Whats so good about MAC laptops?

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

Just because you say you don't want a function doesn't mean it's not important to other people. The fact that you don't know about Time Machine makes me wonder how long it's been since you used a Mac.

And let's be clear - you said there was NOTHING a Mac could do that a PC couldn't, which is obviously nonsense. All that stuff is done out of the box with no additional software required.

Most of the artists I worked with (I used to be in games and have developed for Mac, Windows, iOS and Android) use Macs for 2D stuff and DTP. 3D modelling was done in ZBrush with a desktop PC, loads of RAM and an expensive graphics card because it was cheaper, but it's also available on OSX. I know an Artist who works for MS and has a Mac on his desk.

You're obviously missing the context. I'm not going to point it out to you again.

Yes, I am aware of Time Machine. Never had to use it though. However Windows has System Restore on XP and Backup and Restore on Win 7 etc

stimpson

Tony EH wrote: »

You're obviously missing the context. I'm not going to point it out to you again.

Yes, I am aware of Time Machine. Never had to use it though. However Windows has System Restore on XP and Backup and Restore on Win 7 etc

Back up and Restore is a long way from Time Machine. It's pretty clear you have little recent experience of OSX.

DesperateDan

Writing any code in a team based project is very counter-productive if one of them has a mac. Depending on what you are writing, you really need to know your sh!t if you want to share an Xcode project with Visual Studio users - and even if you do you must spend time on setting that up.

Macs are gorgeous machines but you really need to be working in your own little bubble if you wish get some serious work done on them. If you use any adobe software, 3D modelling, animating, flash etc. for yourself only, or want simple features like web browsing, creating docs etc. and you have the money, get a mac.

If you want full interoperability with others, the far-superior gaming experience (even the hardiest Mac fans won't argue there), access to basically all non-apple software that's made, and money is a factor, get Windows.

Recent Lifehacker arguments for and against

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

Back up and Restore is a long way from Time Machine. It's pretty clear you have little recent experience of OSX.

Whatever, I'm certainly going into a rundown of years of experience for you.

jester77

There are a few reasons why mac is a better option, but it all comes down to the need of the user.

Battery life is much better, you can get almost a day of use using osx on a single charge. Windows doesn't come close when used on the same machine.

The terminal. Try using the command line in windows, it's horrible, there are workarounds like cygwin but they don't come close to the osx terminal.

Durability. I'm still using my macbook pro from 2008, it's has lots of falls, has some dents but it works very smoothly with the latest version of OSX. I wouldn't like to chance running windows 8.1 on a laptop from 5 years ago.

eeeee

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it. None of the PC's my friends bought at the same time are still going. I used to use if for Final Cut Pro and Photoshop a lot and it never crashed on me. Time Machine is incredibly handy too. I find them more robust and instinctual to use. There are only ever 3 options: basically 'yes, no cancel/variations of. On a PC there are far more options which freak me out! They make sense to my arty brain. My programmer/developer ex couldn't stand them so different strokes for different folks I suppose!

mathepac

Akrasia wrote: »

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with. ...

"Apples" can have as many mouse buttons as you like, or track-pads or touch-screens or joy-sticks or games-controllers

Akrasia wrote: »

... Apple put style over usability sometimes and I don't like it. Other people do, but I don't.

I'd suggest you need to review your understanding of "usability"

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers (in 2008), a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right. ...

Sounds like either a Microsoft or a user problem as Apple don't produce MS Word. There are various versions of MS Word out there some of which have file formats that are incompatible with other versions of MS Word on the same platform.

It's a bit like the English language we use to communicate. Despite the fact that it's been around for quite a while, some people still struggle to use it correctly.

Akrasia wrote: »

... At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place....

All you really needed to do was was to "Save As..." from MS Word on the Mac choosing the file format that was compatible with MS Word on Windoze, all part of the standard "Save.../Save As..." dialogues on MS Word and other apps on multiple OSes.

Or maybe it was simply that the fonts / typefaces you used to produce the document on the Mac were not installed or licensed on the Windoze machine. MS Word (certain versions) allows you to embed the fonts/typefaces in the document to improve compatibility.

