Views on new Templecarrig admission policy

FirstIn

The number of COI kids getting any preference is tiny. See previous posts. The school has only 17% COI kids. That's 20 a year out of 120.

17% of the kids in the school belong to the same faith as the patronage of the school. Crazy. I wonder is there any other faith based school in the country with such a low %. I bet you there isn't.

The reason the political parties voted the way they did is because in the rest of the country it's the RC kids getting the preferential admission. They don't want to upset the RC church and all the RC families getting the guaranteed places. They are the vast majority.

Greystones is quite unique.

Re the school being for the community. It is. It's not like they're enrolling lots of COI kids from outside the locality. They are not. In fact there are local COI kids not getting in. Now that is nuts.

The answer here is the building of another school or as has been pointed out for St David's to become more attractive.

Shazerina

I'm years away from needing a second level school but am already figuring out from following this thread that tc will likely be a closed door to me/mine. Kids will be attending GETNS. That leaves David's which I have nothing against but is not as local to me. And ideally, I would prefer no religious ethos - esp after they will have had 8 years of such a schooling/education. Meanwhile, NWETSS is unlikely to be an option either. Unless they do like tc and rewrite their policy once established to suit the school and its ethos, rather than to live up to the promises made in the tendering process...

mrbrianj

Shazerina wrote: »

I'm years away from needing a second level school but am already figuring out from following this thread that tc will likely be a closed door to me/mine. Kids will be attending GETNS. That leaves David's which I have nothing against but is not as local to me. And ideally, I would prefer no religious ethos - esp after they will have had 8 years of such a schooling/education. Meanwhile, NWETSS is unlikely to be an option either. Unless they do like tc and rewrite their policy once established to suit the school and its ethos, rather than to live up to the promises made in the tendering process...

Is Templecarrig's religious ethos ok?

recedite

FirstIn wrote: »

17% of the kids in the school belong to the same faith as the patronage of the school. Crazy. I wonder is there any other faith based school in the country with such a low %. I bet you there isn't.

TCG cannot be compared to a CoI owned school such as East Glendalough which was built and paid for by the CoI community for their own purposes.
TCG was built by Dept. of Education specifically to cater equally for all local kids attending the named local primary schools.

FirstIn wrote: »

In fact there are local COI kids not getting in. Now that is nuts.

You keep stating this as fact, even when the exact part of the admissions policy which has been inserted there to ensure it does not happen has been pointed out to you. In the last few pages of this thread this has repeatedly been pointed out to you, and the stats (such as have been made public) showing the numbers being admitted were examined and dissected.
You'll have to do better than just restating your assertion as fact.

FirstIn

recedite wrote: »

TCG cannot be compared to a CoI owned school such as East Glendalough which was built and paid for by the CoI community for their own purposes.
TCG was built by Dept. of Education specifically to cater equally for all local kids attending the named local primary schools.

You keep stating this as fact, even when the exact part of the admissions policy which has been inserted there to ensure it does not happen has been pointed out to you. In the last few pages of this thread this has repeatedly been pointed out to you, and the stats (such as have been made public) showing the numbers being admitted were examined and dissected.
You'll have to do better than just restating your assertion as fact.

Did I mention East Glendalough? I'm comparing the % to ALL faith based schools.

Re the fact on local COI kids not getting in. I've first hand experience of this. I'm not naming people here. Recedite, go and ask the school. They will confirm this.

It has been repeatedly pointed out to you how few kids are gaining entry due to religion. The numbers are on the school's website.

Also, you previously stated "So that's 50-60 kids coming out every year from these two schools, who are mostly CoI, and all are in the top priority grouping if they want it."

Yet we're only seeing 20 COI kids in total enter. Someone has something wrong!

recedite

FirstIn wrote: »

Yet we're only seeing 20 COI kids in total enter. Someone has something wrong!

According to the stats released, CoI make up 17% of the school total, which is just over 20 pupils for each year group.
The two local CoI primary schools have traditionally been feeder schools to East Glendalough School, so presumably many CoI families are still sending their kids there. And there are many schools in South Dublin. The point is, if they are active members of the CoI and they choose to go to TCG, they have special access to this Section 5 mechanism, which means they cannot fail to obtain a place.

2011

recedite wrote: »

You keep stating this as fact, even when the exact part of the admissions policy which has been inserted there to ensure it does not happen has been pointed out to you. In the last few pages of this thread this has repeatedly been pointed out to you, and the stats (such as have been made public) showing the numbers being admitted were examined and dissected.
You'll have to do better than just restating your assertion as fact.

It is a fact. I know this first hand

Shazerina

mrbrianj wrote: »

Is Templecarrig's religious ethos ok?

