try to send it from the garage anyway, when picking up the car). I can even drive on the gas in the meantime.

The only remaining question is whether they would accept an engineer's report from the garage as opposed to an independent assessor. This depends on the details of the garage, so I emailed her links to Autogas, LPGain, and APService, as well as a template insurance letter from Autogas (provided by them) and a sample from LPGain (thanks a lot, stimpson).

(I realized that anyone involved, from any of the garages and/or Aviva, might very well be reading this forum).

MichaelR

Unfortunately, Aviva do require an independent insurance assessor or a main dealer. The Kia main dealer won't do the inspection (they have always been friendly to me before, and I think I understand not wanting to inspect a system they know nothing about). The Cork mechanic said they do have one available, but it's an extra Eur 180 (sounds on the high side to me!) and also he would prefer if I get another insurer, to avoid encouraging the practice. (The assessor is indeed a legal requirement for taxis, which is why they have one).

I am trying other insurers. FBD are very friendly and do not require an independent assessor, but their quote is significantly (over 100 Eur) higher than what I paid with Aviva last year, with less extras on it too (no full NCB protection, and I think no legal aid). Also I still have 2 months on Aviva, and I suspect I'm likely to not get a significant refund if I cancel with them. I'll try Glennons too. I am a bit wary about trying AIG as they are somewhat new to the country. Anyone else I should try?

unkel

MichaelR wrote: »

Anyone else I should try?

All of them

I'm not joking, it will cost a couple of hours but could save you hundreds...

Mandzhalas

have my car converted to lpg.drove home on lpg.then rang 123.ie .they asked for engineers report(lpgain supplied it when converted) and couple pictures of install.hour later im insured.no increase in premium.and believe it or not price difference between TPFT and fully comprehensive was only 4 euro.
tpft-500
comprehensive -504

MichaelR

Being stubborn makes things better sometimes, though not as good as I'd like.

Aviva has agreed to keep me on cover and wait for the report until my renewal, which is a couple months away. At renewal I'll have their quote for renewal, while requiring the report by renewal. I'll be able to shop around and either switch or pay for the report, whichever is better for money.

unkel

Result, MichaelR!

daRobot

My god, Aviva really are just being purposely awkward and making you jump through hoops that the majority of other insurance companies wouldn't require unless you were a PSV.

A main dealer report? Please.... What in gods name would a main dealer know about an LPG system?

Allianz were perfectly fine with the cert that LPGain emailed over to them.

Get on the phone, and start bargaining down the other offers you get. You should be able to beat Aviva's price. They certainly don't deserve your business after messing you about like that.

stimpson

Glad to hear you got sorted. Some good advice here. Lots of insurance companies out there. Time to look for a new one.

goldenwonder

just rang a load of companies, most wont insure my car cause of its age and because of lpg.
brokers have less authority on the lpg they say.
liberty went up about 15%
both require a report from the installers to show its reputable.

MichaelR

They all require a report from the installers, Aviva wants one from an independent assessor.

I've been to Autogas Ireland in Cork today and saw Remik, who does the installations. he found me a very nice 72 L toroid tank; it fits into the weel well by diameter, but I'll have to raise the floor of the boot. He says that it's ok if the weight of the luggage is on the tank, as the tank can enev hold a car driving on it. He advised filling the boot with foam to level the floor; I don't want to do anything permanent (I can sometimes need the space around the tank), so I'd rather find some hard foam to stuff there - but wonder what shops to check looking for hard foam. If I can't find any I can make wood blocks but they would be heavier; or I can make wooden "legs" for the floor, but as the floor is plastic it might break if a heavy bag ends up at a side?

Any advice on where to get affordable hard foam would be appreciated. I can cut it to size and never mind it not looking too presentable, as it will not be visible. I just want to be abe to take it out and put it back in.

The Kia Cee'd is in the Prins list of cars that can have valve problems, so Remik agreed that a valve saver kit is necessary.

I'm (as far as I think presently) going for the Stag+Hana system, which he quoted at 1050 Euro with the 72 L tank and the valve lubrication system. The Prins with this same configuration would go up to 1500+ and while it is probably nicer and more economical on fuel, at my mileage (25 k a year) it would take a year and a half for the Prins to pay for itself while it takes a year for the Stag+Hana. The 10k service interval for the Stag is not a problem as Autogas Cork is near my work office, and I go there once a month anyway. he also said that the Prins valve saver system is more precise on getting an equal amount of lubrication fluid to all valves, but the kit he can fit with the Stag will probably do the job too (he said he might do some "spider" there to make it supply all cylinders, I did not really understand the details).

He can get me the independent assessor later if I decide to go for Aviva

I still have some days before the projected time and I would really appreciate advice if anyone thinks I'm doing anything wrong here.

MichaelR

On, and also, APService went off the list because he is too easy with words. He said a good car like the Cee'd should not require flashlube. But the Prins database file http://www.amrautos.co.uk/database_problem_cars.pdf actually says it DOES require flashlube.

BIG red flag...

And also he said there were no problems with Aviva for his customers. This may or may not be true - to me Aviva was firm they need an independent assessor, but he says they accepted his letter. But perhaps they accepted it without looking too closely.

Anyway I decided to go for the one to whom I can easily come back if a problem surfaces.

MichaelR

...well, the plot thickens. After a few days of waiting I finally got approved on lpgforums.co.uk and asked about my plan there. I was promptly sent to this thread:

http://www.lpgforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=13005

Thinking what to do now - I even booked time with the guys but if they are really bad I should cancel and go to LPGain instead? But I do need good relations in Cork so I can fuel and get serviced there! (Dublin every 10000 km is a bit hard). Also, if I have a problem with a Cork install it's easy to go back there; not easy with a Dublin install. Finally, Cork are good at customer service (by having a dedicated secretary) which is apparently unequalled.

