Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

Slutmonkey57b

I think what recent f1 loses compared to years gone by is possibilities. I had a good 10 year gap from 96 to 09 when I missed the rise of the manufacturer teams and what strikes me now is the set patterns of the season.

In the past there was actually a much bigger performance gap between the front and back of the grid, but in those days, designs were simpler and easier to improve. More things were open to changes so on a limited budget teams could design towards their strengths. Most importantly, reliability was much worse, so the middle of the pack was more variable.

The good drivers were significantly better than the bad ones, and the cars exposed those differences more.

Nowadays, big teams have staff, facilities, budgets and structures to ensure they don't have many weaknesses or gaps in their knowledge. Where one team does a better job or has a new idea, it's usually a complicated idea which works as part of a larger design, making it difficult to test, validate, or replicate.

There have been a lot of great seasons lately, where the potential winner has mathematically been up in the air, but I have the nagging feeling that it's really a foregone conclusion and we're just waiting on the dice to stop rolling. Nico gave Lewis a run for his money but Lewis realistically was favourite all season. Fernando went down to wire twice but you always felt it was going against the odds orthographic script, and something was going to stop him. Mclaren challenged but they never felt like a regular, consistent threat to red bull.

There's a feeling that the first race sets the tone, then things settle down by race 4 and after that they qualify in 2's and it's a well managed procession to the flag.

That's just me though.

Schwiiing

Bring back refueling. Lose DRS. Bonus points for Fastest Lap and Pole Position. Maybe some sort of weight handicap system. Bring back gravel traps.

Slutmonkey57b

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

Jordan 199

I say it shouldn't be long before the 2015 car launch dates will start to be revealed.

flazio

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

Police style stingers around the boundaries of the track. That'll keep them within track boundaries
And if they do run wide the tyres deflate slowing them down to a safe speed. (disclaimer, not actually serious)

Brendan Flowers

A lot of era coming to an end yesterday...Alonso with Ferrari, Vettel with Red Bull, Button possibly leaving F1. But there seemed to be very little attention given to the end of the McLaren Mercedes partnership. If Im correct it was the longest partnership between a team and an engine supplier in the history of the sport. They enjoyed huge success together but overall I think both parties would have been disappointed to have only secured 3 drivers title and 2 constructors titles during that time.

Some great memories of McLaren Mercedes....especially that monster of an engine they had in the last 90's! Sorry to see the end of this partnership but at the same time looking forward to the McLaren Honda era!

Scotty #

bbability wrote: »

Listening to Ron Denis on BBC at FP3 it's the Frenchman wanting to dump Button.

Take from this what you will (the last 20 seconds). Gotta love Ted Kravitz!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pbhia1jxrk

Sky showed Button and Denis sitting at a table having quite an animated discussion after the race. Button said later they always chat before and after races but this looked more serious, lots of hand movements from both. I'd like to see JB get a chance with the Honda.

All will be revealed on 1st December.

recyclebin

OSI wrote: »

"What was said when Lewis Hamilton quit McLaren to join Mercedes"

This makes for great reading given this years success.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9538348/what-was-said-when-lewis-hamilton-quit-mclaren-to-join-mercedes

Alonso comments are very interesting too:

"I understand the move. Always you need some new challenges when you get tired from one situation. I think McLaren sometimes is not the easiest place to live, so I think he will be much more happy now in Mercedes than what he was in the past"

Andrew76

Not sure if this has already been posted but Mattiacci has been replaced: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30179916

Maurizio Arrivabene is his replacement, not heard of him myself.

Going Strong

Mattiacci was always a short term placement. He needed to see how the sporting division of Ferrari worked. After all, he spent years selling the road cars based on the brand power of the racing heritage.

greedygoblin

Andrew76 wrote: »

Not sure if this has already been posted but Mattiacci has been replaced: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/30179916

Maurizio Arrivabene is his replacement, not heard of him myself.

He is head honcho at Marlboro/Phillip Morris isn't he? Apparently he is closely involved behind the scenes with the team for years. Also, his wife has a senior position within the team according to Eddie Jordan.

Going Strong

His wife is Kimi's PR person.

I hadn't realised that Mattiacci has left Ferrari. They're really in all sorts of trouble aren't they?

clear thinking

I'm not a regular poster here but my thoughts on the season and F1 in general are pretty mixed.

1. Let's all hope Bianchi makes a full recovery. To be honest I think human error was the cause of his crash, with a truck on the track, no safety car and possibly JB pushing too hard under yellow. So there should be no rush to enclosed cockpits.

2. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 1. -The nose has to go. I'm a firm believer in 'if it looks good, it is good'. Ferrari tried to say a winning car looks good at the start of the year. Memo to Ferrari, build a **** looking winning car and get back to us. They tried the same stroke in 1996.

3. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 2. DRS has to go. There is enough flex with the 100kg fuel limit to allow drivers use slipstream and a richer mix to get a few extra kph. Sure If any pleb had drs they could overtake another F1 car.

4. Boring as f**k drivers Sky had a James hunt documentary on there recently. Of the current crop I'd only classify Alonso and Button as having any personality. Even the Lewis v Nico thing was crap as lewis is still bizzarely childish for a grown adult and nico appeared to lose his nerve after spa. Frankly I wanted Nico to win because of LH's annoying-ness but either way I have no great like for either of them and their conveyancing of being spoiled. Any of a dozen drivers in that car would have been champion.

5. Bernies over 70 thing F1 should be a very popular sport, used to attract young people to engineering, science and technology. It should not be just about selling white-labelled swiss watches to old people living vicariously (nothing wrong with that btw). It's amazing that F1 cars are not plastered with Google, Facebook, Microsoft as title sponsors, that car companies focus more on advertising 'experience' rather than their tech to hook those interested. We need a next generation of engineers and scientists, it is ridiculous that Newey can draw on paper and still win 4 world championships. Surely there are good engineers and nerds out there in aerospace and motor racing that can nail F1?

6. Races There are too many races. Cut it back to 16. I lose interest for **** races like russia and bahrain. Yes I'm a traditionalist, Spa, Suzuka, Monza, Montreal...

7. testing The lack of testing is madness. No one even got close to mercedes and part of that has to be because of testing being restricted. Bring back more tests, allow more engines to be used and allow more development to go on. Teams have to be given the chance to close the gap in season. It can still be restricted to prevent the doubling up of personnel that used to go on.

8. rule stability It would be nice to see the tech specs stand for 10 years, apart from the superfical aero stuff I mentioned. That would close the gap between all the teams. It would also bring costs down over time, for example, privateers could use last years engines to save on that expense.

Cant think of anymore for the moment, rant over.

Schwiiing

^ Very hard to read that wall of text. Put each point as a paragraph.

I'd like to add that I hate the newer tracks eg Abu Dhabi. Vast expanses of flat concrete and tarmac. No punishment for making a balls of a corner, just acres of run off space and you're back in business.

I'd like to make the races shorter by about 20-30 mins.

Get rid of DRS.

Bonus points sytem for Fastest Laps, Pole Positions.

PopePalpatine

I don't mind a ~20-race calendar, I do mind that some of those races are on crap circuits with little interest in motorsport. At least China and Malaysia are trying a bit, but even then, Shanghai is a bland track. Don't get me started on Yas Marina and Sakhir, at least the other Tilkedromes are in areas where wet races are possible!

Gillespy

DRS isn't always an easy pass. Hamilton had it in Brazil for the last stint and couldn't pass. Rosberg had it in Bahrain but hard defensive driving kept him out. It was introduced for good reasons and has been refined since to the point where I don't see the big deal anymore. Getting DRS by passing backmarkers should be looked at though.

ScumLord

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Definitely bring back gravel traps, or a suitable modern equivalent. Enforce the track limits, and make sure driver mistakes are punished.

I would have thought that they could come up with some sort of surface that will tear up the tyres, either make them rough for a few laps or take a few laps worth of performance from the tyres bringin in the possibility of an unnecessary pit stop. It would be a severe punishment for the drivers without ending their race.

clear thinking wrote: »

2. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 1. -The nose has to go. I'm a firm believer in 'if it looks good, it is good'. Ferrari tried to say a winning car looks good at the start of the year. Memo to Ferrari, build a **** looking winning car and get back to us. They tried the same stroke in 1996.

That's just not true, aerodynamics are dictated by science and nature not peoples perceptions. I like the fact cars are evolving in a wind tunnel, it's a more natural process thats more effective that some guy deciding the car should look a certain way just because he likes the look of it.

3. ridiculous aerodynamic features no. 2. DRS has to go. There is enough flex with the 100kg fuel limit to allow drivers use slipstream and a richer mix to get a few extra kph. Sure If any pleb had drs they could overtake another F1 car.

I think the DRS is needed, F1 cars are too sensitive to aero and are at a disadvantage following a slower car. They need something to level the playing field so they can overtake.

