Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

fxotoole

Maybe there's a problem with the stopcock in your attic tank, causing the attic tank to overflow, and causing a constant inflow of water to your attic tank?

OfTheMarsWongs

fxotoole wrote: »

Maybe there's a problem with the stopcock in your attic tank, causing the attic tank to overflow, and causing a constant inflow of water to your attic tank?

I don't know. There's nothing coming out of the over flow pipe that sticks out under the fascia.

Might get a second plumber in to have another look before I go at it again with Irish Water.

jrby

a separate but related question, I got my first metered bill today for €45 for the last tree months (after the allowance), average house 2 adults plus three kids - this this high, low or average?

my3cents

OP are you sure that when IW switched the water off in the street that your supply was actually cut off so you got no water indoors.

First check is that the meter you are looking at no matter how obvious it may seem to you is actually your meter.

dudara

Post split out and moved to new thread in Accomodation & Property

dudara

dudara

Moved to Accomodation & Property

dudara

Duvetdays

Turn the water off at the meter and ask your neighbors to check if they still have running water. Then you'll know if you're meter is supplying any of their houses.

bigroad

Would it be possible that your meter is fitted on the main waterline.
Check your meter reading and then use 10 liters from your tap and go back to check the reading.

my3cents

bigroad wrote: »

Would it be possible that your meter is fitted on the main waterline.
Check your meter reading and then use 10 liters from your tap and go back to check the reading.

Another possible is that one meter is feeding the OP's house AND one or more other meters.

Victor

If I'm correct: http://www.water.ie/billing-and-charges/charges/

€45 @ €3.70 / 1,000 liters

=> 12,162 litres.

12,162 litres / 90 days = 135 litres / day.

That seems to be quite modest for two people. How much of an allowance are you getting?

dudara

We have been charged €21 - €24 for each of the last three billing cycles. That's for two people in a house. From what I've heard, that appears to be at the low end of the spectrum.

Arbiter of Good Taste

dudara wrote: »

We have been charged €21 - €24 for each of the last three billing cycles. That's for two people in a house. From what I've heard, that appears to be at the low end of the spectrum.

That seems very low. What's your secret?

kkelly77

My brother has been in his rented apt for about 2 yrs. His LL has been onto him twice about 2 bills he has received from IW and is now advising my brother is liable. This is what IW had told his LL. :eek:

My brother never received an application from IW and as such has never signed up to the utility. His LL must have signed up (without advising my brother and to get his free €100) and seems to think that he can now ask my brother for money, effectively acting as an agent/debt collector for IW.

The bill is obviously in the LL's name and is being posted to his home address.

How can my brother be liable? Obviously the LL does NOT live at the rental address.

The Water Services Act 2013 states -

The Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 provides that the ‘customer’ is the occupier of the premises in respect of which the water services are provided

kkelly77

kkelly77 wrote: »

My brother has been in his rented apt for about 2 yrs. His LL has been onto him twice about 2 bills he has received from IW and is now advising my brother is liable. This is what IW had told his LL. :eek:

My brother never received an application from IW and as such has never signed up to the utility. His LL must have signed up (without advising my brother and to get his free €100) and seems to think that he can now ask my brother for money, effectively acting as an agent/debt collector for IW.

The bill is obviously in the LL's name and is being posted to his home address.

How can my brother be liable? Obviously the LL does NOT live at the rental address.

The Water Services Act 2013 states -

"Quote:
The Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 provides that the ‘customer’ is the occupier of the premises in respect of which the water services are provided"

You gave the answer yourself in the quote. As the occupier, the tenant is the customer.

kkelly77

Deleted User wrote: »

"Quote:
The Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 provides that the ‘customer’ is the occupier of the premises in respect of which the water services are provided"

You gave the answer yourself in the quote. As the occupier, the tenant is the customer.

That would be my understanding of the situation. I'm just astounded that that my brother's LL and other LL's are ignorant of who is liable and also think they can start demanding money from people. Unfortunately there will be some tenants who will pay too, as they will be just as ignorant (and intimidated by scary letters, potential loss of deposits or possible evictions as a result).

All the while IW sit back and let their "proxy agents" perform the debt collection on bills people aren't even liable for. :mad:

kkelly77

kkelly77 wrote: »

That would be my understanding of the situation. I'm just astounded that that my brother's LL and others are ignorant of who is liable and also that they think they can start demanding money from people. Unfortunately there will be some who will pay too, as they will be just as ignorant.

All the while IW sit back and let their "proxy agents" perform the debt collection on bills people aren't even liable for. :mad:

But, he IS liable for it. If he is using the water, then it's his bill to pay. It's up to him to make sure that HE is registered, so HE gets the conservation grant.

kkelly77

Deleted User wrote: »

But, he IS liable for it. If he is using the water, then it's his bill to pay. It's up to him to make sure that HE is registered, so HE gets the conservation grant.

I understand what you are saying. My point is that he is not liable for the bills his LL is receiving.

TheChizler

kkelly77 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying. My point is that he is not liable for the bills his LL is receiving.

Put it another way: some landlords insist on paying other utilities and tenants pay them back. I imagine the same rules apply but for many that's an acceptable situation, normally agreed on when they move in.

Bob24

kkelly77 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying. My point is that he is not liable for the bills his LL is receiving.

Indeed he is not liable for these specific bills as they are under someone else's name. But how do you see the situation going forward?

