Views on new Templecarrig admission policy

recedite

loyatemu wrote: »

Regarding all the fuss over the admission policy favouring CoI - there are only 12 kids from St Patricks in the 2015 intake (not all of them are CoI either). Not sure about Delgany NS but that's a pretty small school so probably not a huge amount from there either.

As was pointed out earlier, the two "new" primary schools next door to TC are not yet turning out the full compliment of pupils...

mrbrianj wrote: »

The numbers in the senior classes in the Gaelscoil are still very small. Last year was the first 6th to finish. On such a small sample number its not safe to assume anything.

And next year apparently there will be yet another primary school starting up, this one in Charlesland.
The new public secondary school was allocated by Dept of Education to cater for all these extra people living in the Greystones/Delgany catchment area.
When the BOM starts restricting access to all these people by bumping up the admissions list anyone who is actually attending COI church services, not only from within Greystones but also from outside the area, there will be friction and resentment, and justifiably so.

Serrano13

And St David's plods along with approx 50 students in first year this year.

7 schools, approx 300 students currently coming out of 6th class. Not everyone can go to Temple Carrig, but parents are voting with their feet and shunning St David's. Why?

loyatemu

Serrano13 wrote: »

And St David's plods along with approx 50 students in first year this year.

7 schools, approx 300 students currently coming out of 6th class. Not everyone can go to Temple Carrig, but parents are voting with their feet and shunning St David's. Why?

That's a very good question - if the current patrons of St David's can't increase demand for the school it should be taken off them - it is seriously under capacity and has been for years, long before TCG was planned.

David's used to have approximately 700 students - based on that there should be enough capacity between David's and TCG for all the 6th class kids (particular as there will always be a proportion who go outside of Greystones to fee-paying schools).

Parents aren't sending their kids there because of poor subject choice, poor facilities and possibly because of the strong Catholic ethos?

mrbrianj

8 Schools that could soon be putting about 50 pupils each through 6th class. There will be another secondary school required before long!

Stallingrad

loyatemu wrote: »

Th
Parents aren't sending their kids there because of poor subject choice, poor facilities and possibly because of the strong Catholic ethos?

Can you elaborate on poor subject choice?

loyatemu

Stallingrad wrote: »

Can you elaborate on poor subject choice?

There's only 2 modern languages, French and Spanish, and you can't do both. TCG also has German & Italian and you can do more than one.

You can't do Music as a subject in David's (though you can do Woodwork which AFAIK is not available in TCG).

Whatever the reason, TCG which is a new school with no track record is oversubscribed; whereas David's which has been there for 50+ years can't fill it's first year.

loyatemu

mrbrianj wrote: »

8 Schools that could soon be putting about 50 pupils each through 6th class. There will be another secondary school required before long!

I think most towns in Ireland the size of Greystones/Delgany would have more than 2 secondary schools.

recedite

loyatemu wrote: »

You can't do Music as a subject in David's..

And no playing fields either, for sports.
The science and computer labs will be state of the art in TCG.
Given the unavoidable handicaps in facilities that St Davids face, you'd think they would concentrate on being the best at music and languages.

Zoo4m8

And TC will have a woodwork room when the building is completed..don't know about metalwork though..IM Humble O there should be both.

Cheeky Chops

loyatemu wrote: »

There's only 2 modern languages, French and Spanish, and you can't do both. TCG also has German & Italian and you can do more than one.

You can't do Music as a subject in David's (though you can do Woodwork which AFAIK is not available in TCG).

Whatever the reason, TCG which is a new school with no track record is oversubscribed; whereas David's which has been there for 50+ years can't fill it's first year.

The choice for Junior Cycle at TCG are great.

No Italian but French, German and Spanish. Alongside the regular subjects there is Music, Drama, woodwork, technical graphics, creative writing, philosophy, sports science, horticulture, advanced maths .... And these are all up and running from prefabs.

stilltryingit

Music and advanced maths are available in St Davids I think? their labs have also been upgraded and Home Ec facilities are excellent too.People are always attracted to new schools, new facilities etc, same in the primary schools.

Son of Jack

St. David's is by no means 'plodding along'.
Take a look at their website: http://www.stdavids.ie/
Have a look for instance at their extra curricular activities (the tab on the far right hand side).