Sorry for spamming the thread

P.S. Just had an idea - go for "honesty as best policy" and drop them that link, then keep the booking if I can post pictures to that forum? Especially with the time their secretary spent on battling insurance for me, I really don't want to just turn my back on them.

blancha

MichaelR wrote: »

They all require a report from the installers, Aviva wants one from an independent assessor.

I've been to Autogas Ireland in Cork today and saw Remik, who does the installations. he found me a very nice 72 L toroid tank; it fits into the weel well by diameter, but I'll have to raise the floor of the boot. He says that it's ok if the weight of the luggage is on the tank, as the tank can enev hold a car driving on it. He advised filling the boot with foam to level the floor; I don't want to do anything permanent (I can sometimes need the space around the tank), so I'd rather find some hard foam to stuff there - but wonder what shops to check looking for hard foam. If I can't find any I can make wood blocks but they would be heavier; or I can make wooden "legs" for the floor, but as the floor is plastic it might break if a heavy bag ends up at a side?

Any advice on where to get affordable hard foam would be appreciated. I can cut it to size and never mind it not looking too presentable, as it will not be visible. I just want to be abe to take it out and put it back in.

The Kia Cee'd is in the Prins list of cars that can have valve problems, so Remik agreed that a valve saver kit is necessary.

I'm (as far as I think presently) going for the Stag+Hana system, which he quoted at 1050 Euro with the 72 L tank and the valve lubrication system. The Prins with this same configuration would go up to 1500+ and while it is probably nicer and more economical on fuel, at my mileage (25 k a year) it would take a year and a half for the Prins to pay for itself while it takes a year for the Stag+Hana. The 10k service interval for the Stag is not a problem as Autogas Cork is near my work office, and I go there once a month anyway. he also said that the Prins valve saver system is more precise on getting an equal amount of lubrication fluid to all valves, but the kit he can fit with the Stag will probably do the job too (he said he might do some "spider" there to make it supply all cylinders, I did not really understand the details).

He can get me the independent assessor later if I decide to go for Aviva

I still have some days before the projected time and I would really appreciate advice if anyone thinks I'm doing anything wrong here.

I think, the garage that installs LPG system in your car, will not have an easy life with you. So you should choose really good one or forget about LPG.
Would be perfect to find good installer at same place you live or work.

A few things that better know. Even best LPG system wont work perfectly, when installed by beginner. Also many installers with "20 years experience" have no idea about 4th, 5th generation LPG systems.

Good LPG system?.

Perfect ECU with fast processor,
Efficient reducer that keeps stable pressure for long time / long time means many years,
Very fast and accurate injectors,
Job done by people that like their job and can do this perfectly.

Not worth saving on components quality. It's better to spend your money once.

MichaelR

blancha wrote: »

I think, the garage that installs LPG system in your car, will not have an easy life with you. So you should choose really good one or forget about LPG.
Would be perfect to find good installer at same place you live or work.

Yes, I tend to be quite strict when it comes to spending big money.

The problem is, I live in Limerick, work in Cork. Limerick only has one place (Walsh Commercials) which is very expensive and also possibly not very experienced. Cork has Remik in Autogas, who is blasted on that forum (and understandably does not want to debate it), and the very strange Cork Gas Systems.

The one with a great reputation on this forum is LPGain in Dublin. Also he is an auhorized STAG installer and STAG is where I am likely headed. The problem is that with LPGain, a 10k km service becomes more of an issue. (Unless I end up doing the service in Cork).

MichaelR

Any hint on the big Dublin vs Cork decision would be much appreciated as I have my brain in knots over it

stimpson

TBH, I think the installers on the UK LPG site will find something bad to say about any given install. They had criticised LPGains install too. Some had issues with Stag, and others as say it's the injectors they are packaged with in the UK.

From a sfaety point of view, with a toroidal tank it's vented through the floor if the boot, so I wouldn't be too concerned over that.

At the end over the day you get a 2 year guarantee with the Stag system with either installer.

MichaelR

Yes that IS true apparently. And Cork is way more convenient. But LPGain is famous on this site with a few happy customers apparently.

I also made the possible mistake of sending the UK forum link to the Cork guy, but I hope I can apologize and offer a wee bit extra for being a terrible pest, which I am but can't help it with this very important stuff. But I'll do this if I am SURE I am going for Cork.

I'll sit on this question for at least another day, perhaps two. And still take in any more information I can find...

MichaelR

Question: since when is LPGain around? References to it on this forum date from late '12.

blancha

MichaelR wrote: »

Question: since when is LPGain around? References to it on this forum date from late '12.

They do conversions 2 years in this country, don't know how long in Poland

goldenwonder

got mine done a few days ago, working pretty well,
only the gauge seems to be off or the tank is small, but its costing close to what i was hoping for,
and barely any difference in driving,
maybe slightly sluggish to start and just a bit noisier
very tidy job,
filler beside the petrol filler, the tank doesnt raise the boot too much, and the engine has shiny new parts

stimpson

goldenwonder wrote: »

got mine done a few days ago, working pretty well,
only the gauge seems to be off or the tank is small, but its costing close to what i was hoping for,
and barely any difference in driving,
maybe slightly sluggish to start and just a bit noisier
very tidy job,
filler beside the petrol filler, the tank doesnt raise the boot too much, and the engine has shiny new parts

If it's the Stag system the gauge is a bit off. I get around 40-50 miles per led but I've driven 80 miles in the red one without running out (57.2 litres). Tank is a 75l so should hold 60. I prefer to have a large reserve so I don't have to use petrol so it works for me.