Like I said, I would ideally prefer no religious ethos. For example, from reading the local papers at the time, if I recall correctly the official opening of tc involved a service in St Patk's... This would be alien to my children and family. Just in the same way had it taken place in a synagogue or mosque, it would have been equally unfamiliar to us. As would a mass or ceremony in a Catholic Church at this stage. The ethos of a school permeates the school's being and influences the day to day running of the school. Not necessarily in a bad way. But when it is linked or aligned with one particular church or faith, it could potentially pose problems for us when the beliefs of that church or faith are opposed to ours...

recedite

2011 wrote: »

It is a fact. I know this first hand

OK obviously we don't want names or anything, but are we talking about somebody who attends one of the two local CoI churches on a Sunday morning, or is this just somebody whose grandfather was a protestant?

d2ww

I've said this before but the main issue here is capacity, this school needs to be bigger. It was nuts that they were built this knowing that it would not meet demand. I'm about 200 metres outside the catchment for TC even though it's the closest 2nd level school to us. For parents in the hinderland of Greystones/Delgany, we are being left out in the cold, without a hope of getting our children in.
If people want alter the Patronage, that's fine, but it still leaves children not being able to attend the school of their choice.

2011

recedite wrote: »

OK obviously we don't want names or anything, but are we talking about somebody who attends one of the two local CoI churches on a Sunday morning, or is this just somebody whose grandfather was a protestant?

2 boys that have live Greystones, are in a feeder school and they attend church regularly. They have been told that there are no guarantees.

stilltryingit

2011 wrote: »

It is a fact. I know this first hand

The only reason that a child who is CoI will NOT get into the school (assuming they attended local school and live in the parish) is if their parents forgot to claim active parish affiliation.
The number of CoI children in the school is far higher than 20 per year: There are at least 12 children from outside Greystones who are CoI and probably another 20-30 from Greystones (St Patricks and Delgany NS in the main)

FirstIn

stilltryingit wrote: »

The only reason that a child who is CoI will NOT get into the school (assuming they attended local school and live in the parish) is if their parents forgot to claim active parish affiliation.
The number of CoI children in the school is far higher than 20 per year: There are at least 12 children from outside Greystones who are CoI and probably another 20-30 from Greystones (St Patricks and Delgany NS in the main)

This is very wrong. Read the previous posts. Look at the school's website.

stilltryingit

FirstIn wrote: »

This is very wrong. Read the previous posts. Look at the school's website.

I have read the posts and looked at the website. The stats given seem to cover only admissions of local children and do not include those who are from CoI schools outside Greystones/Delgany (at least 12 per year,all of whom are CoI)

recedite

2011 wrote: »

2 boys that have live Greystones, are in a feeder school and they attend church regularly. They have been told that there are no guarantees.

"Regularly" could be once a year, like every Christmas.
I think what the rector wants is "often"; he wants to see those faces every Sunday morning. Then he will issue the "Letter of Active Parish Affiliation" which grants access under the Section 5 mechanism.

Its crazy that we have a school which was entirely built and funded by the citizens of this state being used as a recruitment vehicle for one religion.

recedite

stilltryingit wrote: »

I have read the posts and looked at the website. The stats given seem to cover only admissions of local children and do not include those who are from CoI schools outside Greystones/Delgany (at least 12 per year,all of whom are CoI)

The stats do not disclose how many admissions were from outside the area. They have deliberately left those figures out of the information that was made public.

recedite

d2ww wrote: »

I've said this before but the main issue here is capacity, this school needs to be bigger.

The current patron has decided to limit intake to 120 per year. TCG was designed to be expandable for up to around 1000 pupils, so if they limit the total to 720, they are only running it at around 72% of its potential capacity.
Here is the original statement the CoI made on that issue when they submitted their bid for patronage control of the school;

Dept. of Education wrote:

(b) Has the patron/ prospective patron provided detail on planned mechanisms to ensure that the proposed school will expand to the size range of 800 to 1,000 pupils (or 400 pupils for a Gaelcholáiste):
Church Of Ireland: Yes, the applicant has addressed this question. They state “The fact that a school under COI patronage could draw on a
wide network of established primary schools throughout North Wicklow once local demand in Greystones and Delgany has been met provides
an assurance that the school could expand to the size range of 800 to 1,000 pupils if that is what the Department requires and parental demand
demonstrates. A post primary school under COI patronage would also seek to develop strong links with the existing post primary school in
Greystones and with Colaiste Chraobh Abhann and collaborate in the interests of pupils in the catchment area”.

But the more "others" they let in, the more they dilute their own "ethos".
Its the same reason they refuse to expand the 2 CoI national schools; there is already enough capacity to serve the CoI population and that's all they want. But in that situation, they own the school buildings and the sites themselves, so they can do whatever they want.

d2ww wrote: »

I'm about 200 metres outside the catchment for TC even though it's the closest 2nd level school to us. For parents in the hinderland of Greystones/Delgany, we are being left out in the cold, without a hope of getting our children in.
If people want alter the Patronage, that's fine, but it still leaves children not being able to attend the school of their choice.