Other options could have been to connect your Mac to the destination printer, "print as PDF" on the Mac and move the output fie to the Windoze machine and printer, etc, etc etc.

Akrasia wrote: »

... It was very stressful

Not knowing what you're doing is usually stressful.

stimpson

DesperateDan wrote: »

Writing any code in a team based project is very counter-productive if one of them has a mac. Depending on what you are writing, you really need to know your sh!t if you want to share an Xcode project with Visual Studio users - and even if you do you must spend time on setting that up.

Macs are gorgeous machines but you really need to be working in your own little bubble if you wish get some serious work done on them. If you use any adobe software, 3D modelling, animating, flash etc. for yourself only, or want simple features like web browsing, creating docs etc. and you have the money, get a mac.

If you want full interoperability with others, the far-superior gaming experience (even the hardiest Mac fans won't argue there), access to basically all non-apple software that's made, and money is a factor, get Windows.

Recent Lifehacker arguments for and against

I've never used XCode for Windows stuff. We'd develop on Windows with VS, port to Mac/iOS and develop on OSX. I never had any major problems integrating code across platforms (using Perforce). I had far more love for XCode as a dev environment than Visual Studio.

Having said that, I used Boot Camp and VMware to run Windows and I thought the Mac made a very capable Windows box.

Point taken about gaming, but then I'm a console/mobile gamer. Anything I play on a desktop wouldn't require much horsepower.

Torqay

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

You just cannot reason with fanatics because for them it is no longer a computer, it is a social movement.

"I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community," said Elizabeth Frost, production director for Morning Pictures Group.

The World Takes a Sip of Apple's Kool-Aid

Tony EH

gadetra wrote: »

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it....

I have a Samsung running win 7 from 08-09. Runs fine still.

My wife has a HP running XP that stills workd perfectly and that from 2006.

mathepac

Torqay wrote: »

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

...

So ...

Overheal

Akrasia wrote: »

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with.

I'm including the laptops, desktops and Iphones in this.

I had to use an Imac in college a few years ago and the mouse just pissed me off. They tried to pretend they had one mouse button but they had workarounds (to zoom in you could cover two bits on both sides of the mouse, how is that not worse than just pressing the middle mouse button???)

Actually you can right-click on a mac now. OSX even has a right-click context menu.

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers (in 2008), a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right.

At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place.

It was very stressful

Office 2011 for Mac.

You can also edit from SkyDrive or Office.com

Fact is, your information on the Apple platform is 5 years obsolete.

Stimpson wrote:

- retrieve any old version of any file

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/back-up-your-computer-with-windows-8-file-history.html

"Not only does File History work in emergencies, but it also enables you to compare current files with versions you created just hours before. It lets you revive better versions of files that you've changed for the worse."

- run without anti virus software

sure you can. But i wouldn't recommend not having it on Mac either. There are still viruses out there for OSX.

- automate common desktop tasks

While I don't bother, isn't this essentially what a batch file and the task scheduler are for?

- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box

Which if windows tried, by including Skype, people would complain and call it bloat :rolleyes:

- create a PDF from any app you can print from

Are you not familiar with the Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Been doing this for years.

- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system

All Professional/Ultimate editions of windows have been doing this at least since Vista.

- run without hanging up

What an incredibly subjective argument. If you wan't to compare a $1200 machine to a $500 one, sure one is going to hang while under the same workload. You make it sound as if I can't spec a much more powerful laptop for the same cost as a MBP and stop it from hanging. My desktop hasn't had a real hangup since the last time I had the file indexer running, at initial setup. Its really hard to hang a machine with 6 processor cores and an SSD.

So many staggering generalizations in this thread. Back to the OP's actual question:

Macs are not without their competitors, and they are not necessarily the "best" units available. For graphics for instance, one could always go and get a workstation laptop. You'll pay even more than you do for some Macs, but your performance in the higher end 3D applications (eg. Maya) will be far superior to what you can get on any consumer laptop, which a mac essentially is. That comes down to specialized hardware, like Firepro/Quadro GPUs which you aren't finding in an off-the-shelf laptop. Those are cards that suck at gaming but if you're someone like a Pixar animator, thats what you take on a lunch break.

