"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

Tigger

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

First of all, can't stand Jeremy McConnell, total clown of a man, grade A plonker if ever there was one (as is Stephanie Davis.... wish I never heard of either of them) but still and all, I'm very surprised at how little condemnation there is in general to her apparently beating him about the head and face with a bed post in a hotel over the past few days..... and which she as later arrested for and released the next day.... while pregnant too.

(DM link).

Majority of comments online I've seen were pretty much just saying he must have deserved and sure what does he expect hanging around with someone like her........ which I simply can't imagine being said were the injuries the other way around. I know we had Kelly Brook laughing on This Morning about punching boyfriends (including Jason Statham) and Beyonce's sister kicking Jay-Z in the lift etc........... but there were no injuries to see those cases, so you could almost understand the head in the sand reactions.

Here though there can be no doubt about the level of assault but the reaction just all seems a bit.... meh... to the whole thing. It's been reported by the red tops alright but anyone I have spoken to laughed tbh while they discussed. Certainly a much different reaction than when the photos of Rhinana were splashed across the pages.... not that I'm saying they are the same, I appreciate her injuries did seem worse.... but considering she apparently hit him a bed post, she damn lucky she didn't kill him.





Feel sorry for the kid in all this also...... both of them........ as one day they'll be old enough to Google this crap and be able to see what mammy and daddy got up to when they were young (/on the way).

all the cocaine

Sleepy

Who the **** are Jeremy McConnell and Stephanie Davis? Never heard of either of them.

Whoever she is, she should be on her way to jail for a few months based on the state of his face in those pictures (assuming his story that he didn't lay a finger on her holds up and it wasn't a case of self defence).

Outlaw Pete

Sleepy wrote: »

Who the **** are Jeremy McConnell and Stephanie Davis? Never heard of either of them.

He's a Dublin model and she's a Hollyoaks actress.... they met on Celebrity Big Brother and have been tabloid fodder ever since given their bizarre antics: him denying she was pregnant, her then having a baby, on-off relationship with a bit of revenge porn thrown in.

Sleepy

So scum acting like scum then?

iptba

From the Irish Times:

The domestic abuser next door
Abusers do not always look like abusers – and victims can look like gentle giants
about 11 hours ago
Jennifer O'Connell

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/the-domestic-abuser-next-door-1.3137987

py2006

iptba wrote: »

From the Irish Times:

In a nutshell? (too lazy to read)

iptba

py2006 wrote: »

In a nutshell? (too lazy to read)

She describes a couple who they used to live next to. She could hear through the walls:

Diana suspected Douglas of “fahking” about with his PA. I don’t know how Douglas felt about this accusation because, even in extremis, he rarely said much. On and on she would go, about the life she didn’t sign up for, the kids she didn’t want, the husband who was unfaithful and weak.

Thud.

And whose fahking PA could fahking have him.

Thud.

Useless p***k.

Thud.

Had she thrown something? Hit something? Hit him? I didn’t know. He never made a sound. Never shouted or tried to placate her. That was the worst part, the silence. You’d not have known he was there at all, except you’d see him in the garden the next morning, wordlessly serving pancakes to the kids at 7am. They moved away after a while. Years passed, and I forgot about them, until I read an article recently about how charming men can make dangerous lovers. They can draw you in by being loving and charismatic, it said.

But so too can charming women. The thing about abusers is that they don’t always look like abusers. They can look like a tiny Princess Diana in Coach loafers. The victims of the abuse can look like gentle giants. They can look like reliable men with big jobs who know their way around a barbecue. They can look like me and you. They can look like the nice couple next door.

iptba

I wonder whether men and women will be treated the same in practice if such a law comes in:

Government considering domestic violence offence, UN told

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/government-considering-domestic-violence-offence-un-told-1.3170317

iptba

Lavinia Woodward: Oxford student who was told she could avoid prison sentence 'due to her extraordinary talent' is spared jail

‘Whilst you are a clearly highly-intelligent individual, you had an immaturity about you,’ judge tells aspiring heart surgeon

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lavinia-woodward-oxford-student-prison-jail-extraordinary-talent-10-months-suspended-sentence-stab-a7966486.html

This is a big story in the UK at the moment. It can be looked at as an act of domestic violence. If the genders were reversed I have to wonder would the sentence be different.

blue note

They mention a class bias in the case. That's not the first bias that sprung to mind when I read it. Although there certainly is a class bias.