In January of this year, The Journal.ie published '20 Under 20; Ireland's Brightest and Most Inspirational Rising Stars'.
http://www.thejournal.ie/20-under-20-bright-successful-inspirational-irish-teenagers-1826765-Jan2015/
Of the twenty nationwide TWO were recent past pupils of St. David's. Both students were quick to acknowledge the part St.David's had played in their success.

In 2013 the Koni Kats won the F1 School World Championships engineering world championships in London. They were up against teams from thirty other countries! This was no flash in the pan as the following year in Texas, the Bardahl Racing team from the school won for Best Engineered Car at the same competition.

The older staff are a dedicated backbone of the school. The new recruits are great role models with lots to offer; for example a great interest in sports which they share with the students, and also in their subject area.

Far from being in decline, the school has recently got approval for a new extension.

Both my children have attended David's. They are each very different, but both of them found their niche in the school. I was very happy I sent them there. They have a great fondness for and loyalty to the school. When I attend meetings there I see a bright, clean, well equipped school with a happy atmosphere. I am struck by the hard work and dedication of the teachers and their pastoral care. In the decade or so since my older child started there I have seen it going from strength to strength.

I'm sure Templecarrig is a fine school too. Isn't Greystones lucky to have a choice?

There was the novelty of the new last year and the numbers in St. David's dropped ... but I think you will see that they re-establish themselves.

Why bash one to promote the other? Surely they can co-exist.

Serrano13

Hi Son of Jack. I wasn't bashing St David's, just wondering why so many parents, including those with older children attending St David's, turned their back on the school this year.

Temple Carrig is full for 2015 and I know people on the waiting list desperate for a place. Hopefully St David's numbers will recover for 2015.

Son of Jack

I'm apologize Serrano13 if in the way I phrased my post that I suggested you were 'bashing' St David's.

All you said was that they were 'plodding along' and as a parent there, that would not be my experience.

It was said, (and not by you)
that parents weren't sending their children to St. David's because of
'poor subject choice, poor facilities and possibly because of the strong Catholic ethos.'
Again that is not my experience.

'Bashing' is of course too strong a word and I'm sorry I used it as I can see it adds nothing to the discussion.

Occasionally there are threads here about schools in the town
and that which is said is an opinion,
perhaps based on attending the school some twenty years ago.
A parent trying to decide what school to send their children to, might form an inaccurate impression.
I wouldn't consider that fair to the present school.

In my previous post, what I gave some 'real time' information about what the school is like now.

I know this is a discussion forum and people are entitled to give their opinion
but it is so much more helpful, if what is said about subject choices and facilities is facts based.

I was very interested to know why parents opted to sign up for Templecarrig so I asked around.
The top two reasons I heard were

1. that they like the idea of their child being in a small school community
2. their child's friends are going there.

St. David's can't be a small school community so there is no competition there
and so this choice is no reflection on St. David's.

Children have gone to secondary school outside Greystones
because their parents have a preference for
- private schools
- single sex schools
- the school with a strong tradition of playing rugby
- education through Irish
- a particular 'faith' e.g. COI before Templecarrig was established
- a non or multi-denominational approach
- the school that they went to themselves.
Parents are entitled to do this and once again
their choice is no reflection on St.David's.

My 'son and heir' came in from there today saying he had the 'best day ever'.
It's not the first time he said this and I know it won't be the last.

2011

Son of Jack wrote: »

I was very interested to know why parents opted to sign up for Templecarrig so I asked around.

I am sending my child to Templecarrig for a number of reasons including the following:

1. The headmaster has an excellent reputation.
2. The subject choices.
3. iPads instead of books makes sense to me.
4. I taked to some of the students.
5. It is local.
6. The school day starts at 8:15 - As a working single parent this makes a big difference to me.
7. The enthusiasm of the teachers impressed me.
8. My child wanted to go there.


My child was also accepted to St. David's. I went to their open day and was impressed, but not as much as I was by Loretto Dalkey and Templecarrig.

Serrano13

Son of Jack, plodding along a bad choice of words on my part.

Great to hear that your son is happy in school, as all children should be.

recedite

Son of Jack wrote: »

It was said, (and not by you)
that parents weren't sending their children to St. David's because of
'poor subject choice, poor facilities and possibly because of the strong Catholic ethos.'
Again that is not my experience...

I know this is a discussion forum and people are entitled to give their opinion
but it is so much more helpful, if what is said about subject choices and facilities is facts based.

I was very interested to know why parents opted to sign up for Templecarrig so I asked around.
The top two reasons I heard were

1. that they like the idea of their child being in a small school community
2. their child's friends are going there.

