Whats so good about MAC laptops?

danish pasterys

Dont wanna start a big heated arguement here because I know how serious people take this stuff, but I just want to know why an apple mac laptop is supposedly so much better than other laptops other than there nice sleek look dosent it do the same thing as another laptop with the same specs

Why are they so much more expensive?
Fare enough if they last alot alot longer than other laptops, are they the fastest laptop on the market ?

VincentLeB

If another laptop has the same specs, then yes, they are more or less the same. It just comes down to whether you like the software on a Mac compared to Windows.

But even if a laptop has similar specs, there are some things which are pretty unique to Apple. The build quality is just so much better. Like pick up most laptops and they'll bend slightly and the plastic will creak and stuff. With Apple, you have a whole metal body in one piece that has been cut out of aluminium. If you don't need this — fine — but you'd pay the same price from another manufacturer if they did a unibody construction.

The keyboard and the trackpad are really, really good too. Like the trackpad is all glass and it's ridiculously smooth. Try spending a few weeks with the trackpad on a Mac laptop and you'll go mad trying to use one on another computer.

So to answer your questions: Macs are not that much more expensive than laptops which have similar specs. And if they are, it is probably because the build quality is a bit better. The point being: Apple don't make cheap laptops. They're not really more expensive — they just don't cater for the lower end.

But having said that, Macbook Airs are better than anything you'll get in their class or price range. They have TWELVE hours of battery life in something that is so light, sturdy, thin and beautiful. They have all flash SSDs, which means they have much less moving parts than comparable laptops with spinning hard drives.

yer man!

I often think a windows fanatic views apple a lot like this

For the record I think they're great. I Bought mine for college and for the reason that it was slim and had amazing battery life. 3 years on and my MacBook Pro still gets 7 hours of life on single charge is is more than fast enough for what I need right now.

Torqay

danish pasterys wrote: »

Fare enough if they last alot alot longer than other laptops, are they the fastest laptop on the market ?

They don't last longer than other laptops.

They're far from being the fastest laptops on the market. On the contrary, the best graphics you'll get with a MacBook Pro is a 1GB Nvidia GT 650M, which is, well, rubbish.

VincentLeB

Torqay wrote: »

They don't last longer than other laptops.

They're far from being the fastest laptops on the market. On the contrary, the best graphics you'll get with a MacBook Pro is a 1GB Nvidia GT 650M, which is, well, rubbish.

Funnily enough, when most people talk about things being fast, they're talking about the user experience, not some arbitrary graphics spec. People do the same thing when it comes to iPhones vs. Android phones. But when it comes down to user experience (as in, touch latency), the iPhone, even with it's pettier RAM and slower processor wins out in actual experience and speed.

And even if we were to look at specs to determine how fast something is, we'd come to the RAM, processor, and SSD before we'd get to the graphics card unless we're talking about graphics-heavy stuff.

What's even funnier, though, is that Macbook Pros are the laptops of choice for people doing graphics-intensive stuff. So looks like it's a moot point no matter what way you look at it.

Akrasia

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with.

I'm including the laptops, desktops and Iphones in this.

I had to use an Imac in college a few years ago and the mouse just pissed me off. They tried to pretend they had one mouse button but they had workarounds (to zoom in you could cover two bits on both sides of the mouse, how is that not worse than just pressing the middle mouse button???)

Graham

You will also find a mac laptop has something else that almost no other laptop has. A residual value.

stimpson

Akrasia wrote: »

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with.

I'm including the laptops, desktops and Iphones in this.

I had to use an Imac in college a few years ago and the mouse just pissed me off. They tried to pretend they had one mouse button but they had workarounds (to zoom in you could cover two bits on both sides of the mouse, how is that not worse than just pressing the middle mouse button???)

Your sig is apt. The Magic Mouse has 1 button, but it works like 2 depending on the finger you use to click. Plus it's an entire touch surface. You can do some pretty impressive things with 3rd party apps.

As for them lasting longer, my 4 year old unibody MacBook runs 10.8. Looks like it will run Mavericks too. Last year I sold a 5 year old Mac Mini for €250. They definitely last longer and hold their value better.

Akrasia

stimpson wrote: »

Your sig is apt. The Magic Mouse has 1 button, but it works like 2 depending on the finger you use to click. Plus it's an entire touch surface. You can do some pretty impressive things with 3rd party apps.

And Chun Lee can do lots of cool moves, but most people who pick her just do the kick kick kick. The standard 2 or 3 button mouse works extremely well. Having a second button on a touchpad/phone/mouse allows one button for selecting objects, and the other for interacting with them. That is better than having to learn off a load of gestures to do the same thing as a simple 'right click'

Apple put style over usability sometimes and I don't like it. Other people do, but I don't.

Graham

Akrasia wrote: »

The standard 2 or 3 button mouse works extremely well. Having a second button on a touchpad/phone/mouse allows one button for selecting objects, and the other for interacting with them. That is better than having to learn off a load of gestures to do the same thing as a simple 'right click'

Apple put style over usability sometimes and I don't like it. Other people do, but I don't.

Good point, extra buttons always work better. Just ask Nokia/Blackberry, ohhhhh wait. :pac:

Akrasia

Graham wrote: »

Good point, extra buttons always work better. Just ask Nokia/Blackberry, ohhhhh wait.

You can have too many buttons, and you can have two few buttons. I like to use machines with just the right number of buttons

stimpson

Akrasia wrote: »

And Chun Lee can do lots of cool moves, but most people who pick her just do the kick kick kick. The standard 2 or 3 button mouse works extremely well. Having a second button on a touchpad/phone/mouse allows one button for selecting objects, and the other for interacting with them. That is better than having to learn off a load of gestures to do the same thing as a simple 'right click'

Apple put style over usability sometimes and I don't like it. Other people do, but I don't.

