Numbers up Gerry

Happyman42

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Right thinking decent people who don't randomly murder innocent men women and children so to satisfy sadistic blood lust and then try to justify it in the cause of God and Ulster/Queen and Country/ Irish Freedom.

Would these be the 'right thinking decent' people with the power and responsibility, who stood by and allowed the lid to come off for 40 odd years and then eventually sit down and sort it out, when it was politically expedient to do it? Any blame coming their way?

And by the way, could you tell us how and why these 'sadistic, randomly murdering psychopaths' just suddenly stopped? Wouldn't be the typical behaviour of a psycho, would it?
If you don't understand the psychology of terror campaigns, do some reading, Churchill and hundreds of his forebears knew all about it and wrote the bible on it.
Far as I can see the only ones still killing are the British ones...in the name of democracy and liberty of course (and making sure 'right thinking decent people have enough cheap oil to sleep safely in their beds)

bumper234

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would these be the 'right thinking decent' people with the power and responsibility, who stood by and allowed the lid to come off for 40 odd years and then eventually sit down and sort it out, when it was politically expedient to do it? Any blame coming their way?

And by the way, could you tell us how and why these 'sadistic, randomly murdering psychopaths' just suddenly stopped? Wouldn't be the typical behaviour of a psycho, would it?
If you don't understand the psychology of terror campaigns, do some reading, Churchill and hundreds of his forebears knew all about it and wrote the bible on it.
Far as I can see the only ones still killing are the British ones...in the name of democracy and liberty of course (and making sure 'right thinking decent people have enough cheap oil to sleep safely in their beds)

So the Republicans have just gone away have they? They have stopped killing? There are no dissident Republicans in Ireland anymore killing innocent people?

Happyman42

bumper234 wrote: »

So the Republicans have just gone away have they? They have stopped killing? There are no dissident Republicans in Ireland anymore killing innocent people?

That is not what I said, the republicans depicted by the poster as psychopaths stopped immediately a deal was done and they declared that their war was over. Not the typical behaviour of sadists and psyhcopaths. The British are still killing innocents in pursuit of their aims around the world and will continue to do so with the backing of 'right thinking decent people' who wear their poppies proudly.

bumper234

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

That is not what I said, the republicans depicted by the poster as psychopaths stopped immediately a deal was done and they declared that their war was over. Not the typical behaviour of sadists and psyhcopaths. The British are still killing innocents in pursuit of their aims around the world and will continue to do so with the backing of 'right thinking decent people' who wear their poppies proudly.

But the Republican psychopaths didn't stop immediately they moved from the PIRA ro the RIRA and other dissident groups and to this day continue to torture and kill in the name of Republicanism.

Crooked Jack

K-9 wrote: »

I've no problem in acknowledging IRA bravery, courage and guerilla warfare knowledge. I admire the hunger strikers hugely, which is why I don't dismiss a hunger striker (from the forgotten first hunger strike in 1980) like Brendan Hughes as a liar because it suits. It takes huge courage, conviction and resilience to almost starve to death. I'm not going to dismiss that because it's politically convenient for Adams and his supporters to do it.

I have nothing but admiration for the likes of Brendan Hughes and Billy McKee. My question was for those who are taking them at their word that Adams was responsible and then rubbishing their word when they say she was an informer.
Im not questioning the word of Hughes or McKee, I'm questioning those who want to cherry pick their statements, who claim their word is gospel when it suits them and that they're scurrilous liars when it doesnt.

Happyman42

bumper234 wrote: »

But the Republican psychopaths didn't stop immediately they moved from the PIRA ro the RIRA and other dissident groups and to this day continue to torture and kill in the name of Republicanism.

They have no affiliation to the groups involved in the deal, those groups depicted by the poster as 'psychopathic'.
Please don't generalise about republicanism, it shows a simplicity of thought, the same simplicity of thought that allowed British soldiers to train their guns on innocents throughout the conflict and may I say, the same simplicity of thought that allows people to wear a poppy to honour everything that British soldiers do.

.jacksparrow.

Funny how people will believe the word of Hughes who disagreed with Adams going the peaceful route.

It's one word against the other.

Hughes wanted the violence to continue.

Adams wanted an end to it.

But people will believe Hughes, as if he is a more honest and moral man than Adams.

Something doesn't add up.

awec

No

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Something doesn't add up.

Yea, Gerry.

.jacksparrow.

awec wrote: »

Yea, Gerry.

Very good.

Crooked Jack

awec wrote: »

Yea, Gerry.