In the consumer space I don't think they're the best, but they are compelling if you get around the basic fact that they are comparably more expensive both to purchase and to maintain and repair. Unibody aluminum/aluminium (your pick) and proprietary screw heads for instance, complicate some of the repair work. Advantage though is this body holds up very well to normal wear and tear, with great hinges, scuff resistance, cooling, and the magsafe charger eliminates about 30% of your risk of repair. The charger port is a big trouble spot on the average laptop for damage.

As for OSX it's not my cup of tea but it lends itself to being fairly straightforward, and I do like the finder/spotlight search functionality, but it has a glaring complaint from me and thats the lack of touch. You do have a wide range of trackpad gestures available but at first glance these can seem just as confusing as windows touch controls. I'm also not a fan of the window controls or the lack of Snap which I grew very accustom to. It does integrate some nice "Apple Ecosystem" features of course, like iMessage, iCloud, AirPlay, etc. so thats something to consider if those features are important to you. I do own an iPhone and I could see the nicety in responding to texts from my computer but it's not worth it to me to go out and change my platform over.

At the end of the day they're very nice and I'm not going to judge people for having one but I don't feel that its a purchase for everyone. I'm also not a big fan of the dent in your compatibilities. That is, having to look for peripherals and software that work with Mac. That usually means paying more money for the same mouse that is colored white. Then there are the adapters. Apple loves adapters and they love selling them. MBP requires a Thunderbolt to VGA or DVI adapter to plug into your typical monitor. Or you have to find one which sports HDMI, which narrows the field a smidge.

Whats so good about Mac laptops? They're very stylish, built well, and operate well. Whats not so good? Compatibility, adapters, and cost:performance ratio.

Overheal

Torqay wrote: »

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

You just cannot reason with fanatics because for them it is no longer a computer, it is a social movement.

The World Takes a Sip of Apple's Kool-Aid

gadetra wrote: »

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it. None of the PC's my friends bought at the same time are still going. I used to use if for Final Cut Pro and Photoshop a lot and it never crashed on me. Time Machine is incredibly handy too. I find them more robust and instinctual to use. There are only ever 3 options: basically 'yes, no cancel/variations of. On a PC there are far more options which freak me out! They make sense to my arty brain. My programmer/developer ex couldn't stand them so different strokes for different folks I suppose!

Depends on how you treat them. I have a DV6500t from HP still going strong. Centrino Duo baby! And its been dropped, had its screen and motherboard swapped out (that all happened year 1), and the ram and wireless card upgraded for ****s and giggles to 4GB and N300. Last week I considered putting an SSD in there. Its already been upgraded to windows 7. Its 6 years old, an SSD will easily get it to 10. That 8400M GS can play Crisis as well on low settings. Proud of it.

jester77 wrote: »

Battery life is much better, you can get almost a day of use using osx on a single charge. Windows doesn't come close when used on the same machine.

I want to say this is another subjective argument but the judges say this one is true:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/169055-why-do-windows-pcs-have-such-terrible-battery-life-compared-to-mac-and-ios




Now these are tablet benchmarks but still, at 11 and 14 hours I can't think of any windows laptops with that life.

stimpson

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/back-up-your-computer-with-windows-8-file-history.html

"Not only does File History work in emergencies, but it also enables you to compare current files with versions you created just hours before. It lets you revive better versions of files that you've changed for the worse."

FH only works on your libraries. TM works on your whole machine.

sure you can. But i wouldn't recommend not having it on Mac either. There are still viruses out there for OSX.

Never had a problem in 10 years of Mac ownership. I've never met anyone who has had a virus on their mac

While I don't bother, isn't this essentially what a batch file and the task scheduler are for?

It's a million miles away from a batch file and task scheduler.

