LPG for me?

cadaliac

Some great info on this thread. I was considering an LPG conversion myself, at one point but couldn't justify the outlay for the job.
Well, in my case it would have been a stretch for me to come up with the cash up front - which was the main turn off. Then while I waited and procrastinated, I found myself nearly one year into ownership of the car. I usually only hold on to cars for 2 years - sometimes 3.
So i couldn't justify it now.I don't do the mileage, although my situation has changed lately and i lost a car pooling buddy so my mileage has increased (doubled). I also was very optimistic about the mpg on the car, and convinced myself it was returning ~30 mpg,when in real life I am looking at ~26 mpg.
Regardless, the conversion isn't for me. The returns simply don't justify the initial outlay and inconvenience. There isn't a station near me and I like the idea of a full spare in the boot.
From what I have read here - on these pages and elsewhere, I would have full confidence in a conversion and it does look quite attractive, for the right situation. My situation however doesn't suit and I will be giving it a skip - with this car at least.
To anybody with a thirsty car that they intend holding on to for a while, it really is the right way to go i believe.

mullingar

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought it was more like 10% these days ?

Don't believe all the hear'say. It's always 15-20% average. If you get 10%, your engine is running far too lean.

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm still thinking about it for the Prius but with 110k miles I'm not sure I want to invest in it, though it would pay me back in 6 months at 20-25 k miles a year.

I just don't know if it switches back to LPG once it's warmed up.

once it's wormed up, engine works on LPG only. LPG controller must have option "worm start". If there is no this option in LPG controller, system switch over to LPG, but always first a few sec. works on petrol.
No point to install LPG system without this option in Prius.

A few Italian systems don't close LPG solenoid valves for 30 sec. when switch over to petrol. System is in the "standby", but its very dangerous.
Italian systems also have "nice" option - driver doesn't know, that engine works on petrol with high or low revs -on idle or more than 4k, 5k revs.That's why there is option "standby".
When you drive Prius with good LPG system, every time when electric engine switch to combustion engine, you should hear the distinctive sound "click" of opening LPG solenoid valves.

Prius is only economic when drive in city. When drives on motorway
max 30MPG of petrol, 10-15% less on LPG - very optimistic.

650Ginge

blancha wrote: »

once it's wormed up, engine works on LPG only. LPG controller must have option "worm start". If there is no this option in LPG controller, system switch over to LPG, but always first a few sec. works on petrol.
No point to install LPG system without this option in Prius.

A few Italian systems don't close LPG solenoid valves for 30 sec. when switch over to petrol. System is in the "standby", but its very dangerous.
Italian systems also have "nice" option - driver doesn't know, that engine works on petrol with high or low revs -on idle or more than 4k, 5k revs.That's why there is option "standby".
When you drive Prius with good LPG system, every time when electric engine switch to combustion engine, you should hear the distinctive sound "click" of opening LPG solenoid valves.

Prius is only economic when drive in city. When drives on motorway
max 30MPG of petrol, 10-15% less on LPG - very optimistic.

Maybe I am wrong but based on the last paragraph which is complete bull**** I would suggest that everyone ignores this entire post as unfounded and not to be used to make a decision on lpg or not.

A Prius only doing 30 mpg, hahaha what idiot would say that.

@78

I worked it out there based on the 540 or so miles I did this week costing about 60 odd Euro's.

On lpg @78 c/l I'd save about 20 a week, so if it's correct I loose 20% then that would take about a year or 20k miles to recover the install costs. And that's at a pretty good 48 mpg on lpg v 60 on petrol.

I should have done it when i got it 3 years ago.

blancha

blancha wrote: »

Prius is only economic when drive in city. When drives on motorway
max 30MPG of petrol, 10-15% less on LPG - very optimistic.

I average 60-64 mpg motorway + town per tank.

I'm tired of this "on the motorway" and "in the city" bull****e.

What matters is your mpg per tank, not resetting the trip computer for each trip which is completely inaccurate.

blancha

650Ginge wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong but based on the last paragraph which is complete bull**** I would suggest that everyone ignores this entire post as unfounded and not to be used to make a decision on lpg or not.

