Football Championship 2014

iDave

davidfitz22 wrote: »

Donegal will shellshock Dublin and go through if they meet.

Moneymaker wrote: »

Donegal won't beat Dublin.

I'd fancy Mayo or Kerry ahead of Donegal.

I don't fancy any of them. Not this year anyway.

yop

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Fact. Talked to several Galway supporters who have stated that, in comparison to Mayo, Galway teams are always well able for Croker, despite the fact that their team hasn't won a championship game in Croker since 01.

Galways supporters.... enough said
Hope they weren't on about their hurlers though

MaroonAndGreen

Obviously im biased, but I'd love to see another Mayo v Donegal final.

In recent years that was the final that created the most excitement IMO especially for the 2 counties involved

corny

davidfitz22 wrote: »

It will be ugly and gritty, but i think they have enough to get the best of dublin by frustrating them and holding on to the ball and rack up a few free's.

Like in 2011? Oh wait....;)

Moneymaker

iDave wrote: »

I don't fancy any of them. Not this year anyway.

Kerry have forwards as good as(maybe superior even?) to Dublins.

They are one of the few teams that could match us in a straight up shoot out.

O'Donohue is playing out of his skin and is close to unmarkable on current form imo. Remember the game was even in the 69th minute last year.

We haven't seen the best of Mayo yet, they have the power and speed to match Dublin and if they can get enough scores they are capable of beating us. Moving A'OS to 11 seems like a good move too.

MaroonAndGreen

Moneymaker wrote: »

Kerry have forwards as good as(maybe superior even?) to Dublins.

They are one of the few teams that could match us in a straight up shoot out.

O'Donohue is playing out of his skin and is close to unmarkable on current form imo. Remember the game was even in the 69th minute last year.

We haven't seen the best of Mayo yet, they have the power and speed to match Dublin and if they can get enough scores they are capable of beating us. Moving A'OS to 11 seems like a good move too.

There is talk that Mayo have changed their training this season to try and peak for the semi final and final.. the kind of intense training that Mayo were doing last year coming up to the Mayo v Galway game in May has only been started in the last few weeks apparently, of course its a risky game to play and could lead to Cork beating us but hindsight definitely shows that Mayo peaked for their games against Galway, Roscommon and Donegal last season and then performances slightly tailed off against Tyrone and Dublin.

If Mayo could manage to hit their peak in the next 3-4 weeks then we are as good as Dublin IMO and it would be a 50:50 game.

Scoring isnt as much of a problem for Mayo at all, when we were at our peak last season our scoring was every bit as good as Dublin's is this year people seem to forget. (4-16 v Galway, 0-21 v Roscommon, 5-11 v London, 4-17 v Donegal)

Moneymaker

There is a case though that against the very top teams the Mayo forwards are lacking. O'Connor excepted. Alan Dillion has under performed time and time again, and are McLoughlin and Doherty good enough?

I do think Alan Freeman got a raw deal in the AI final last year, the ball never went in to him and he got pulled ashore.

Nidgeweasel

Moneymaker wrote: »

There is a case though that against the very top teams the Mayo forwards are lacking. O'Connor excepted. Alan Dillion has under performed time and time again, and are McLoughlin and Doherty good enough?

I do think Alan Freeman got a raw deal in the AI final last year, the ball never went in to him and he got pulled ashore.

Dillon is a bottle job. It's not often I'll resort to calling a player that but he is the definition of one.

MaroonAndGreen

Moneymaker wrote: »

There is a case though that against the very top teams the Mayo forwards are lacking. O'Connor excepted. Alan Dillion has under performed time and time again, and are McLoughlin and Doherty good enough?

I do think Alan Freeman got a raw deal in the AI final last year, the ball never went in to him and he got pulled ashore.

O'Connor, McLoughin are certaintly good enough and are key players for Mayo. And Andy Moran on his game is good enough but since his cruciate injury he hasnt been as effective IMO. Aidan O'Shea at 11 is giving us another good forward as hes well capable of playing that role. As regards Doherty, ive never been convinced by him myself although there is no doubt hes got a great goalscoring record and is always a goal threat.

Freeman did get a raw deal in last years final and it was a point of debate for months after in Mayo. Hes had a year a little hampered by injury but if we can get him back in then there is no doubt hes a good enough forward.

Half the reason for people talking about Mayo not having good forwards is the fact that most people saying that wouldnt know Alan Freeman or Kevin McLoughlin if they were sat beside them in the same room.

Moneymaker

Time will tell anyway, potentially Mayo are a better team then last year imo. Most of the changes to the side are good ones.

Players like Higgins, Keegan, O'Connor and a few more certainly deserve an AI medal anyway.

I'm pretty sure Mayo haven't scored a point from play in the second half of their last 3 or 4 All Ireland finals. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, the Mayo forwards have never been game winners on the big stage. They have excellent forwards but there's something just not right with them given how they persistently leave games behind them in September.