Which if windows tried, by including Skype, people would complain and call it bloat :rolleyes:

I'm sure it won't be long before they do. Windows Phone already does.

Are you not familiar with the Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Been doing this for years.

XPS != PDF

All Professional/Ultimate editions of windows have been doing this at least since Vista.

OK - my bad - you have me there. I would argue that OSX's implementation is better (not locked to your user account)

What an incredibly subjective argument. If you wan't to compare a $1200 machine to a $500 one, sure one is going to hang while under the same workload. You make it sound as if I can't spec a much more powerful laptop for the same cost as a MBP and stop it from hanging. My desktop hasn't had a real hangup since the last time I had the file indexer running, at initial setup. Its really hard to hang a machine with 6 processor cores and an SSD.

I have a quad core 2.66 GHz machine in work running Windows 8. Switching from say, IE with 10 tabs open to Word and the hard drive will go mad as it swaps stuff out to disk and takes 5-10 seconds to complete. I do it at home on my 2009 2GHz Core2duo MacBook and there is no fuss - it just switches. Maybe I do need a 6 core SSD monster for the same performance.

looking_around

bobjohn82 wrote: »

I am not an apple fan boy at all - I don't like the iPhone one bit, but when it comes to the MacBook, I personally think it's way ahead. My overall experience is it just feels faster. When it boots you can use it instantly, unlike windows where you have to spend 3 minutes watching the desktop in that pretend ready state. I have a decent spec windows laptop too (HP dv7) and the comparison is night and day. After 18 months the battery is dead and it has to be plugged in all the time. Everything is laggy. On the mac when you start a program it starts instantly. It's just ready and you can start working. I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that but I am a software developer and I have never had any performance issues. The MacBook Pro I have is about 4 years old too. I never got that long out of a windows machine.

Just to be the other side of the coin.

My partner has a macbook. Short of 2 years, the battery was all but dead. So..mute point.
Battery longevity is generally based on how long you leave it plugged in to the charger.
__

On the mac vs PC
__
I'd love a macbook Air for travelling and writing work. They have a robust casing, with a nice smooth interface. Easy switching from program to program.
Mind you for 300 quid less, I could get similar elsewhere with win8.

For gaming, and any true graphic intense programs. Windows wins all the way.
There's more compatibility for windows too. And that in itself makes things easier.

Overheal

stimpson wrote: »

FH only works on your libraries. TM works on your whole machine.

forgive me but I don't appreciate the distinction. My files are what I am concerned with. A driver? I can rollback a driver. I can perform a system restore. I can even Refresh the whole OS with my files in place.

Never had a problem in 10 years of Mac ownership. I've never met anyone who has had a virus on their mac

Work a repair desk then. They're out there. You are certainly less likely to encounter a problem with malware on a Mac, but that white glowing logo isn't a license to be stupid.

I'm sure it won't be long before they do. Windows Phone already does.

And frankly I wouldn't mind? They already tie Skype into your live account, and your Office 365 subscription. I'm wondering how long before they introduce a bundle-subscription for 365/XBL/Skype/XBMusic (But my God, have tried Spotify?)

XPS != PDF

True enough. PDFs would be more atypical. For most uses they're functionally the same PDFs do live up to the portability claim.

I have a quad core 2.66 GHz machine in work running Windows 8. Switching from say, IE with 10 tabs open to Word and the hard drive will go mad as it swaps stuff out to disk and takes 5-10 seconds to complete. I do it at home on my 2009 2GHz Core2duo MacBook and there is no fuss - it just switches. Maybe I do need a 6 core SSD monster for the same performance.

Interesting. Memory problem on the work machine? Check your performance tab in Task Manager, it should let you know exactly what your RAM anatomy is (in-use/read-write/prefecth/etc). I don't even have that problem on the Surface Pro and this thing in terms of CPU power is an i5 1.7ghz ULV. On all my machines though I've never encountered any big problems launching the office suite, in fact it on average takes about 2-3 seconds to go from launch command to splash to full program. When was the last time you did maintenance on the work machine, or is it done by IT? Could be the disk is fragmented too.