Seen this type of deflection several times from several posters. How about one of you actually answer the question. Were the statements of Hughes, Price and McKee trustworthy or not?

bumper234

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

They have no affiliation to the groups involved in the deal, those groups depicted by the poster as 'psychopathic'.
Please don't generalise about republicanism, it shows a simplicity of thought, the same simplicity of thought that allowed British soldiers to train their guns on innocents throughout the conflict and may I say, the same simplicity of thought that allows people to wear a poppy to honour everything that British soldiers do.

So you are telling me that the people who run/are members of the RIRA/INLA and other dissident groups in the country today were never members of the PIRA?

Specialun

My name is URL wrote: »

Go on so.. outline the accusations made directly against Adams in relation to the disappearance of anyone..

I'm pretty sure the premise of the 'documentary', and certainly of this thread; was to show him to be directly responsible for their disappearance. So what new, actually admissible evidence has been put forward to support that?

In your own time, now.

You said there was no evidence. I suggested there was. Now you want "New Evidence". Your moving the goal posts

awec

No

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Seen this type of deflection several times from several posters. How about one of you actually answer the question. Were the statements of Hughes, Price and McKee trustworthy or not?

I've answered that multiple times on this thread - have you actually read it?

Yes, their statements are trustworthy. I believe McConville was an informer and I believe that Adams was involved as alleged. I see no reason for any of them to lie about this - the supposed witch hunt against Adams by those who disagree with his supposed strategy doesn't wash with me.

Her being an informer does not detract from, nor make any less abhorrent the fact that she was taken away, shot and hidden for 31 years.

I think that's the third time I have said that on this thread.

Crooked Jack

awec wrote: »

I've answered that multiple times on this thread - have you actually read it?

Yes, their statements are trustworthy. I believe McConville was an informer and I believe that Adams was involved as alleged. I see no reason for any of them to lie about this - the supposed witch hunt against Adams by those who disagree with his supposed strategy doesn't wash with me.

Her being an informer does not detract from, nor make any less abhorrent the fact that she was taken away, shot and hidden for 31 years.

I think that's the third time I have said that on this thread.

Apologies, I must have mixed you up with an earlier poster I was addressing. This thread was flying through the pages last night after the programme.
Nice to see a clear, consistent opinion for a change, even if I dont particularly agree with all of it.

Happyman42

bumper234 wrote: »

So you are telling me that the people who run/are members of the RIRA/INLA and other dissident groups in the country today were never members of the PIRA?

No, I never said that.
The simplistic moral grandstanding- that some republicans are psychopaths, therefore all republicans are psychopaths - was tried by Unionist/British/Irish establishment media and official outlets all through the conflict. It must have come as a great disappointment to them that events proved them wrong.
It would, incidentally, be wrong to depict the dissidents as psychopathic too, but then certain people will keep making the same mistakes about the Irish question, we are doomed to that unfortunately.
The British are still killing innocents in the name of their aims around the world, when will the poppy wearing 'right thinking decent people' stand up and get morally indignant about that, do you think? Being British, you can speak for the British branch of 'right thinking decent people'.

Buzz84

No

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The IRA and the loyalist paramilitaries and the British security forces were all the same.

Murdering scum.

You cannot defend the mass murders committed by fanatical psychopaths on all sides.

In the case of the hunger strikers - terrorists and murderers who committed suicide because they wanted to usurp the democratic will of the Irish people north and south.

The conflict was only brought to an end when the mad men and women were forced to listen to the peaceful democratic will of right thinking decent people who were ignored for decades will militarists on all sides engaged in a pitiless nihilistic games in which the victims were innocent people.

It is outrageous that terrorists and murderers and scum on both sides would be praised as you have.

That is moral idiocy of the highest order.

What was democratic about Catholics being second class citizens. What was democratic about a sectarian police force. What was democratic about burning people out of their homes. Democracy didnt work for the Nationalist community .

I also at least presume you have the same opinion of The IRA in the War of Independence . That they were murdering scum and just as bad as the black and tans.

SoulAuctioneer

No

If I remember correctly, Brendan Hughes said a british army radio transmitter was found in her flat and she was taken away and given a warning. They checked back a few weeks later and found a replacement transmitter. Then she was taken away for interrogation and execution. I can't believe they just killed the woman for no other reason than to set an example or because she was a protestant from east Belfast as the documentary would lead you to believe.