A Prius only doing 30 mpg, hahaha what idiot would say that.

Drive on motorway doesn't mean 90km/h.
Did you try to press accelerator more?.
Go to Germany and try to drive 90 km/h on motorway...

650Ginge

blancha wrote: »

Drive on motorway doesn't mean 90km/h.
Did you try to press accelerator more?.

Yeah I actually own a Prius clearly you don't I drive at whatever ever speed I like and the law permits. That includes 180km/h in Germany two years ago. That's the max restricted speed a Prius can do. I also know for a fact what the mpg on the motorway at various speeds weather conditions and terrain is like because I actually drive one. You will never see 30mpg average over a tank.

So back you go into that imaginary world you live in where you come on the internet and everyone believes your an expert on everything. Truth being you actually know nothing, and your posted aren't rubbish. Hopefully no one makes a decision based on them.

650Ginge

blancha wrote: »

Drive on motorway doesn't mean 90km/h.
Did you try to press accelerator more?.
Go to Germany and try to drive 90 km/h on motorway...

Maybe your looking for boards.de. This is ireland who gives a flying f*** what they do in Germany it two ferries and over 1000kms away.

blancha

650Ginge wrote: »

Yeah I actually own a Prius clearly you don't I drive at whatever ever speed I like and the law permits. That includes 180km/h in Germany two years ago. That's the max restricted speed a Prius can do. I also know for a fact what the mpg on the motorway at various speeds weather conditions and terrain is like because I actually drive one. You will never see 30mpg average over a tank.

So back you go into that imaginary world you live in where you come on the internet and everyone believes your an expert on everything. Truth being you actually know nothing, and your posted aren't rubbish. Hopefully no one makes a decision based on them.

So, what's MPG when drive 180km/h ?. 60MPG?.

650Ginge

blancha wrote: »

So, what's MPG when drive 180km/h ?. 60MPG?.

Did anyone say it was?

I can't drive at 180 here in ireland so I can't check for you.

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

I average 60-64 mpg motorway + town per tank.

I'm tired of this "on the motorway" and "in the city" bull****e.

What matters is your mpg per tank, not resetting the trip computer for each trip which is completely inaccurate.

I personally know the owners of Priuses converted to LPG.
1.5 engines when drive economically takes average 7.5l of LPG per 100km which is 31.36 MPG.
1.8 engine with same driving 9-9.5l of LPG per 100km which is 26.14 - 24.76
Priuses that use hho together with LPG has better result.
that's not my imagination

blancha

blancha wrote: »

I personally know the owners of Priuses converted to LPG.
1.5 engines when drive economically takes average 7.5l of LPG per 100km which is 31.36 MPG.
1.8 engine with same driving 9-9.5l of LPG per 100km which is 26.14 - 24.76
Priuses that use hho together with LPG has better result.
that's not my imagination

Ah so you're talking lpg mpg not petrol mpg ?

That would be 50% loss on lpg compared to petrol and certainly not even remotely close to the reviews on the internet.

I don't see how the prius could get 50% less than any other converted petrol.

blancha

blancha wrote: »

Drive on motorway doesn't mean 90km/h.
Did you try to press accelerator more?.
Go to Germany and try to drive 90 km/h on motorway...

The Germans often drive at 90-100 kph, have you not seen how congested the Autobahn can be ?

stimpson

blancha wrote: »

I personally know the owners of Priuses converted to LPG.
1.5 engines when drive economically takes average 7.5l of LPG per 100km which is 31.36 MPG.
1.8 engine with same driving 9-9.5l of LPG per 100km which is 26.14 - 24.76
Priuses that use hho together with LPG has better result.
that's not my imagination

I'm no hybrid fanboy, but I'm calling bull**** in those numbers. If that was the case then why would anyone drive a Prius?