In truth our own personal-use machines get better TLC than other devices. Even machines I own which haven't been turned on in a while run like crap. Machines need uptime to perform their maintenance cycles.

mathepac

looking_around wrote: »

... So..mute point. ....

or maybe deaf to all arguments. :rolleyes:

Overheal

mathepac wrote: »

or maybe deaf to all arguments. :rolleyes:

stimpson

Overheal wrote: »

forgive me but I don't appreciate the distinction. My files are what I am concerned with. A driver? I can rollback a driver. I can perform a system restore. I can even Refresh the whole OS with my files in place.

That's fine if you only keep your files in your user folder. Unfortunately for me, I can't do that due to the way I work. It's a stupid limitation anyway.

Work a repair desk then. They're out there. You are certainly less likely to encounter a problem with malware on a Mac, but that white glowing logo isn't a license to be stupid.

The instances of malware on OSX is vanishingly small compared to Windows. It's built on inherently more secure foundations and is less of a target for hackers. I remember one exploit coming to light last year and it was quickly patched.

True enough. PDFs would be more atypical. For most uses they're functionally the same PDFs do live up to the portability claim.

Except if you try to open them on a non Windows platform

Interesting. Memory problem on the work machine? Check your performance tab in Task Manager, it should let you know exactly what your RAM anatomy is (in-use/read-write/prefecth/etc). I don't even have that problem on the Surface Pro and this thing in terms of CPU power is an i5 1.7ghz ULV. On all my machines though I've never encountered any big problems launching the office suite, in fact it on average takes about 2-3 seconds to go from launch command to splash to full program. When was the last time you did maintenance on the work machine, or is it done by IT? Could be the disk is fragmented too.

Both have 4GB of RAM, 0% fragmentation. RAM usage on my PC is currently 3.1GB in use, 171 MB free. I would have plenty of apps open on both machines. I think OSX memory management is just superior.

DaithiMC

stimpson wrote: »

What work can you do that you can't on OSX?

I have Macs and windows boxes at home and I have no problem sharing between them. You obviously haven't used a Mac in some time.

Drag and drop files from a NAS drive, from the same location, on to a windows machine or Android device. The one thing above all that Apple don't do well is share, it is effectively a closed loop system that is designed to bring customers to it by buying a plurality of Apple devices. If you buy an iPad, iPhone, iBook you will no doubt be in Nirvana as all this works seamlessly and well. Try to use multiple device from multiple vendors and it all starts to fall apart. I guess you can use Dropbox or email, etc. but to get a file from a fileserver to your iPad and Android device is not simple.

I love their products, the way they work, the way they look but because I like to dabble in different technologies I prefer to remain outside their ecosystem or, I guess, their iSystem. In short, I suppose, I hate their business model.

mathepac

Overheal wrote: »

... Work a repair desk then. ...

What the heck for? I assume that like most people I use my Mac to help me with work-related and socially-oriented tasks. Why would you suggest that someone take up a particular line of work because of the brand of lap-top they use?

Overheal wrote: »

... Interesting. Memory problem on the work machine? Check your performance tab in Task Manager, it should let you know exactly what your RAM anatomy is (in-use/read-write/prefecth/etc). ...

Ah yes, Windoze renowned user-friendliness. IME, Windoze machines are popular with techs because they keep techs in work speaking tech to each other.

Overheal wrote: »

... When was the last time you did maintenance on the work machine, or is it done by IT? Could be the disk is fragmented too. ...

In the context of the current discussions it might be more appropriate to know when was the first time I've done any maintenance on my 2006 MacBook, my 2009 Mac mini or my 2012 Mac mini, in the absence of an IT department. The answer is never. Never ever. I have two original iMacs that still work and they have never had a spanner laid on them.

Apart from the late 2012 Mac mini, which I upgraded to 16GB RAM myself, the others were delivered with RAM maxed by Apple, so they've never needed to have the cases cracked.