Rubberchikken

Just read this today.
First thought was if sexes were turned around, I'm betting he would have been jailed or the knives would have been out.
The fact that a conviction might have affected this woman's future chances as a doctor shouldn't have entered the equation. What she was accused of was horrendous and should have been punished by jail time no matter how intelligent or immature she may be.

silverharp

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Just read this today.
First thought was if sexes were turned around, I'm betting he would have been jailed or the knives would have been out.
The fact that a conviction might have affected this woman's future chances as a doctor shouldn't have entered the equation. What she was accused of was horrendous and should have been punished by jail time no matter how intelligent or immature she may be.

and she has decided not to go back to college because "she is too well known" so the reasoning is self cancelling her career is over before it started. she is basically a psycho, nobody will hire her.

Wanderer78

silverharp wrote:

and she has decided not to go back to college because "she is too well known" so the reasoning is self cancelling her career is over before it started. she is basically a psycho, nobody will hire her.

Strange story alright, and I wonder did the fact she comes from a relatively high class have anything to do with the outcome to?

El_Duderino 09

py2006 wrote: »

iptba wrote: »

From the Irish Times:

In a nutshell? (too lazy to read)

Might be worth a read. It's very much the kind of article that you see posters claim they don't see enough of. Never seem to miss a 'where have the good men gone?' article though.

It's written as a lifestyle article rather than hard journalism. One persons personal experience of normal seeming neighbours. He was the solid and silent, she was outgoing and charming. They had a row and she probably hit him. Next morning he was out cooking breakfast for the children as normal. Moral of the story is that domestic abuse can happen among normal looking couples and the abuser can be a charming woman

Sleepy

iptba wrote: »

From the Irish Times:

That's actually a great article. Delighted to see it in the IT.

We lived next to an almost identical couple in Clontarf, though the wife's attempt at a "charming" facade could never contain the fact she was clearly miserable and angry with the world because it wouldn't warp itself to her demands.

johnnyskeleton

Rubberchikken wrote: »

The fact that a conviction might have affected this woman's future chances as a doctor shouldn't have entered the equation. What she was accused of was horrendous and should have been punished by jail time no matter how intelligent or immature she may be.

From the Brock Turner case:

The probation officer weighed the fact that he has surrendered a hard-earned swimming scholarship. How fast Brock swims does not lessen the severity of what happened to me, and should not lessen the severity of his punishment. If a first-time offender from an underprivileged background was accused of three felonies and displayed no accountability for his actions other than drinking, what would his sentence be? The fact that Brock was an athlete at a private university should not be seen as an entitlement to leniency, but as an opportunity to send a message that sexual assault is against the law regardless of social class.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/07/us/outrage-in-stanford-rape-case-over-dueling-statements-of-victim-and-attackers-father.html?referer=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/

Judges have to look at what is best for society and not just have regard to the desire to punish. But in cases of this nature there are increasing calls to hand out heavy prison sentences. Maybe they should give harsher sentences, but it seems to me that its useful to remember that sending a person to prison who is a one off offender will take away a place for a hardened criminal in a prison system that is overcrowded

iptba

Father wins barring order against wife who doctored whey powder

Judge told woman ‘tried to finish me off’ by putting crushed paracetamol in protein

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/father-wins-barring-order-against-wife-who-doctored-whey-powder-1.3266150

iptba

https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/939084360451489793

FishOnABike

The lack of balance and one sided reporting on domestic violence needs to be challenged.

https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2014-06-women-aggressive-men-relationships.html

Research, going back to Erin Pizzey, founder of the first domestic violence shelters, shows that domestic violence is not a gender based issue. Treating it as such leaves half of those who experience domestic violence without a voice and without support.

py2006

I remember an interview on the radio with the woman who set up a lot of women shelters in the UK and she made the point that a lot of the women in these shelters came from violent relationships, meaning it was mutual and not one sided.

alchemist33

FishOnABike wrote: »

The lack of balance and one sided reporting on domestic violence needs to be challenged.

https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2014-06-women-aggressive-men-relationships.html

Research, going back to Erin Pizzey, founder of the first domestic violence shelters, shows that domestic violence is not a gender based issue. Treating it as such leaves half of those who experience domestic violence without a voice and without support.