As for the source who claimed Charlie Armstrong was lifted and murdered because he witnessed a PIRA active service unit in Crossmaglen square, I can't believe anybody would believe such nonsense.

bumper234

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

No, I never said that.
The simplistic moral grandstanding- that some republicans are psychopaths, therefore all republicans are psychopaths - was tried by Unionist/British/Irish establishment media and official outlets all through the conflict. It must have come as a great disappointment to them that events proved them wrong.
It would, incidentally, be wrong to depict the dissidents as psychopathic too, but then certain people will keep making the same mistakes about the Irish question, we are doomed to that unfortunately.
The British are still killing innocents in the name of their aims around the world, when will the poppy wearing 'right thinking decent people' stand up and get morally indignant about that, do you think? Being British, you can speak for the British branch of 'right thinking decent people'.

Fwiw i am against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and believe Britain's foreign policy is too closely tied to America's interest (like a little brother following his big brother if you will). I wear a poppy to remember my Grandfathers who fought in WW1 and 2 and friends of mine who have been injured or killed in recent conflicts.

Dyr

So was there any new evidence about the bearded ones involvement in all this revealed on the programme last night?

Buzz84

No

awec wrote: »

Just finished watching, interesting enough.

Gerry Adams will not have sat comfortably when watching that tonight.

Why there was no proof at all. The only proof came from 2 people opposed and bitter at Sinn Fein as they see them as sell outs. Also Hughes had been suffering mental health problems as well as Dolours Price.

Buzz84

No

Bambi wrote: »

So was there any new evidence about the bearded ones involvement in all this revealed on the programme last night?

No

Dyr

Buzz84 wrote: »

No

So what was the point?

Apart from trying to rescue sticky gilmore and his merry men :P

Happyman42

bumper234 wrote: »

Fwiw i am against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and believe Britain's foreign policy is too closely tied to America's interest (like a little brother following his big brother if you will). I wear a poppy to remember my Grandfathers who fought in WW1 and 2 and friends of mine who have been injured or killed in recent conflicts.

May I suggest you find another way to remember your grandfathers. Because the poppy has been usurped to bolster what the BA do in Iraq and Afghanistan just as the upcoming centenary of WW1 will be used to glorify the British tradition of warmongering.
Some less simplistic people are already beginning to object to that for very obvious reasons;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923

Buzz84

No

SoulAuctioneer wrote: »

If I remember correctly, Brendan Hughes said a british army radio transmitter was found in her flat and she was taken away and given a warning. They checked back a few weeks later and found a replacement transmitter. Then she was taken away for interrogation and execution. I can't believe they just killed the woman for no other reason than to set an example or because she was a protestant from east Belfast as the documentary would lead you to believe.

As for the source who claimed Charlie Armstrong was lifted and murdered because he witnessed a PIRA active service unit in Crossmaglen square, I can't believe anybody would believe such nonsense.

But RTE know fine well people will believe that bull****. Blaming her murder on being a protestant from east Belfast what utter ****e.

Look at the idiots on this thread believing what they want to believe. They believe Hughes when he says Adams made the order yet they don't believe Hughes when he said she was an informer and he personally found the transmitter in her flat.

Buzz84

No

Bambi wrote: »

So what was the point?

Apart from trying to rescue sticky gilmore and his merry men :P

exactly

HansHolzel

re title of the poll, people should know exactly what they're voting for. Google gave me this:

adduction

Web definitions

(physiology) moving of a body part toward the central axis of the body

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=adduction

bumper234

No

Happyman42 wrote: »

May I suggest you find another way to remember your grandfathers. Because the poppy has been usurped to bolster what the BA do in Iraq and Afghanistan just as the upcoming centenary of WW1 will be used to glorify the British tradition of warmongering.
Some less simplistic people are already beginning to object to that for very obvious reasons;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923

Na i'll stick with my annual poppy and help the heroes band thanks.

Happyman42

Had there been anything new or even incriminating in this programme then RTE Radio current affairs programmes would have been all over it this morning...what have we got as a follow up...nada, not a mention of it. Marie Louise O'Donnell swimming in the noddy at the 40ft was more important it seems. The programme was a complete waste of time and taxpayers money, a rehash of old sad news that, like a lot of what happened, will never be resolved.


No doubt we will have the usual assemblage of loons and high moral grounders ringing the Liveline to be morally outraged for an hour or so.

Happyman42

bumper234 wrote: »

Na i'll stick with my annual poppy and help the heroes band thanks.

...and on and on it will go.

HansHolzel

Happyman42 wrote: »

Marie Louise O'Donnell swimming in the noddy at the 40ft was more important it seems.

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