Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

Sunny Dayz

Does anyone know if IW actually send reminders or chase up bills? My bill was due 9/11/15 and I genuinely forgot about it until the start of this month. I then realised that I had not got one reminder from IW. So I just took my time with it and paid it at my leisure over the weekend, the obviously weren't in a panic looking for it. If that was any other utility or service provider I would have gotten a reminder email, letter or a phone call.

Bob24

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Does anyone know if IW actually send reminders or chase up bills? My bill was due 9/11/15 and I genuinely forgot about it until the start of this month. I then realised that I had not got one reminder from IW. So I just took my time with it and paid it at my leisure over the weekend, the obviously weren't in a panic looking for it. If that was any other utility or service provider I would have gotten a reminder email, letter or a phone call.

My answer in one word: elections

Given how difficult it was for the government to put the protests at rest, I suspect IW has been told to keep quiet until the next elections and that running expenses will be covered by other means if people are not paying.

I expect reminders and collection letters start arriving in a few months time.

runawaybishop

Bob24 wrote: »

My answer in one word: elections

Given how difficult it was for the government to put the protests at rest, I suspect IW has been told to keep quiet until the next elections and that running expenses will be covered by other means if people are not paying.

I expect reminders and collection letters start arriving in a few months time.

I got a reminder last week.

EGavigan

Even if you agree with the whole idea of charging people for relieving themselves, you should check before you pay the bill that you are being billed for your water usage and not someone else's. A guy from Coffey Construction called to our door last Friday and asked me to check that our water was turned off. The water was still running which confused him as he was sure he had turned it off at the meter. He then asked me to run the cold tap and he would watch the meter moving. It didn't move which confirmed for him that the meter which is fitted directly outside our house, isn't on our pipe at all but someone else's.

Basically these guys are fitting meters to pipes without checking what they are connected to, so it would be advisable for people themselves to check that you are being billed for your own usage.

gctest50

Bob24 wrote: »

.............
I expect reminders and collection letters start arriving in a few months time.

probably not pushed since there is stuff like this now :

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/bills28/bills/2015/6515/document1.htm

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2015/a2815.pdf

Bob24

EGavigan wrote: »

Even if you agree with the whole idea of charging people for relieving themselves, you should check before you pay the bill that you are being billed for your water usage and not someone else's. A guy from Coffey Construction called to our door last Friday and asked me to check that our water was turned off. The water was still running which confused him as he was sure he had turned it off at the meter. He then asked me to run the cold tap and he would watch the meter moving. It didn't move which confirmed for him that the meter which is fitted directly outside our house, isn't on our pipe at all but someone else's.

Basically these guys are fitting meters to pipes without checking what they are connected to, so it would be advisable for people themselves to check that you are being billed for your own usage.

It definitely is a good idea for people to double check.

However I'm not sure it's fair to say "these guys are fitting meters to pipes without checking what they are connected to" based on the example you mentioned - if I understand you correctly the guy actually detected the mismatch himself by trying to turn off the water at the meter and verifying it has an effect in your house. Was checking which house the pipe is connected to not precisely what he did there?

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

The_Conductor

Heisenberg. wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its not guesswork though- its a flatrate charge, based on the number of occupants (and their ages)- until such time as its metered- at which stage you pay as per the metered amount.

lindascribbler

I have only now realised I had to ring Irish Water to register tenant to ensure I wouldn't have to pay her water charges.
Now tenant has moved (has left me with her refuse, is in arrears with other utilities). IW have said if tenant rings them to say she was a tenant, I won't have to pay but as she's a protestor it's unlikely she will do that.
Have I any comeback or do I just have to suck it up and pay her water charges E300+ ?

The_Conductor

lindascribbler wrote: »

Have I any comeback or do I just have to suck it up and pay her water charges E300+ ?

Take the water charges- and any other utility arrears from her deposit.

lindascribbler

The_Conductor wrote: »

Take the water charges- and any other utility arrears from her deposit.