Padkir

Moneymaker wrote: »

There is a case though that against the very top teams the Mayo forwards are lacking. O'Connor excepted. Alan Dillion has under performed time and time again, and are McLoughlin and Doherty good enough?

I do think Alan Freeman got a raw deal in the AI final last year, the ball never went in to him and he got pulled ashore.

Kevin McLoughlin was not far off Mayo's best player in 2012 and despite tailing off a bit last year, he's beginning to shine again this year.

Lucky to have someone like him, he's a class act.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Mayo haven't scored a point from play in the second half of their last 3 or 4 All Ireland finals. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, the Mayo forwards have never been game winners on the big stage. They have excellent forwards but there's something just not right with them given how they persistently leave games behind them in September.

Just on this:

Last All Ireland final, 2nd half, Dublin scored 1-5 from play while Mayo scored 1-0. Not a single Mayo forward scored a point from play in the 2nd half. Never gonna win an All Ireland playing like that

DDC1990

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on this:

Last All Ireland final, 2nd half, Dublin scored 1-5 from play while Mayo scored 1-0. Not a single Mayo forward scored a point from play in the 2nd half. Never gonna win an All Ireland playing like that

Since when has point from play been the be all and end all of All Ireland hopes?

A point is worth a point no matter how its gained.

If a team fouls you 20 times in the scoring zone and you score 20 points from frees its better then no fouls and 19 points from play, regardless of how it looks to spectators.

Points from play are often out of your control due to opposition tactics. We all know how Dublin played the last few minutes of that game, and how teams often play with a lead. Give up points from frees to prevent goals.

A much better barometer would be to look at chances spurned, balls dropped short, wides and turnovers.

Nidgeweasel

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Mayo haven't scored a point from play in the second half of their last 3 or 4 All Ireland finals. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, the Mayo forwards have never been game winners on the big stage. They have excellent forwards but there's something just not right with them given how they persistently leave games behind them in September.

Lee keegan dropped a lovely point over in 2012.

DoctaDee

DDC1990 wrote: »

Since when has point from play been the be all and end all of All Ireland hopes?

A point is worth a point no matter how its gained.

If a team fouls you 20 times in the scoring zone and you score 20 points from frees its better then no fouls and 19 points from play, regardless of how it looks to spectators.

Points from play are often out of your control due to opposition tactics. We all know how Dublin played the last few minutes of that game, and how teams often play with a lead. Give up points from frees to prevent goals.

A much better barometer would be to look at chances spurned, balls dropped short, wides and turnovers.

We might also remember they played the last 10 mins with 13 fit players, Rory O'Carroll had to wait til Tuesday til he knew which day of the week it was, O'Gara was crocked with a hamstring .. desperate measures were required within that context

harpsman

DDC1990 wrote: »

Since when has point from play been the be all and end all of All Ireland hopes?

A point is worth a point no matter how its gained.

If a team fouls you 20 times in the scoring zone and you score 20 points from frees its better then no fouls and 19 points from play, regardless of how it looks to spectators.

Points from play are often out of your control due to opposition tactics. We all know how Dublin played the last few minutes of that game, and how teams often play with a lead. Give up points from frees to prevent goals.

A much better barometer would be to look at chances spurned, balls dropped short, wides and turnovers.

That is true, and another thing you hear alot on tv is "the starting forwards only scored 2 points from play in the first half" like if the midfielders and defenders score 1-6 that doesnt count. Having said that youre not going to get enough frees to win a game, you do need to be able to score from play-if the 2nd half of last years all ireland had gone on til midnight Mayo didnt look like they would get points from play. Still not convinced bout O Connor, and the other Mayo forwards in the white heat, but time will tell.

DDC1990

DoctaDee wrote: »

We might also remember they played the last 10 mins with 13 fit players, Rory O'Carroll had to wait til Tuesday til he knew which day of the week it was, O'Gara was crocked with a hamstring .. desperate measures were required within that context

Totally agree, and I'm not for one second criticizing them in this context. They are All Ireland champions because of it. (That and the 12 months of hard work etc. etc. etc. :P )

I'm just saying its highly likely that Mayo would have got more from play if Dublin hadn't fouled in certain situations.

I'm only using the Dublin example because that was the Match being used to highlight the fact that Mayo didn't score from play.

Moneymaker

Funny, I seem to remember Mayo getting up to all kinds of nonsense in the 2012 semi when they were hanging on towards the end.

Swings and roundabouts.

GBXI

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Mayo haven't scored a point from play in the second half of their last 3 or 4 All Ireland finals. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, the Mayo forwards have never been game winners on the big stage. They have excellent forwards but there's something just not right with them given how they persistently leave games behind them in September.

Completely inaccurate statement.