The MacBook (white plastic bodied version) has travelled Europe and Ireland with me for almost 7 years getting attached to all sorts of AV equipment for presentations and lectures and has never missed a beat. I've used Nokia and Sony-Ericsson phones as remotes with it when the little white remote went MIA. I've run other people's AV stuff on it from USB sticks and DVD when their mighty "all-compatible" Windoze machines couldn't hook up to projectors or other on-site AV systems.

I met a man at a conference in Dublin whose whizz-bang failed and I ran his stuff for him on my MacBook. Two years later I met him in London and when his later and greater whizz-bang also failed, I duly obliged with the same MacBook.

I've travelled with a variety of power outlet adapters and AV connectors and never once has my MacBook failed me or others. We are both now just retired, but there's a few years life left in both of us yet.

mathepac wrote: »

or maybe deaf to all arguments. :rolleyes:

still a good pun despite your nastiness.

Overheal

stimpson wrote: »

That's fine if you only keep your files in your user folder. Unfortunately for me, I can't do that due to the way I work. It's a stupid limitation anyway.

I'll look into this later. I do have the features enable but I feel like I can go to a folder's properties and enable this in non-standard file system locations but I am not certain of this.

Except if you try to open them on a non Windows platform

Correct. Compelling reason to buy a mac? no, but that's cool.

Both have 4GB of RAM, 0% fragmentation. RAM usage on my PC is currently 3.1GB in use, 171 MB free. I would have plenty of apps open on both machines. I think OSX memory management is just superior.

i'll give you that. I'm also watching the live stream of todays announcement. Mavericks further improves memory optimization using what they're calling "memory compression." They claim they can squeeze 6GB of virtual memory into 4GB of physical memory. Ooh, and Mavericks is just announced as Free swag for anyone as far back as a 2007 unit.

mathepac

DaithiMC wrote: »

... The one thing above all that Apple don't do well is share, it is effectively a closed loop system that is designed to bring customers to it by buying a plurality of Apple devices. ...

At a guess I'd opine you have limited experience working in standards-based, heterogeneous computing environments. The one thing Apple computers have always done exceptionally well is to share. From day one the Apple Macintosh had networking and sharing built in, unlike PCs which needed additional hardware and software to talk to each other.

Overheal

mathepac wrote: »

What the heck for? I assume that like most people I use my Mac to help me with work-related and socially-oriented tasks. Why would you suggest that someone take up a particular line of work because of the brand of lap-top they use?

My point, in case you missed it, is that I've encountered mac viruses. People bring them in for removal.

In the context of the current discussions it might be more appropriate to know when was the first time I've done any maintenance on my 2006 MacBook, my 2009 Mac mini or my 2012 Mac mini, in the absence of an IT department. The answer is never. Never ever. I have two original iMacs that still work and they have never had a spanner laid on them.

Apart from the late 2012 Mac mini, which I upgraded to 16GB RAM myself, the others were delivered with RAM maxed by Apple, so they've never needed to have the cases cracked.

The MacBook (white plastic bodied version) has travelled Europe and Ireland with me for almost 7 years getting attached to all sorts of AV equipment for presentations and lectures and has never missed a beat. I've used Nokia and Sony-Ericsson phones as remotes with it when the little white remote went MIA. I've run other people's AV stuff on it from USB sticks and DVD when their mighty "all-compatible" Windoze machines couldn't hook up to projectors or other on-site AV systems.

I met a man at a conference in Dublin whose whizz-bang failed and I ran his stuff for him on my MacBook. Two years later I met him in London and when his later and greater whizz-bang also failed, I duly obliged with the same MacBook.

I've travelled with a variety of power outlet adapters and AV connectors and never once has my MacBook failed me or others. We are both now just retired, but there's a few years life left in both of us yet.

You seem to have also obtusely misunderstood what I refer to as maintenance.

DaithiMC

mathepac wrote: »

At a guess I'd opine you have limited experience working in standards-based, heterogeneous computing environments. The one thing Apple computers have always done exceptionally well is to share. From day one the Apple Macintosh had networking and sharing built in, unlike PCs which needed additional hardware and software to talk to each other.