The house was let through the council...no deposit just guaranteed rent.

The_Conductor

lindascribbler wrote: »

The house was let through the council...no deposit just guaranteed rent.

I'm not sure which scheme you're under- but normally the council will make good any damages, including unpaid bills, left by tenants. If you let through the council- typically you are doing so at a discount to open market rates- and have your rights and obligations, the councils rights and obligations- and those of the tenant- all spelt out in the agreement you have with the council. You need to get a copy of this agreement- and see precisely where you stand.

lindascribbler

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm not sure which scheme you're under- but normally the council will make good any damages, including unpaid bills, left by tenants. If you let through the council- typically you are doing so at a discount to open market rates- and have your rights and obligations, the councils rights and obligations- and those of the tenant- all spelt out in the agreement you have with the council. You need to get a copy of this agreement- and see precisely where you stand.

Thanks for that.
My agreement refers specifically to "damages" caused by tenant as being covered by Council - no mention of utility bills which are presumed to follow the tenant...
But not in this case because it's water and tenant is a protestor. Council are saying it's nothing to do with them....
My only chance as per I W is to get tenant to ring IW to register- then I won't have to pay. Tenant still won't have to pay. However, the way she acted with her rubbish and other bills I am not expecting her to co-operate by making a phonecall for me.

The_Conductor

This is why you need a separate deposit to cover utility bills.......... arrgghhhh!
Looks like you either argue the case with the council- or end up paying it.

pyxxel

Ugh sorry to hear that mate. Any chance of suing her in the small claims court or something? I know, such people can be such a nightmare.

The_Conductor

pyxxel wrote: »

Ugh sorry to hear that mate. Any chance of suing her in the small claims court or something? I know, such people can be such a nightmare.

Its not an appropriate venue.
Cases- such as this- are purely the remit of the PRTB.
Unfortunately- for the landlord- it is likely to cost them far more in time effort and financial cost- than they would ever manage to get back from the ex-tenant (indeed, its highly likely that even if they got a judgement- that the tenant may get away without paying- citing lack of ability- which given the manner in which they housed- could well be legitimate).

Unfortunately- this episode serves only to highlight two issues-

1. the appalling manner in which debts associated with Irish Water are attached to properties- and not those who incur the debts
2. the manner in which we don't have deposit retention schemes that are fit for purpose in this country (I'd argue a minimum of 2 months rent held in escrow- i.e. not by the landlord- should be the new norm).

In this instance- the only possible course of redress for the OP- is to hassle the council- however, I suspect even that would be futile. The only way not to get stung by this in future- is to insist on a reasonable deposit- commensurate to cover any potential damage, to include unpaid utility bills.........

Personally- I'd put it down to experience- and insist on a reasonable deposit from any tenant going forward (it doesn't matter whether its paid by the council- or the tenant themselves- its stupid that there isn't something in place- the simple statement that the council will make good any damage the tenant causes to a property- patently is not sufficient).

OP- your ultimate sanction is to pull the plug and let the property on the open market- demand is such that you are likely to get a large increase in rental income from the get-go- and even the threat of this may be sufficient to focus the council's mind and you may get an offer to make good on the unpaid utility bill...........

gctest50

The_Conductor wrote: »

This is why you need a separate deposit to cover utility bills.......... arrgghhhh!
Looks like you either argue the case with the council- or end up paying it.

be needing these yokes soon :

http://www.syxthsense.com/metering/lmz-0115-wn-s/lmz-0115-wn-s-coin-water-meter/

aidanki

have a sneaky feeling my landlord has pulled a fast one, taken the money from his 4 tenents and not paid the water charges of 240

who can I ring up to see have the charges been paid

runawaybishop

aidanki wrote: »

have a sneaky feeling my landlord has pulled a fast one, taken the money from his 4 tenents and not paid the water charges of 240

who can I ring up to see have the charges been paid

If your landlord didn't advise them then he is liable. You can't get info on someone else's account though.

aidanki

will the local authority not tell me if the water charges have been paid on a particular house

athtrasna

aidanki wrote: »

will the local authority not tell me if the water charges have been paid on a particular house

The local authority has nothing to do with water charges for starters and secondly absolutely not, data protection legislation would prohibit it. If you're concerned about potentially being ripped off, the register your own Irish Water account at the address?