Half? I'm as glad as anyone that domestic violence against men is being highlighted (e.g. it was in that series of tv ads a few months ago) but let's not get the idea there's a 50/50 gender split among victims. Male victims are a minority - a sizeable minority who deserve support and services - but women are in the majority here.

(Note, just in case - I'm a man, not a feminist of any kind)

FishOnABike

alchemist33 wrote: »

Half? I'm as glad as anyone that domestic violence against men is being highlighted (e.g. it was in that series of tv ads a few months ago) but let's not get the idea there's a 50/50 gender split among victims. Male victims are a minority - a sizeable minority who deserve support and services - but women are in the majority here.

(Note, just in case - I'm a man, not a feminist of any kind)

It's a lot closer to 50/50 than is commonly thought, probably within single digit % of 50/50 according to multiple independent sources of academic research (e.g. Elizabeth Bates, Murray A. Strauss, Richard J. Gelles, Erin Pizzey amongst others).

The constantly repeated myth that it is otherwise has and continues to leave support for male victims of intimate partner violence and abuse drastically under resourced and under funded almost to the point of non- existence.

Wibbs

in nonreciprocal partner physical abuse studies throughout the western world actually show more women as the perpetrator and instigator. Psychological abuse is another matter again.

The main difference being that when men are the physical abusers they simply cause more physical damage and that is more obvious and "public" and naturally causes us and society to apportion more weight to men on women violence.

However, going on both hard data and reported personal experiences, it is far more 50/50 than is believed, acknowledged, or reported. When we look at all manner of relationship couplings this is further illustrated. EG Gay men in relationships report one of the lowest demographics for abuse, but gay women in relationships report the highest and higher than heterosexual couples.

TL;DR, people can be dicks in relationships, regardless of gender, but one gender gets all the media attention and support.

Saruhashi

alchemist33 wrote: »

Half? I'm as glad as anyone that domestic violence against men is being highlighted (e.g. it was in that series of tv ads a few months ago) but let's not get the idea there's a 50/50 gender split among victims. Male victims are a minority - a sizeable minority who deserve support and services - but women are in the majority here.

(Note, just in case - I'm a man, not a feminist of any kind)

I think looking at the split in terms of a percentage is a bad way of looking at it all round.

For example, if there are 900,000 female victims and 100,000 male victims then basing any kind of philosophy or proposed course of action on percentages could leave 100,000 people without adequate support.

Focusing on gender at all probably creates an additional problem for male victims in that they need to try harder to get help.

Why don't we just discuss "victims of domestic violence" without going out of our way to separate the victims into "male" and "female" categories?

Ultimately it means that a "male victim of domestic abuse" is treated differently to a "female victim of domestic abuse" but there's really no need for that.

So, looking at the Women's Council Ireland tweet that was shared there, if one in five women have experienced sexual or physical abuse then that totals up to approximately 400,000 victims, in Ireland.

So if female victims outnumber male victims at a rate of 2 to 1, or 4 to 1, or 10 to 1 (as examples, I couldn't find stats) then the total male victims would be 200,000 , 100,000 or 40,000 respectively. That's an approximation of the number of men who are essentially being ignored based on nothing more than gender.

The fact that women are in the majority is not a useful fact if the consequence of sharing said fact is that male victims are pushed to the fringes.

I don't get the logic that because a majority of victims share a certain characteristic that we need to build some kind of hierarchy of victims (and I'm not saying this is your opinion or what you believe, this isn't really aimed at you).

If we have 20 million to invest in helping victims of domestic violence then why not just invest the 20 million in helping victims? Why would anyone say "hang on there are more female victims than male so lets invest 18 million in helping women and 2 million in helping men"?

In a society obsessed with equality the philosophy of "women and children first" still persists and it is oftentimes supported by the exact same people pushing for equality.

Saruhashi

FishOnABike wrote: »

It's a lot closer to 50/50 than is commonly thought, probably within single digit % of 50/50 according to multiple independent sources of academic research (e.g. Elizabeth Bates, Murray A. Strauss, Richard J. Gelles, Erin Pizzey amongst others).