Unfortunately, you made a good point in your previous point which I think was missed. You need a system that will do a warm start. The Stag will start straight on LPG when warm. LPGain have done a Prius with a Stag/Hana setup. It might he worth talking to them and see what the story is. I have heard that the Atkinson cycle used by the Prius has issues with LPG, but not sure how true that is.

blancha

stimpson wrote: »

I'm no hybrid fanboy, but I'm calling bull**** in those numbers. If that was the case then why would anyone drive a Prius?

Unfortunately, you made a good point in your previous point which I think was missed. You need a system that will do a warm start. The Stag will start straight on LPG when warm. LPGain have done a Prius with a Stag/Hana setup. It might he worth talking to them and see what the story is. I have heard that the Atkinson cycle used by the Prius has issues with LPG, but not sure how true that is.

Once more time. MPG of Priuses it's not my imagination. That's experience of users Priuses and I don't care somebody believe or not, but it's true.

blancha

blancha wrote: »

Once more time. MPG of Priuses it's not my imagination. That's experience of users Priuses and I don't care somebody believe or not, but it's true.

Are you trying to tell us there is a 50% loss when converting the Prius to lpg ?

Or the prius can't do more than 30 mpg in General ?

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you trying to tell us there is a 50% loss when converting the Prius to lpg ?

Or the prius can't do more than 30 mpg in General ?

I'm not trying to tell you. That's only experience of Priuse's users.

blancha

I also asked taxi driver of rented Prius from company that advertise 130mpg on it. It was Prius with 1.8 engine without hho converted with Zenit system. He said it takes 9.8l per 100km which is 24MPG. How he checked it. Simple - full tank LPG, day odo to zero, do some kilometers or miles if better to calculate.

example : 39.2l LPG for 400 km

39.2/400=9.8l/100km

Please don't tell it's bul... because I asked a few times.
I'm not dealer of Honda...

stimpson

Here's a non imaginary one doing 47 mpg in town and 56 on motorway.

http://priuschat.com/threads/toyota-prius-2nd-gen-converted-to-lpg-hybrid.82168/

Its interesting that he's using a Stag controller.

blancha

blancha wrote: »

I also asked taxi driver of rented Prius from company that advertise 130mpg on it. It was Prius with 1.8 engine without hho converted with Zenit system. He said it takes 9.8l per 100km which is 24MPG. How he checked it. Simple - full tank LPG, day odo to zero, do some kilometers or miles if better to calculate.

example : 39.2l LPG for 400 km

39.2/400=9.8l/100km

Please don't tell it's bul... because I asked a few times.
I'm not dealer of Honda...

Let me ask again,

Are you saying the prius does 30 mpg on petrol and or lpg ?

BTW HHO conversion are supposed to be a rip off as no one gets the promised savings.

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

Let me ask again,

Are you saying the prius does 30 mpg on petrol and or lpg ?

I'm saying about experience of Priuses users converted to LPG. I think it was very clear before...

blancha

blancha wrote: »

I'm saying about experience of Priuses users converted to LPG. I think it was very clear before...

It probably was not installed properly as I've never heard from all the Prius LPG conversions of 30 mpg, i.e a 50% loss !

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

It probably was not installed properly as I've never heard from all the Prius LPG conversions of 30 mpg, i.e a 50% loss !

I asked about result 7.5l/100km of Prius with 1.5l engine.
The technicians of LPG systems producer / huge company selling all over the world / said that it's great result in comparison with others converted Priuses...

blancha

Deleted User wrote: »

It probably was not installed properly as I've never heard from all the Prius LPG conversions of 30 mpg, i.e a 50% loss !