4. Boring as f**k drivers Sky had a James hunt documentary on there recently. Of the current crop I'd only classify Alonso and Button as having any personality.

That's out of the hands of everybody. As long as they're effectively spokesmodel for their sponsors they have to be on their best behaviour or end up losing sponsors and as a result their seat. It;s the same in every sport, everybody's afraid to speak their mind lest they end up on the wrong end of the mob or sponsors.

6. Races There are too many races. Cut it back to 16. I lose interest for **** races like russia and bahrain. Yes I'm a traditionalist, Spa, Suzuka, Monza, Montreal...

couldn't disagree more. The more races the better.

7. testing The lack of testing is madness. No one even got close to mercedes and part of that has to be because of testing being restricted. Bring back more tests, allow more engines to be used and allow more development to go on. Teams have to be given the chance to close the gap in season. It can still be restricted to prevent the doubling up of personnel that used to go on.

They all get the same amount of time, so if Mercedes can make it work then the rest should too. You could say restrict the top teams but then the teams competing from 2nd down to tenth will be suffering because the top team did well and won't be able to close the gap.

These are world class engineers and drivers, they could engineer themselves around any problem given enough time. F1 is an engineering sport as much as it's a motorsport, by restricting the time the teams have to work on their cars they have to decide what their going to prioritise, rather than just make everything perfect. It gives smaller teams a chance to excel in some areas that the top team decided maybe to put on the back burner.


I think this has been the best season of F1 in a long, long time. I'd like to see how these rules settle in before assuming they work or don't' work but I think they're on the right track.

v3ttel

My off-season wish list would be (in no particular order):

1. Jenson to be resigned by McLaren
2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)
3. Ross Brawn to Ferrari
4. The Honda engine to have good performance
5. Renault to sort out their engine
6. Get rid of the gentleman's appendage noses (which I think is already confirmed).

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

Tippex

v3ttel wrote: »

My off-season wish list would be (in no particular order):

1. Jenson to be resigned by McLaren
2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)
3. Ross Brawn to Ferrari
4. The Honda engine to have good performance
5. Renault to sort out their engine
6. Get rid of the gentleman's appendage noses (which I think is already confirmed).

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

I think this hits the off season on the head. My thoughts are:
1) I think JB will still be in F1
2) Bernie and bigger team not going to allow this
3) would love him to do this
4) Hopefully
5) again hopefully
6) yep
7) stabilise the regs
8) sort out the stupidness of what happened this weekend with Grosjean's penalty compared to RBR

ScumLord

v3ttel wrote: »

2. Equalise the money distribution to the smaller teams (Lotus, Sauber, Force India, Caterham, Manor)

I don't see that happening and kind of agree with Bernie up to a point. There needs to be a proper incentive to the top teams to continue to sink money into development and the smaller teams have to work within their budgets.

I do think it's important to make the smaller teams competitive but there's only so much that can be done for them, there comes a point when the small teams have to fund themselves and innovate their way up the grid.

To sum up in a nutshell: I hope the field can at least challenge Mercedes and the smaller teams can survive in an environment that is more fair than it is today.

I think there were signs teams were closing the gap to Mercedes. Williams, Ferrari and McLaren were pretty competitive amongst themselves so if they can move forward as a group they should be competitive with mercedes. Renault and Ferrari need to be let do a major overhaul of their engines, if they're restricted they simply won't be competitive with mercedes.

Frank Bullitt

I thought the season had its high points, some good racing, but overall I thought it was quite predictable. Most races you knew that it would be a Merc win in some manner.

Next year I do hope it will be closer, and more of some close battles right to the top of the grid.

Delighted Lewis won it, im surprised that it actually went to the last race considering that he won 11 races in total. I think Rosberg showed some good character and some bad over the year, and to be the only driver properly challenging Hamilton is no mean feat.

I genuinely fear for Ferraris performance for the next few years, there are no signs of any kind of change that would ignite any form of enthusiasm, I mean this more in relation to the back room staff. 3 team principles in a year is a bit shambolic and the politics seem have no solid structure or plan, it may well be a few years yet before we see a Ferrari on the top step, but I actually hope I am wrong.

Here are the names that have been culled (and rumoured to be culled)
Luca di Montezemolo - president: gone
Stefano Domenicali - team principal: gone
Marco Mattiacci - team principal: gone
Luca Marmorini - chef of engine department: gone
Fernando Alonso - leading driver: gone
Andrea Stella - driver engineer: rumored to be gone
Nikolas Tombazis - chief designer: rumored to be gone

Frank Bullitt

From James Allen

Marchionne who made the announcement, making it clear that Mattiacci isn’t just being dropped as team boss, he is out of Ferrari altogether. Something very big has clearly happened in the last week to bring this about with Italian sources scratching their heads as to the cause. Possible suggestions are that Mattiacci had been in discussions with other car manufacturers, but there is nothing firm given as a reason at this point.