What catchment area are you talking about? Priority is based on attending one of the nominated feeder schools within the feeder area. If the child attends one of those, they should have first priority.

FirstIn

recedite wrote: »

Its the same reason they refuse to expand the 2 CoI national schools; ....

Wrong. ST Patrick's NS have in the last few years moved to a double class, for one of the junior years.

recedite wrote: »

What catchment area are you talking about? Priority is based on attending one of the nominated feeder schools within the feeder area. If the child attends one of those, they should have first priority.

Wrong again.

See the admission policy. Category 1.
"Children attending one of the following schools who permanently reside in the Greystones/Delgany catchment area "

There's so much on the school website. Reading it is important.

d2ww

I'm in the Kilmacanogue/Enniskerry parish, just. Our kids currently go to primary schools down in Bray for family reasons. My eldest boy did apply to the lottery for Pres Bray, but drew a very high number, so there's no chance he will get in there. Anyway, we would prefer a coed school, which leaves for the time being, St. Gerards.

recedite

FirstIn wrote: »

See the admission policy. Category 1.
"Children attending one of the following schools who permanently reside in the Greystones/Delgany catchment area "
There's so much on the school website. Reading it is important.

On the one hand there are the designated feeder schools in the feeder area that the school was built for, as agreed by all the prospective patrons tendering for the patronage at the time.
On the other hand there are some additional clauses inserted by the current BOM which I view as invalid. One of these refers to the CoI parish boundary as having some relevance to the first priority local applicants, which it does not. They may only introduce parish considerations and applicants from the wider CoI parish (which extends from the Sugarloaf to Kilcoole) and indeed other CoI parishes such as Enniskerry and Newcastle, after local demand has been met.
So when they say children "who permanently reside in the Greystones/Delgany catchment area (as delineated by area of the Church of Ireland parishes of Greystones and Delgany)" that is one of these BS clauses that was added in.

d2ww wrote: »

I'm in the Kilmacanogue/Enniskerry parish, just. Our kids currently go to primary schools down in Bray for family reasons.

Unfortunately your family is in a different feeder area, so could only get a place in TCG after Greystones/Delgany local demand has been met.
The good news is that the Dept. of Education are building another secondary school in your own area and you will have first priority there.

2011

recedite wrote: »

"Regularly" could be once a year, like every Christmas.

It could be, in this case it is weekly.

I think what the rector wants is "often";

Yes, he made that clear. Hence the weekly attendance.

The only reason that a child who is CoI will NOT get into the school (assuming they attended local school and live in the parish) is if their parents forgot to claim active parish affiliation.

Not according to the church.

recedite

Maybe the weekly attendance has to be kept up for a certain minimum period. Its really up to the rector to decide whether people are genuine members of the parish.
But in any case, that kind of selection criteria is secondary to the original mandate of the school, which is to provide secondary education to pupils graduating from the 6th classes of the designated feeder schools. The original mandate has nothing to do with parish boundaries, parish catchment areas, or parish membership. It is based on servicing demand from all the feeder schools within the feeder area designated by Dept. of Education.

stilltryingit

The Templecarrig Enrolment policy for 2017 has made a fairly significant change-up until now 120 places have been reserved for children from the 7 local schools. for 2017 (and onwards presumably) it states" The number of places to be allocated to children from Category 1 for admission in September 2017 shall not exceed 120." Category 1 is for children from the 7 local schools.

letape

That is unbelievable. How does this make any sense for a "local" school to discriminate against all other "local" schools.

stilltryingit wrote: »

The Templecarrig Enrolment policy for 2017 has made a fairly significant change-up until now 120 places have been reserved for children from the 7 local schools. for 2017 (and onwards presumably) it states" The number of places to be allocated to children from Category 1 for admission in September 2017 shall not exceed 120." Category 1 is for children from the 7 local schools.

recedite

"Category 1" for local kids was supposed to be the very highest priority.
First they put a new category ahead of it "Category 0", now they put a numbers limit on it. Its all very sneaky.

Charlie-Bravo

How many students will they take in though in each year?

stilltryingit

Up until now they have taken in 132 per year and allocated as follows: 120 for the 7 local schools (category 1) and a max of 12 for Church of Ireland pupils from outside of the local area (category 2). For 2017 there is still a maximum of 132,BUT no limit on category 2 and a MAXIMUM of 120 from the 7 local schools. The intent is obviously to increase provision for C of I children from outside the local area at the expense of non Church of Ireland children from the local schools.

recedite

The school is currently running at less than capacity.
What they are doing is reserving the "right" to use religious discrimination, when and if, the student population expands.

loyatemu

recedite wrote: »

The school is currently running at less than capacity.

is it? there's been a waiting list every year.

abacus120

There is a huge waiting list,my daughter has no hope of getting a place!goes to school in the area,have lived here my whole life,has made no difference to her getting a place.
It's very frustrating,my neighbour has only lived here for a year and got a place,I know it's a lottery etc but still seems very unfair.