Prius 1.8l with consumption more than 9l/100km converted in Kilcullen.
I think they know how to do conversion, so installed properly.
Ask them. They probably will confirm.
Tel. to Kilcullen is 045 944 644
Please call tomorrow and then write something.
I'm not an idiot 650Ginge.

rocky

blancha wrote: »

I personally know the owners of Priuses converted to LPG.
1.5 engines when drive economically takes average 7.5l of LPG per 100km which is 31.36 MPG.
1.8 engine with same driving 9-9.5l of LPG per 100km which is 26.14 - 24.76
Priuses that use hho together with LPG has better result.
that's not my imagination

This is not 'murica either so use Imperial gallons

7.5l/100 = 37.6641 mpg

MichaelR

As this thread seems alive... I am considering an LPG conversion for my '07 Kia Cee'd (1.4 petrol). I really don't want to go over a thousand Euro as I expect to save about hat amount in a year on LPG, given my mileage; also the car is 7 years old, I hope it will last another 5 but I don't expect much more. So I have some questions:

- Is Romano (APService) or Stag (LPGain, Auto Gas Ireland in Cork) better? I don't think I can afford the Prins option from LPGain/AutoGas as they quote 1300 for my car. As I am in Limerick and drive to Cork regularly, Stag/AutoGas would be more convenient but a Cork friend says taxi drivers badmoutherd the 1k option, which has to be Stag. (There is another garage in Cork but it also does Stag). I am currently tending towards APService/Romano, and saw some good reviews online, but would prefer to get more opinions. Also, did anyone here do it with APService? (APService is in Palmerstown)

- Someone mentioned LPG is less efficient in "short trips" as it takes some time before LPG replaces petrol. How short it short? I regularly travel 15-20 km to the city., then after some time the same distance from the city. Much of the distance is motorway, there is some city driving but not much (I try to avoid the centre if I can help it). Often 2 times a day, sometimes 3, so the mileage adds up a lot - leading to the LPG conversion idea. But longer (50+ km) drives are not an everyday occurrence. Would LPG work for me?

- The options do not include "valve saver". Would running on petrol a day per week, perhaps with flashlube added to the tank, go some way towards extending valve life? Or is this not needed?

goldenwonder

i was told that romano arent the cheapest but last a few thousand miles where as the hana injectors last alot longer and need less maintenance.
im going with hana.
and afaik once the engine is warm it runs on lpg.
dunno about that valve problem. i heard it needs more lubrication so they dont burn out.
must look into that more, ive had bad valves before and the hassle of that

stimpson

MichaelR wrote: »

As this thread seems alive... I am considering an LPG conversion for my '07 Kia Cee'd (1.4 petrol). I really don't want to go over a thousand Euro as I expect to save about hat amount in a year on LPG, given my mileage; also the car is 7 years old, I hope it will last another 5 but I don't expect much more. So I have some questions:

- Is Romano (APService) or Stag (LPGain, Auto Gas Ireland in Cork) better? I don't think I can afford the Prins option from LPGain/AutoGas as they quote 1300 for my car. As I am in Limerick and drive to Cork regularly, Stag/AutoGas would be more convenient but a Cork friend says taxi drivers badmoutherd the 1k option, which has to be Stag. (There is another garage in Cork but it also does Stag). I am currently tending towards APService/Romano, and saw some good reviews online, but would prefer to get more opinions. Also, did anyone here do it with APService? (APService is in Palmerstown)

- Someone mentioned LPG is less efficient in "short trips" as it takes some time before LPG replaces petrol. How short it short? I regularly travel 15-20 km to the city., then after some time the same distance from the city. Much of the distance is motorway, there is some city driving but not much (I try to avoid the centre if I can help it). Often 2 times a day, sometimes 3, so the mileage adds up a lot - leading to the LPG conversion idea. But longer (50+ km) drives are not an everyday occurrence. Would LPG work for me?

- The options do not include "valve saver". Would running on petrol a day per week, perhaps with flashlube added to the tank, go some way towards extending valve life? Or is this not needed?

What annual mileage are you doing? That is the most important thing to consider when calculating payback time.

I have the Stag with Hana injectors. I couldn't see the benefit in paying the extra for the Prinz/Keihin setup.

I'm not sure about the short trips comment. Mine switches to LPG in half a mile or less. I wouldn't consider 15-20km as short.

Flashlube seems to be a good option if you're worried about your valves. I didn't bother. I figure I can pick up a secondhand head if I have problems with valves, and I've read reports of the S60 doing 150k miles on LPG without issue.