Squatman

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

O'Connor, McLoughin are certaintly good enough and are key players for Mayo. And Andy Moran on his game is good enough but since his cruciate injury he hasnt been as effective IMO. Aidan O'Shea at 11 is giving us another good forward as hes well capable of playing that role. As regards Doherty, ive never been convinced by him myself although there is no doubt hes got a great goalscoring record and is always a goal threat.

Freeman did get a raw deal in last years final and it was a point of debate for months after in Mayo. Hes had a year a little hampered by injury but if we can get him back in then there is no doubt hes a good enough forward.

Half the reason for people talking about Mayo not having good forwards is the fact that most people saying that wouldnt know Alan Freeman or Kevin McLoughlin if they were sat beside them in the same room.

I pretty sure Freeman was battling some sort of flu/****s in the lead up to last years final, and probably shouldnt have even started. Gifted player, and probably should have stayed on for a few mins, but i think its admiral that Horan has enough respect for his players to throw in the towel and prevent injuries.

The simple fact is, a team is made of a number of player. Mayo used to put all the ball thru Ciaran Mcdonald, and if he had an off day, the whole team suffered. Now Horan is working on a team of players capable of working together, where no one man is dominant. there is no "1" in team... (the is a "me" but thats besides the point.

nice_guy80

Squatman wrote: »

I pretty sure Freeman was battling some sort of flu/****s in the lead up to last years final, and probably shouldnt have even started. Gifted player, and probably should have stayed on for a few mins, but i think its admiral that Horan has enough respect for his players to throw in the towel and prevent injuries.

The simple fact is, a team is made of a number of player. Mayo used to put all the ball thru Ciaran Mcdonald, and if he had an off day, the whole team suffered. Now Horan is working on a team of players capable of working together, where no one man is dominant. there is no "1" in team... (the is a "me" but thats besides the point.

true.
but I don't think they have enough big game winners to win the AI.
good team, not a great team.

intellectual dosser

Mayo are after winning their 4th Connacht title in a row, they've reached the last two All Ireland finals, both years knocking out the then AI champions along the way. I think they're a great team. The question that needs to be answered this season is whether they are still on the ascendency or if they have already peaked and are now regressing.

Fr Tod Umptious

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Mayo are after winning their 4th Connacht title in a row, they've reached the last two All Ireland finals, both years knocking out the then AI champions along the way. I think they're a great team. The question that needs to be answered this season is whether they are still on the ascendency or if they have already peaked and are now regressing.

I think the weakness of that side of the draw makes that question very hard to answer.

Regressing or not none of Cork, Sligo or Tipp should not be a huge obstacle for Mayo.
It’s harder to figure how they would do v Kerry. The narrative around Kerry has changed a lot since their win v Cork, they have gone from being an inexperienced rebuilding team to AI contenders based on that one result.
I’m personally believe that Mayo would beat Kerry in a possible SF.

So that puts Mayo in an AI final, and it’s hard to know if they are any better or any worse than 2013 when they get there.

If they do not win in 2014 then I fully expect them to be also rans in 2015.

keane2097

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Mayo are after winning their 4th Connacht title in a row, they've reached the last two All Ireland finals, both years knocking out the then AI champions along the way. I think they're a great team. The question that needs to be answered this season is whether they are still on the ascendency or if they have already peaked and are now regressing.

Agree with this, last season's incarnation would have been good enough to win an All Ireland the vast majority of the time.

MaroonAndGreen

In fairness it probably is the last hurrah for this current Mayo team this year in terms of winning the All-Ireland.. 3 years getting close and not doing it would surely be too much for amateur lads like this?

Nidgeweasel

Mayo should stroll into the final this year.

Will they win it or not? Even a stopped clock is right occasionally. Probabilities suggest if they keep getting there, they'll win it.

MaroonAndGreen

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Mayo should stroll into the final this year.

Will they win it or not? Even a stopped clock is right occasionally. Probabilities suggest if they keep getting their, they'll win it.

Well they wont be strolling anywhere, nobody will, not even Dublin!

Cork have the potential to be brilliant, im not going to rule them out because of one poor game, we need to remember they had a good season up til then.

Nidgeweasel

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Well they wont be strolling anywhere, nobody will, not even Dublin!

Cork have the potential to be brilliant, im not going to rule them out because of one poor game, we need to remember they had a good season up til then.

Dublin won't because they'll more than likely come up against Donegal and Monaghan which will be a battle.

Mayo will have a winnable quarter final and then a semi against Kerry who are grossly overrated.

I expect Mayo to wipe the floor with Kerry should they meet.

Padkir

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Dublin won't because they'll more than likely come up against Donegal and Monaghan which will be a battle.

Mayo will have a winnable quarter final and then a semi against Kerry who are grossly overrated.

I expect Mayo to wipe the floor with Kerry should they meet.

While I think that Mayo would win if they were to meet Kerry in a semi, it would be a very nervous trip to HQ for the Mayo fans, given the history...

The place might just explode if we hammered Kerry in Croke Park; can't see it happening though.