St. David's can't be a small school community so there is no competition there
and so this choice is no reflection on St. David's.

In the spirit of remaining "fact-based", what do you mean by "a small school community"? When the patronage of TCG was being offered by Dept of Education, a patron was sought to operate a school being built for up to 1000 pupils. The CoI patron is apparently choosing to operate it at 120 pupils per year, perhaps to avoid diluting their "ethos" too much. That's still 720 pupils. How many pupils are in St. Davids, would it be a lot more?

St. Davids seems to have various sports clubs as "after school activities" in other locations around the town. You can't really compare this to a school that has the facilities in the school grounds, available to be used during school hours.

Can you confirm whether music is currently being offered as a school subject in St Davids during school hours?

I don't think people are bashing schools here. The main concerns are whether optimal use is being made of whatever publicly funded educational facilities are available in the town, and whether all citizens feel welcome to avail of them, regardless of their religious background.

Son of Jack

recedite wrote: »

In the spirit of remaining "fact-based", what do you mean by "a small school community"?

I agree that it is important that contributions are fact-based to be fair to all. When choosing schools one needs accurate information.

Re 'a small school community':
My understanding ... and I am open to correction is that there are 120 students in 1st year Templecarrig approximately.

The parents I spoke to, to whom 'a small school community' appealed were happy to think their pre teen/early teen child would be one of 120 students of their own age instead of one of over five hundred, in their first year of secondary school.

To be honest I was really intrigued by this reason as for me I would love the idea of a school community where the older students look out for the younger ones and where the senior classes are role models for the younger ones. St. David's has a great 'buddy system' where the first year students have a sixth year 'buddy' who looks out for them. A full school community will build up over the next five years in Templecarrig, so that won't be the case indefinitely.

I think I am right in thinking that those 1st years will be going into 5th year before the numbers in Templecarrig will be on a par with the current numbers in St. David's? Parents may well feel by then their children can hold their own as they will be in the mid to late teens.

'A small school community' will not be a factor for long, as numbers in Templecarrig build up year on year, but it was one reason that a number of parents gave me last year, which is why I mentioned it.

recedite wrote: »

St. Davids seems to have various sports clubs as "after school activities" in other locations around the town. You can't really compare this to a school that has the facilities in the school grounds, available to be used during school hours.

I referred to the St. David's website in my post because I think it gives clear account of the great work that is going on in the school.

I drew people's attention in particular to the long list of 'after school activities' because to my mind that list shows the wide range of extra activities in the school.

To me it indicates a staff that are prepared to give of their expertise and free time to provide the students with wide ranging opportunities. I would say there is something for everyone there; whether you are the outgoing performer who takes part in the annual school show or who enjoys debating or a quieter student with an interest in film, computer or chess.

Templecarrig also have a dedicated staff and are providing an admirable range of extra curricular activities. As I said before isn't Greystones a fortunate community to have such good schools.

recedite wrote: »

Can you confirm whether music is currently being offered as a school subject in St Davids during school hours?

In the interest of being fact based,
I didn't say it was
and I don't know.

recedite wrote: »

I don't think people are bashing schools here.

I don't think people are school 'bashing' here either. I used that word in haste. It was the wrong word to use. I took it back. (See post #316)

recedite wrote: »

The main concerns are whether optimal use is being made of whatever publicly funded educational facilities are available in the town, and whether all citizens feel welcome to avail of them, regardless of their religious background.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you talking about schools in general; denominational schools perhaps? Or are you referring specifically to St. David's.

It has been said before on Greystones&Charlesland Boards that St. David's welcome children of all faiths and none.

Post #161

Son of Jack wrote: »

My own children come from a 'mixed' religious background i.e. Christian and none.
Myself or my partner have never had an issue with the religious ethos.
There is respect there for all religions and none.

I seem to recall someone else saying this earlier in this thread, and this would be my own experience too.

recedite

Son of Jack wrote: »

It has been said before on Greystones&Charlesland Boards that St. David's welcome children of all faiths and none...

Yes, and I'm sure TCG would say the same. But saying it while providing "faith formation" and "pastoral care" to all can be quite off-putting to those who don't share the faith. I don't think those who share the faith even realise this, or notice it.
Take what it says on the St Davids website;

The main object of Le Chéile is the development of a vision of Catholic education and overseeing its implementation in the Schools..