Way to take a sliver of what I said and repost out of context. Its not that they don't have connectivity its that I have to create two libraries on Storage devices if I want to grab files from it with iDevices and other hardware, whereas I can easily pull down files from one location with a windows or Android device, even without internet access, i.e., on a closed internal network.

Torqay

What's so good about MAC laptops?

That the good folks at Apple's "premium authorised service provider" in Dublin charge you only 700 yoyos if the screen of your MBA needs to be replaced.

But i'll give Apple that, shaft your customers left, right, and centre and make them feel good about it is pure genius.

stimpson

Overheal wrote: »

i'll give you that. I'm also watching the live stream of todays announcement. Mavericks further improves memory optimization using what they're calling "memory compression." They claim they can squeeze 6GB of virtual memory into 4GB of physical memory. Ooh, and Mavericks is just announced as Free swag for anyone as far back as a 2007 unit.

Cool. Free OS is a compelling reason

Before anyone says it, Win 8.1 is a service pack.

mathepac

Overheal wrote: »

My point, in case you missed it, is that I've encountered mac viruses. People bring them in for removal. ...

???

Overheal wrote: »

...
You seem to have also obtusely misunderstood what I refer to as maintenance.

Repairing and/or defragmenting files, fixing busted directories, repairing broken linkfiles, aliases, etc, tuning swap-file sizes, purging system logs, setting up user accounts, resizing caches, installing OS / security patches (by the hundreds on Windoze), keeping "drivers" updated, all that good stuff? Is that what you mean? All that make-work stuff attached to Windoze installations? Disabling log-ins with a "Closed for Maintenance" sign?

The_Honeybadger

To make a fair comparison of mac vs win you'd really need to look at the price range mac operate in. €1200-€1500 is what you will pay for a Mbp minimum, if you want more ram, ssd, better screen etc you are looking at over €2k. You would get an absolutely stonking windows machine for that money.

People on here talking about build quality and longevity are comparing their very expensive macs to budget laptops, the mac will beat it on every score naturally. It's a completely unfair comparison however. Someone said earlier that apple do not compete in the budget price range and they hit the nail directly on the head. There are plenty of windows based machines that will last as long as a mac and beat it hands down in terms of performance. It comes down to personal preference after that. Apples marketing and brand loyalty is the envy of every other company on the planet, meaning they price their products accordingly. No way I would pay €2k for what you get with an mbp but others think it's a fair price, each to their own.

GTE

It is an interesting area. As an audio engineer I work in an industry that is very Apple-centric. I am different in that I am young enough (23) to have been come into the industry when things have changed dramatically.

Basically, one program has dominated digital audio for many years and it simply wasnt written for windows and then when it was, it ran better on Mac, it also did its audio processing out of the computer and in its own hardware since computer technology wasn't powerful enough. The Mac was purely to host the audio program.

Now, with the advent of dual and quad core processing, the processing that was done out of the computer can now be done in the computer itself. Windows has also gotten better and program writers now have audio programs that are genuinely multi-platform.

We are now in a situation where the use of Apple and the program I was talking about is more out of badge snobbery rather than an objective assessment of the needs of the engineer and capabilities of the computer options. Audio people are not techy people entirely so have fallen into the same trap that Dr. Dre Beats headphones have done to the clueless general pubic.

An audio engineer (like myself) would never recommend the Beats headphones yet a lot of them would go out of their way to get a Mac when a PC could be cheaper and run the same software just as well if not better.

So, that is an informal insight into an Apple dominated industry.

Me? Well I have ordered an all metal Dell laptop for 1600 euro which would have cost me 2800 euro spec for spec with the new MacBook Pro. To be fair, I can not configure a standard 15" MacBook anymore. They have replaced it with a Retina only model. 1600 gets me a dual core, slow HDD, standard screen 13" model.

Macs are nice machines and I would have no issue on their build quality but they certainly do play on the human side of being human, which is pretty pathetic.

That said, I understand there may still be situations where certain programs work better on Macs and if the Mac is the price of using that program then I guess that is just how things have to be.