LPG for me?

jca

Stella Virgo wrote: »

getting on a bit now.....;) arent we...:D

Me? or the cars??:D

derry

I am considering buying my UK living cousins 1996 loW milage 150,000 miles ~2.8 automatic 6 banger petrol Merc with UK reg when he come to Ireland in few weeks . I was thinking to convert it to gas .My mileage per year presently is low ~10,000 kilometers ~6000 miles but that could change easily to more and also I would try to keep the car for at least five years preferably ten . The advantage with the petrol cars I can fix most everything myself on the older petrol cars where my 1993 diesel is now heading to expensive overhaul

Its not illegal to convert a UK car to gas myself but not sure is there any worthwhile saving in doing that . Open to suggestions having rebuilt a few cars and few boats and caravans and gas home heating system all with gas cookers and stuff cant see major problems to do the DIY route if it will save me at least ~50% on installation costs .
If the saving are minimal probably let the Irish installers do it
If i did convert the car myself then imported it to Ireland where can I get independent engineers report and what would that cost .

My cousin figures that Merc does 24MPG on the high way and 16 around the town using UK petrol probably less with Irish petrol

My insurer says they only require the report from the installer .

I only do third party I have no fire and theft with the policy to keep insurance cheap as possible presently 280pm on 1993 non turbo 2 liter diesel car . I will look to see what is the price for the 2.8 Merc

Also have to look the import costs of the Merc

many factors to look at

When I looked to convert my 1993 2l diesel to LPG it turned out that the LPG is 50/50 mix when car is going steady speed on the highway.So when the car is low RPM in traffic it is zero LPG and all diesel. The LPG only kicks in with ~20% lpg after ~2000 rpm and as the engine goes to 4000 RPM it gives the 50/50 mix .This means my car would hardly ever go above 2500 rpm so not worthwhile for me. Also nobody in Ireland does the diesel conversion in this time

Derry

unkel

derry wrote: »

Also have to look the import costs of the Merc

The import costs is the VRT which is €720 for that car

Unless he is giving you the car practically for free, it would be cheaper to buy a car over here. See the bangernomics thread, or the luxobarge thread

championc

Hi all

I have an '04 BMW 318Ci 2.0 N42 Engine car, with 90k MLS on the clock. I have no intentions of changing the car.

I now use it for work use and will be driving about 20k KMs/year. There'll be plenty of driving up and down the motorways around the country.

1. Am I correct in saying that, for me, it looks like a no-brainer ?

2. Are the number of fuel outlets rising or falling ?

3. Does the conversion involve new Injectors ? I was recently thinking of getting my current injectors cleaned but new ones on a new system would remove this need.

4. If new injectors are fitted, do they affect the MPG much when running on Petrol only as compared to the original injectors ?

5. Any opinions as to the best system to look at buying ?

stimpson

1. Sounds like a no brainier to me. the extra weight in the boot is bound to be good for traction in RWD car. I originally looked for a 525i to convert for that reason.

2. I think the number of outlets in Dublin is rising. If you're on the road a lot I'd fit a large tank behind the back seats as gas is more expensive down the country. The cheapest gas seems to be the discounted gas from the installers. I get a 6c discount from LPGain as I got the system fitted there. There is a full list here: http://www.mylpg.eu/stations/ireland/list

3/4. The gas injectors are for LPG only. Petrol is just used to start the car and warm up the coolant. Once your engine is warm enough it will change yo gas and run exclusively on that.

I've done about 20k km over the past year and a half on gas and it's never missed a beat. It paid for itself after a year.


Edit: should have mentioned they it really only makes sense if you pass a gas station regularly.

spakks

championc wrote: »

Hi all

I have an '04 BMW 318Ci 2.0 N42 Engine car, with 90k MLS on the clock. I have no intentions of changing the car.

I now use it for work use and will be driving about 20k KMs/year. There'll be plenty of driving up and down the motorways around the country.

1. Am I correct in saying that, for me, it looks like a no-brainer ?

2. Are the number of fuel outlets rising or falling ?

3. Does the conversion involve new Injectors ? I was recently thinking of getting my current injectors cleaned but new ones on a new system would remove this need.

4. If new injectors are fitted, do they affect the MPG much when running on Petrol only as compared to the original injectors ?