The constantly repeated myth that it is otherwise has and continues to leave support for male victims of intimate partner violence and abuse drastically under resourced and under funded almost to the point of non- existence.

I'd add another point to this.

Many male victims of violence and abuse will find support in online communities. A man will share a story of intimate partner abuse and will find support from others who have experienced the same. Then those groups will be maligned in mainstream and social media.

I would argue that it's not simply the case that support for male victims under funded and under resourced. I'd argue that any person or organisation or community that seeks to support or even give a voice to male victims will come up against campaigns designed to shut them down (that Red Pill documentary would be a good example).

Zulu

Saruhashi wrote: »

Why don't we just discuss "victims of domestic violence" without going out of our way to separate the victims into "male" and "female" categories?

How very egalitarian of you; my sentiments exactly.

iptba

https://www.facebook.com/womensaid.ie/photos/a.320433328444.150165.121065838444/10155634576883445/?type=3

Women's Aid
December 6 at 4:02pm ·
Myth: “She must have done something to deserve it”

Fact: No woman ever deserves abuse.

The sort of abuse disclosed to Women’s Aid by women using our 24hr National Freephone Helpline is never okay. Every day we hear from women who feel trapped, alone and isolated.
A common reaction to a woman speaking about her experience of domestic violence is to focus on her credibility, her actions and her behaviour. Society analyses and judges her choices. Unhelpful speculation can include suggestions that she is lying or that her actions may have provoked the abuse.

This is typical of a ‘victim blaming’ mentality which focuses on the behaviour of the woman, rather than the perpetrator of the abuse. Blaming is something that abusers will often do to make excuses for their behaviour. This is part of the pattern of abuse. Sometimes abusers manage to convince their victims that they are to blame for the abuse.

The challenge for society is to treat the crime of domestic abuse as seriously as it deserves and place the responsibility solely at the hands of the perpetrator. Until we do, women will remain at risk and afraid to speak up.

Download the postcard series here: https://www.womensaid.ie/about/campaigns/resources

I get the impression male victims are treated similarly.

Though given abuse is quite often mutual, it could well be the case that not all the blame should be placed on one party.

iptba

This was a paid ad in the Irish Times daily email. Happy to see one of the three victims highlighted was male, though a pity it wasn't pointed out that when a man flees like he did there is little or no refuge provision.

A bystander to action: warning signs of domestic abuse

Being a witness to domestic abuse can often leave a person unsure of how to act. Here are stories of people whose experience of domestic abuse was changed by the actions of a bystander

Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 08:00

Sponsored by
Cosc and The Department of Justice and Equality

https://www.irishtimes.com/sponsored/cosc-the-department-of-justice-and-equality/a-bystander-to-action-warning-signs-of-domestic-abuse-1.3324331

iptba

https://meowitstimetoduel.tumblr.com/post/171278682392/just-shower-thoughts-a-guy-can-decline-an

A guy can decline an invitation by saying his girlfriend won’t let him go and everyone will likely understand. But if a girl declines an invitation by saying her boyfriend won’t let her go, people will likely get concerned.

Just came across this on Tumblr. I presume like most things on Tumblr the point is that this is unfair on girls but what it suggests to me is a female partner controlling to some extent a male partner is more socially acceptable than vice versa.

FishOnABike

iptba wrote: »

Just came across this on Tumblr. I presume like most things on Tumblr the point is that this is unfair on girls but what it suggests to me is a female partner controlling to some extent a male partner is more socially acceptable than vice versa.

There's been social experiments done on this featuring a male and female in a public place e.g. street or park with one behaving angrily and abusively towards the other (shouting and either pushing or pulling by the arm)

When the abuser was female and the abused male it was largely either ignored or looked on at with bemusement. When the abuser was male and the abused female there was, almost without exception, a rapid response from bystanders to intervene.

The lack of recognition of female on male intimate partner abuse and the resultant lack of support makes the abuse all the more for a male to cope with.

Often the choice is to suffer in silence or walk away leaving the person who has abused him and their children, in charge of and continuing to abuse their children.

In reality there is no choice other than to suffer in silence.