Now imagine if your local school was a Muslim controlled school for example. How would you feel about;

The main object of the Muslim Trust is the development of a vision of Islamic education and overseeing its implementation in the Schools..

As you said yourself;

Son of Jack wrote: »

..I am struck by the hard work and dedication of the teachers and their pastoral care...

Everyone respects good teachers. "Pastoral care"... not so much.

However I agree with what you said that if the kids are happy, that is very important. Its something that was not taken into consideration enough by previous generations. That and the dedicated teaching staff is probably why St Davids pupils are achieving great things and getting the awards that you pointed out earlier.

Extra curricular activities are great, and its even better if the facility is provided within the school grounds.
The point being made about the music and the languages though, is that music being taught as a Leaving Cert subject is a bit different to an after school music club.

Son of Jack

Just to say that by 'pastoral care' I didn't mean in religious sense.
but the teachers looking after the wellbeing of the students;
giving them any necessary support.

In my own case we had a family illness to contend with.
I contacted the school and found them a great practical support
and an emotional support for my child.
So we experienced their support first hand.

Overall interesting times for education in Greystones.
Happily we seem to be moving towards accommodating diversity
and providing choices for parents that weren't there in the past.

stilltryingit

recedite wrote: »

I don't think people are bashing schools here. The main concerns are whether optimal use is being made of whatever publicly funded educational facilities are available in the town, and whether all citizens feel welcome to avail of them, regardless of their religious background.

St David's enrolment policy offers equal priority to children from the 7 local schools regardless of their religion, only right in a state funded school.So, hopefully all children are welcome to avail of its facilities. With regard to pastoral care here is a useful definition "Pastoral care is an ancient model of emotional and spiritual support that can be found in many cultures and traditions". I think its something that I hope exists in ALL schools whether run by a particular religion or not.

Shazerina

stilltryingit wrote: »

St David's enrolment policy offers equal priority to children from the 7 local schools regardless of their religion

St Kevin’s N. S., Greystones
St, Laurence’s N.S., Greystones
St. Brigid’s N.S., Greystones
St. Patrick’s N. S., Greystones
Gaelscoil na gCloch Liath
Greystones Educate Together
Delgany National School
- See more at: http://www.stdavids.ie/Policy-Statements/Admissions%20Policy/#sthash.3b5O9rKp.dpuf
Are places offered to children in this order? The three catholic schools are listed first. So potentially, could an intake be filled by pupils from these three schools? I know it's unlikely at the moment if numbers were down to 50 this year, but if things changed does the admissions policy imply that?

stilltryingit

Shazerina:

St David's does not prioritise children from one school ,or from one religion,above children from another school, the policy states "Places will be offered, in order of receipt of completed application form, administration fee and all other documents requested. "

Shazerina

stilltryingit wrote: »

Shazerina:

St David's does not prioritise children from one school ,or from one religion,above children from another school, the policy states "Places will be offered, in order of receipt of completed application form, administration fee and all other documents requested. "

Ah! Thanks for that. Just when I saw the schools listed like that I thought it might be done in that order. Maybe I should have read their website better!😳

recedite

Looks like the Templecarrig admissions policy could fall foul of proposed new legislation....

School admission laws should be changed to ensure no child is refused a school place on the basis of their religion, the State’s human rights advisory body has told the Government.

as reported yesterday

Meanwhile Stephen Donnelly's new party the Social Democrats "have pledged support to the campaign for equality in Education by stating that in a modern democracy, it is not acceptable that a child could be refused a place in a local school on the basis of religion."

Oddly enough, he seems remarkably quiet on the issue when he's in Greystones though.

abacus120

I applied for my daughter for 1st year in 2017 and am so disappointed she did not get a place,she is a long way down on the list,i am presuming she has not got a hope of getting a place being so far down the list.We are both gutted

2011

abacus120 wrote: »

I applied for my daughter for 1st year in 2017 and am so disappointed she did not get a place,she is 58th on the list,i am presuming she has not got a hope of getting a place being so far down the list.We are both gutted

Don't loose hope just yet.
My child was a long way down on the list too, however she got in.

abacus120

2011 wrote: »

Don't loose hope just yet.
My child was a long way down on the list too, however she got in.

Thank,i just cant believe the waiting list,i got a shock this morning

recedite

Is she attending one of the feeder schools, ie a primary school in Delgany or Greystones?

abacus120

recedite wrote: »

Is she attending one of the feeder schools, ie a primary school in Delgany or Greystones?

Yes she is in a local school and i live in the area.