5. Any opinions as to the best system to look at buying ?

You can realistically expect savings of 40% +

Yuo don't say where your commuting from but you can find most of the stations on mlp.eu or ask on here and someone will tell you your nearest station

New gas injectors are installed so no need to worry about petrol injectors

Gas can use up to 20% more per gallon than petrol but currently costs around 69 to 74 c per litre and this is how you make the savings

As for systems
Top of the range. Landi Renzo, prins

Middle of the road. Stag, Ag centrum, brc lovato

But all these kits have different levels of equipment and injectors. Be prepared to pay around €1000 for a good mid range kit

goldenwonder

About a year on/15k miles, my system still works well.
Its a stag system that cost €800. It took about 9k miles to pay back with savings.
On petrol my Camry has a city/motorway consumption of 27mpg. On LPG its equivalent to 46mpg.
Motorway driving for example I recorded an equivalent of 52mpg.
Possibly the more expensive the better but i m happy and it doesn't have problems.
Only thing is, a bigger tank might help if you plan on driving around the country a lot. Prices outside Dublin are crazy high. I've seen 99c/l.

championc

Many thanks for all input. Much to consider. I'm in Sth Dublin I'd fill in Tallaght area. Just need a tank which would maybe get to Cork and back although there are enough stops along the way to do a splash and dash to get back to Dublin.

martin gillespie

I will be getting it done on my next car , 5th gear dud a explosion test the petrol was a right of the gas hardly made an inpact.

goldenwonder

I get about 250 miles with a 70 litre tank. But it only fills to 55l/80℅ for safety of expansion.
That would increase to over 300 with all motorway.
A bigger tank might be worth detouring to a station if its regular.
Couple times I detoured of the n4 and I added 30 mins

stimpson

I did a run to Limerick last year -250 miles round trip and it used just under 45l. I have a 58l tank that sits in the spare wheel well that takes 47 litres of gas (allowing for expansion). Woukd be plenty if you can fill in Cork. But at the end of the day, if you run out of gas it just automatically changes back to petrol. No big deal if you're a few miles short of home.

goldenwonder

stimpson wrote: »

I get a 6c discount from LPGain as I got the system fitted there.

you get 6c discount?
I only get 3c. how did you manage that?

stimpson

Sorry - 6%, not 6c.

spakks

championc wrote: »

Many thanks for all input. Much to consider. I'm in Sth Dublin I'd fill in Tallaght area. Just need a tank which would maybe get to Cork and back although there are enough stops along the way to do a splash and dash to get back to Dublin.

There is gas in cork and at junction 10 mondello on the motorway

weadick

I'm currently trying to get a 1993 car insured on LPG, talk about a pain in the backside. I half wish I never told them about the bloody conversion.

I'm holding out on axa, although they won't quote me until I send them in a copy of the nct and an engineers report, but is there any other insurance company that isn't so persnickety about older cars and LPG?

spakks

weadick wrote: »

I'm currently trying to get a 1993 car insured on LPG, talk about a pain in the backside. I half wish I never told them about the bloody conversion.

I'm holding out on axa, although they won't quote me until I send them in a copy of the nct and an engineers report, but is there any other insurance company that isn't so persnickety about older cars and LPG?

You should be able to get a letter from the installer to satisfy them or I can send you a number of an enginer that can help

weadick

spakks wrote: »

You should be able to get a letter from the installer to satisfy them or I can send you a number of an enginer that can help

I know the guy that installed it so I should be able to get a letter from him, I'm just afraid that the premium will be something extortionate because of the LPG conversion. I was quoted about 500 online for covering the car as petrol only...anything more than that and it wouldn't really be worth it I feel.

goochy

is it the law to have an lpg sticker on rear of car ?

saw a guy in black zv reg porsche 944 with lpg sticker - no wonder he had a grin on face - no nct , cheap fuel tax and insurance !

spakks

weadick wrote: »

I know the guy that installed it so I should be able to get a letter from him, I'm just afraid that the premium will be something extortionate because of the LPG conversion. I was quoted about 500 online for covering the car as petrol only...anything more than that and it wouldn't really be worth it I feel.

You should have no increase in insurance as LPG doesn't improve performance . In my experience when you have the correct documents there is no problem

stimpson

weadick wrote: »

I know the guy that installed it so I should be able to get a letter from him, I'm just afraid that the premium will be something extortionate because of the LPG conversion. I was quoted about 500 online for covering the car as petrol only...anything more than that and it wouldn't really be worth it I feel.