T-Bird

Eddie Jordan said on the red button that he could exclusively reveal that Ross Brawn was going to VW Audi and that they were entering F1 in 2017 (it could have been 2016 I forgot). However, it depended on a change to current regulations, or something like that.

youreadthat

Myrddin wrote: »

And yet Button is the only person to ever beat Hamilton as a team mate...

Button has been a good solid driver over the years but one thing that has been consistent is his inability to adapt and outperform the car. The best drivers don't need a perfect set up and the perfect handling to suit their driving style to get at least a par result whereas Button does. The writers and pundits know this too and it's why they tend to talk about how smooth his style is and what a nice chap he is rather than is he a great of F1.

Joeseph Balls

T-Bird wrote: »

Eddie Jordan said on the red button that he could exclusively reveal that Ross Brawn was going to VW Audi and that they were entering F1 in 2017 (it could have been 2016 I forgot). However, it depended on a change to current regulations, or something like that.

He didnt exclusively reveal it. Its a rumour. Now he doesn't pick these things out of nowhere all the same, i agree.
He said 2017.
Tried find a video of the conversation but cant

PukkaStukka

Gintonious wrote: »

I genuinely fear for Ferraris performance for the next few years, there are no signs of any kind of change that would ignite any form of enthusiasm, I mean this more in relation to the back room staff. 3 team principles in a year is a bit shambolic and the politics seem have no solid structure or plan, it may well be a few years yet before we see a Ferrari on the top step, but I actually hope I am wrong.

Here are the names that have been culled (and rumoured to be culled)
Luca di Montezemolo - president: gone
Stefano Domenicali - team principal: gone
Marco Mattiacci - team principal: gone
Luca Marmorini - chef of engine department: gone
Fernando Alonso - leading driver: gone
Andrea Stella - driver engineer: rumored to be gone
Nikolas Tombazis - chief designer: rumored to be gone

The new team president Sergio Marchionne turned Fiat profitable in 2 years in 2006 and then oversaw its megabuck merger with Chrysler a few years back. He is continuing the Ferrari policy of old of sacrificing the scapegoats. It was he who brought Mattiacci in after Domenicali left, and if I was to be ultra cynical of Marchionne's motives, I'd say he is doing a hatchet job to justify the teams exit from F1. One could be forgiven for thinking that the team is on the verge of imploding! The list above of departed people is shocking and clear evidence of the new broom being a bit too indiscriminate.

Among other notables who are no longer active in the team:

Chris Dyer - fired in 2010 after being held responsible for the poor decisions in Abu Dhabi that cost Alonso the title

Aldo Costa - fired in 2011 after being blamed for the poor performance of that years car. Joined Mercedes and the rest is history

Luca Baldisserri: moved from F1 to Ferraris driver academy. Once touted as Brawn's natural successor, he has since drifted into obscurity.

Rob Smedley: followed Massa to Williams as Head of vehicle performance. Again, another case of a Scuderia leaving and finding a performance improvement in his new home.

Of the men named in the post quoted above, IMHO de Montezemelo and Nicholas Tombazi's should have gone ages ago. Likewise, Pat Fry's position is also less that certain with James Allison about. Methinks the scarlet bloodletting may not quite be finished yet......

T-Bird

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

He didnt exclusively reveal it. Its a rumour. Now he doesn't pick these things out of nowhere all the same, i agree.
He said 2017.
Tried find a video of the conversation but cant

I was doing a bit of sarcastic mocking there, But I'm sure he said exclusive. But I agree that it isn't new news, Just Eddie being Eddie.

HighLine

T-Bird wrote: »

I was doing a bit of sarcastic mocking there, But I'm sure he said exclusive. But I agree that it isn't new news, Just Eddie being Eddie.

In fairness to Eddie, he has broken a few true exclusives over the years including Schumacher's return to Mercedes.

PopePalpatine

If I was the VW Group, I'd send in Lamborghini.

Infoanon

HighLine wrote: »

In fairness to Eddie, he has broken a few true exclusives over the years including Schumacher's return to Mercedes.

Lewis move to Mercedes was another, and made a lot of other journos look stupid in the process.