Bob24

aidanki wrote: »

have a sneaky feeling my landlord has pulled a fast one, taken the money from his 4 tenents and not paid the water charges of 240

who can I ring up to see have the charges been paid

Does your lease clearly mention water charges are payable to the landlord, and did you get a receipt when you paid him the money?

If yes you have nothing to worry about and if he didn't pay it is a matter between the landlord and Irish Water, not your problem.

If not, you should ask for these things so that it is clear you are not liable.

Since you are not the registered customer at the address, Irish Water won't give you any information about the status of the payments (and the LA has nothing to do with this, unless for some reason the place you live in is registered a a commercial rather than a residential property, which would be rather strange).

tuisginideach

My student tenants will be moving out at end of this month. Should I insist on proof that they have paid all the water bills to date - I know the bill supposedly follows the tenant but I wonder what would happen if I were to sell the house - will solicitors then want me to clear the bill? Seeing as the question of water charges is in such a mess I feel slightly uncomfortable insisting they pay up now when the rest of the population may have all the charges scrapped ...

I have their deposit so could withold some of that probably if necessary but I don't think irish Water will tell me what is owed anyway.

Bob24

tuisginideach wrote: »

My student tenants will be moving out at end of this month. Should I insist on proof that they have paid all the water bills to date - I know the bill supposedly follows the tenant but I wonder what would happen if I were to sell the house - will solicitors then want me to clear the bill? Seeing as the question of water charges is in such a mess I feel slightly uncomfortable insisting they pay up now when the rest of the population may have all the charges scrapped ...

I have their deposit so could withold some of that probably if necessary but I don't think irish Water will tell me what is owed anyway.

What you need to be sure of is that they were registered with Irish Water during the whole period, I.e. that bills were issued with their name for that address. If yes, I'd say whether they paid or not is irrelevant to you and IW cannot legally chase you for the amount.

If they were not registered however, the amount due will be legally attached to your property rather than the tenants, and you should withhold the amount from their deposit.

tuisginideach

Thanks Bob - I certainly told them to register and I would have 'de-registered' myself and informed Irish Water of the name of the lead tenant but you know how molehills become mountains in the days before a sale closes!

Wanderer78

tuisginideach wrote:

Thanks Bob - I certainly told them to register and I would have 'de-registered' myself and informed Irish Water of the name of the lead tenant but you know how molehills become mountains in the days before a sale closes!

Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't register. Iw, what a mess! Best of luck with it

Bob24

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if they didn't register.

If they were not intending to pay, yes it is pretty likely they intentionally didn't give their names to make sure they are legally off the hook (unless the landlord forced-registered them). Depends if they are compliant kind of tenants I guess.

tuisginideach

They are lovely lads ... so far anyway!

Viriconia

Hi

Moved out of a house there recently, and during the time there did not sign up for or pay Irish Water. Received letters addressed only to 'The Occupier'.

Have moved out now, but the landlord is holding the deposit for payment of the water charges. Just wondering now what the situation is with Irish Water, I can't seem to find any clear information on it any more other than it's suspended now?

Soundman

I don't know any legalities of it, but when I moved out of my last place, my landlord at the time said he'd have to take the €64 or however much it was out of my deposit. I told him similar to what you said in that I had no contract with them, but if he got any letters demanding money or the like that he could get in touch and I would pay what I owed. Once I received my full deposit, I then blocked his number so he couldn't get in touch. Hehe