Was it professionally installed or a DIY job? My conversion came with a laminated cert. That's all the insurance looked for.

weadick

stimpson wrote: »

Was it professionally installed or a DIY job? My conversion came with a laminated cert. That's all the insurance looked for.

Professionally installed. I'm in the process of buying the car so I don't know if the seller has any cert, I will probably have to get that myself.

stimpson

weadick wrote: »

Professionally installed. I'm in the process of buying the car so I don't know if the seller has any cert, I will probably have to get that myself.

I wouldn't buy without it. I'd look for a copy of the very and see if that satisfies the insurance.

Trojan

Looking for some advice on if it's worth my while converting. Here's the details: my E39 525iA does 31.4MPG actual (9.0L/100km). I do ~1400 miles per month i.e. 16500 annual (2200km & 26400km respectively).

I've been quoted the following:

PRINS system €1650, requires €70 service every 50,000km (€35/year)
STAG system €1200, requires €40 service every 10,000km (€100/year + inconvenience)

The calculators spit out the following:

Current annual Petrol Cost: €3445.20 (assuming stays at 1.45/L)
Projected annual LPG Cost: €2138.40 (I set it to 0.75/L, see below)
Return of investment: €15.63 months

I know that if I converted I'd be a bit heavier on the go pedal, so that break-even point might come down closer to 12 months. I don't intend on changing cars anytime soon but it is a 13 year old car. I'd be happy to go for something similar (maybe an E38) that the system could be carried over to.

Risks: I'm tying up over a grand in the car which doesn't seem to add to resale value, and I live in Mayo and outside Dublin the LPG costs closer to €1 than €0.65. My main routes are Castlebar-Dublin and Castlebar-Galway-Dublin and there are a few stations on there.

So at the moment for me it's a 50-50 decision, and in that instance the option that doesn't involve spending €1650 seems like the right one. Any thoughts?

stimpson

Trojan wrote: »

Looking for some advice on if it's worth my while converting. Here's the details: my E39 525iA does 31.4MPG actual (9.0L/100km). I do ~1400 miles per month i.e. 16500 annual (2200km & 26400km respectively).

I've been quoted the following:

PRINS system €1650, requires €70 service every 50,000km (€35/year)
STAG system €1200, requires €40 service every 10,000km (€100/year + inconvenience)

The calculators spit out the following:

Current annual Petrol Cost: €3445.20 (assuming stays at 1.45/L)
Projected annual LPG Cost: €2138.40 (I set it to 0.75/L, see below)
Return of investment: €15.63 months

I know that if I converted I'd be a bit heavier on the go pedal, so that break-even point might come down closer to 12 months. I don't intend on changing cars anytime soon but it is a 13 year old car. I'd be happy to go for something similar (maybe an E38) that the system could be carried over to.

Risks: I'm tying up over a grand in the car which doesn't seem to add to resale value, and I live in Mayo and outside Dublin the LPG costs closer to €1 than €0.65. My main routes are Castlebar-Dublin and Castlebar-Galway-Dublin and there are a few stations on there.

So at the moment for me it's a 50-50 decision, and in that instance the option that doesn't involve spending €1650 seems like the right one. Any thoughts?

Unless you pass a station on a regular basis, I'm not sure it makes sense as you'll have to go out of your way to fill up. Doubly so if you're paying €1 per litre. You loose ~10% efficiency, so you're looking at 1.10 a litre really. So savings are down to 30 - 40c per litre. That's a lot of miles for payback.

My local LPG station is less than 1/2 mile away and closer than my nearest petrol station and it's 69c per litre.

74merc

What size of and type of tank are they going to install for that price?
That will determine your range and it can get a bit tedious stopping for fuel. Sods law will dictate that you will need to fill up where it is expensive, unless you live in Dublin and can refuel before you set off.
I have an estate car so was limited to a donut tank in the spare wheel well. It is a 68 litre tank but is effectively only 55 litres. Max range for me is 280 miles. Also the price of LPG has not dropped in line with the price of petrol. Right now, I would not convert again as the numbers don't add up for the cost of the conversion and the hassle of filling up.
I never checked your calculation for the cost of LPG, did you factor in the fact that you will only get 85% of the mileage on LPG compared to petrol?
So, if you were getting a big 110+ litre tank and were filling up in Dublin, I would say go for it, otherwise don't bother. With that in mind, the handling of your car will be affected with the weight of a full tank in your boot.