Your brother needs to agree with the landlord whether he wants to pay the bill directly to IW, pay each bill indirectly through the landlord, or have the cost built into the rent at a price everyone agrees on.

Currently he is effectively holding the LL hostage and forcing him to pay the water bill by not registering even though he is the actual customer using the service. If there is no agreement the landlord has an argument to call Irish Water and tell them to disconnect the premises from the water network as he doesn't have any use for the service and there is no other party interested in paying the bills. He likely won't do that as it would too much trouble for everyone, but you can be sure when the time comes for a rent review he will request an extra increase both to recover what he had to pay previously and provision more than enough to cover it in the future. Playing these games is never good in the long term.

ezra_pound

kkelly77 wrote: »

That would be my understanding of the situation. I'm just astounded that that my brother's LL and other LL's are ignorant of who is liable and also think they can start demanding money from people. Unfortunately there will be some tenants who will pay too, as they will be just as ignorant (and intimidated by scary letters, potential loss of deposits or possible evictions as a result).

All the while IW sit back and let their "proxy agents" perform the debt collection on bills people aren't even liable for. :mad:

Because it's the law. Landlords must comply with the law the same as everyone else.

ezra_pound

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/29/section/47/enacted/en/html#part10Water charges

Section 47 of the water services no. 2 act 2015 provides:


47. The Water Services (No. 2) Act 2013 is amended by inserting the following section after section 23:

“Registration with Irish Water

23A. (1) Where water services are provided to a dwelling by Irish Water, the owner of the dwelling shall, subject to subsections (2) and (3) —

(a) register with Irish Water as a customer and confirm whether or not the dwelling is his or her principal private residence, or

(b) notify Irish Water, in writing or in such other form and manner as Irish Water may specify, that he or she is not the occupier of the dwelling and provide—

(i) the date of commencement of any agreement for the occupation of the dwelling, and

(ii) the name of each person with whom the owner has such an agreement for the occupation of the dwelling,

not later than—

(I) 20 working days after the coming into operation of section 47 of the Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2015, and

(II) where there is a change in the occupation of the dwelling after the coming into operation of section 47 of the Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2015, 20 working days after such a change.

ezra_pound

Section 47 (4) of the same act provides:

(4) Notwithstanding section 21(5) and subsection (5) of this section, where the owner of a dwelling fails to comply with subsection (1)(b), the owner shall pay to Irish Water any charge under section 21 in respect of the dwelling for the period from the date of commencement of the agreement for the occupation of the dwelling until the date on which the owner so complies.

runawaybishop

kkelly77 wrote: »

I understand what you are saying. My point is that he is not liable for the bills his LL is receiving.

Why not? He used the water, right? Tenants are liable for utility charges in the vast majority of leases anyway

ezra_pound

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why not? He used the water, right? Tenants are liable for utility charges in the vast majority of leases anyway

Statutory provisions under the environment acts provide that the landlord IS liable if he does not provide Irish water with the tenant's details up to the point where he complies with such requirement.

If he/she provides this information within 20 days of the tenancy commencing then the tenant is liable from the date of the tenancy commencing.

Edit: if the landlord is receiving these bills then one can presume that he is registered, and has not informed Irish water of the tenant's details, meaning that he is still liable.

runawaybishop

ezra_pound wrote: »

Statutory provisions under the environment acts provide that the landlord IS liable if he does not provide Irish water with the tenant's details up to the point where he complies with such requirement.

If he/she provides this information within 20 days of the tenancy commencing then the tenant is liable from the date of the tenancy commencing.

Edit: if the landlord is receiving these bills then one can presume that he is registered, and has not informed Irish water of the tenant's details, meaning that he is still liable.

Tenant used the water, tenant is liable, unless of course tenant is happy enough finding somewhere new to live. Not paying utilities is usually a breech of lease terms and results in a notice of eviction.

pablo128

runawaybishop wrote: »

Tenant used the water, tenant is liable, unless of course tenant is happy enough finding somewhere new to live. Not paying utilities is usually a breech of lease terms and results in a notice of eviction.

If the tenant is liable and pays the LLs bill, will the LL hand over the hundred euro <MOD SNIP > he will have claimed? I doubt it somehow.

Bob24

pablo128 wrote: »

If the tenant is liable and pays the LLs bill, will the LL hand over the hundred euro <MOD SNIP > he will have claimed? I doubt it somehow.

If your 100 euro figure refers to the water conservation grant, keep in mind it can only be claimed for a person's primary residence. So in this case the landlord can't claim it and is paying the full bill (if a tenant/landlord have a good relationship, it is usually in both parties' interest to have the tenant pay the bill directly -and claim the grant - rather than the landlord acting as a proxy and not being able to claim the grant).

runawaybishop

pablo128 wrote: »

If the tenant is liable and pays the LLs bill, will the LL hand over the hundred euro <MOD SNIP > he will have claimed? I doubt it somehow.

No, the ll can't claim it. If the tenant wanted it he should have registered before the deadline.

jrby

Victor wrote: »

If I'm correct: http://www.water.ie/billing-and-charges/charges/

€45 @ €3.70 / 1,000 liters

=> 12,162 litres.

12,162 litres / 90 days = 135 litres / day.

That seems to be quite modest for two people. How much of an allowance are you getting?

hi, we've two adults and three kids so i'm guessing we're getting the allowance for that....

tina1040

A tenant doesn't have to actually register himself with IW. The LL can notify IW of the tenant's name and this means the LL is no longer liable even if the tenant doesn't pay.