You can use it as a 2 button mouse by clicking on the left side of the button. I don't know why you have such difficulty with it.

Graham

Akrasia wrote: »

You can have too many buttons, and you can have two few buttons. I like to use machines with just the right number of buttons

stimpson wrote: »

I don't know why you have such difficulty with it.

The extra buttons are probably required to make Chun Lee go kick kick kick.

For real work though, I find a trackpad more comfortable. Each to their own I guess.

Getting back to the OP, after a day or two of use you won't find the trackpad vastly different to similar trackpads on any modern laptop other than multi-touch is implemented well.

Tony EH

danish pasterys wrote: »

Dont wanna start a big heated arguement here because I know how serious people take this stuff, but I just want to know why an apple mac laptop is supposedly so much better than other laptops other than there nice sleek look dosent it do the same thing as another laptop with the same specs

Why are they so much more expensive?
Fare enough if they last alot alot longer than other laptops, are they the fastest laptop on the market ?

Because Apple make them. That's all.

If you're thinking of getting a laptop, be sure it'll suit your needs. If you want to surf the web and look at email and join the "kewl" gang, then by all means get a mac.

But if you want to actually do some work and be able to share that work with others, to move files between different types of machines without hassle and to generally be more compatable with others you are working with, then get a windows based machine.

Also, they don't last a lot longer than "other" laptops and they are hideously overpriced.

In their defence, they are made well and they do look nice, but if I have to do work of any kind, I'll choose a windows machine any day of the week.

stimpson

Tony EH wrote: »

But if you want to actually do some work and be able to share that work with others, to move files between different types of machines without hassle and to generally be more compatable with others you are working with, then get a windows based machine.

What work can you do that you can't on OSX?

I have Macs and windows boxes at home and I have no problem sharing between them. You obviously haven't used a Mac in some time.

Akrasia

Tony EH wrote: »

But if you want to actually do some work and be able to share that work with others, to move files between different types of machines without hassle and to generally be more compatable with others you are working with, then get a windows based machine.

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers (in 2008), a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right.

At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place.

It was very stressful

Dubdude

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers, a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right.

At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place.

It was very stressful

Why didn't you just create a pdf of it??

JoseyMosey

What gets me about a Mac laptop is the incredible prices you have to pay here in Ireland. Even with the postage, there's a huge saving just looking on Ebay at the UK prices compared to what you can buy them for retail here. Shop around.
They are nice bits of kit though.

pistolpetes11

Torqay wrote: »

They don't last longer than other laptops.

They're far from being the fastest laptops on the market. On the contrary, the best graphics you'll get with a MacBook Pro is a 1GB Nvidia GT 650M, which is, well, rubbish.

Ive used PC's most of my life until 7 years ago , Well I still do to an extent but 90% of my usage would be on a Mac,

I do live visual graphics shows using a program called Arkaos or Resolume ,

I Cant remember the exact model numbers but I got a top of the Range Acer Machine about 8 years ago to run my shows , and it was brilliant , so good I got a second one to mix across.

Both machines after around 8 months started to give a lot of trouble , constant warranty repairs from motherboards to fans and screens, after 12 months they would not entertain the machines any more and they both packed in one after the other.

A friend told me to try the MacBook Pro ,it was dam expensive for what it was spec wise ,

7 years on and that Macbook has now been retired to home use and he indoors still uses it on a daily basis with out any hassle ,

Now the build quality may have been bad on the Acer Model I got and you will get everyone with good and bad stories but for me, for Professional work (A/V work) I would not look past a Mac ,

For a simple home use machine I think they are a bit if a luxury.

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

What work can you do that you can't on OSX?

I have Macs and windows boxes at home and I have no problem sharing between them. You obviously haven't used a Mac in some time.

Not since last year no, but I doubt that they've changed much in that time, wouldn't you.

In short, they're just awkward. I had endless problems with sending files to PC users. I had to use a zip cleaner before I sent any zips. Files would be incompatible if created on the macbook and then sent to PC users in some other office.

The half assed versions of the Office suite was a bit of a joke too and considering I was working with a lot of documents, under hefty time constraints, it made life hell.

Plus "Finder" is, in short a load of bollocks. It's nowhere near the tool that "Explorer" is.

On the whole, it was just a pain in the arse.

Macs appeal to the "It looks nice" and the "Anti-Microsoft" brigade, but I certainly wouldn't use one out of choice, not for any kind of intensive work, that's for sure.

stimpson

It's a little more than ironic that you both complain about Office for Mac, which is a Microsoft product (FWIW, I'm not anti-MS - I use a Win 8 machine in work). Pages works better than Word on the Mac and will provide better compatibility with Word. In fairness, I've had formatting issues on different Windows versions of Word.

Like I said, I've had no issues on my home setup transferring between Mac and PC - the current implementation of Samba works pretty well on the Mac.

If you think Explorer is a well engineered piece of software then you have bigger problems. It has improved considerably in Win7/8, but I've still had it hang for 5-10 seconds while doing things like trying to connect to a network share, invoke a context menu etc. I use Total Commander on Windows because Explorer sucks so bad. I'm not crazy about Finder either, but it's head and shoulders above Explorer for general usability.

Torqay

VincentLeB wrote: »

What's even funnier, though, is that Macbook Pros are the laptops of choice for people doing graphics-intensive stuff.

Surely you do not mean 3D modelling or gaming, because such "intensive stuff" requires graphics power a Macbook simply does not possess.

This argument was only true in the days when the Macintosh with Quark Xpress was the King of the DTP-Hill... a time long bygone.

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

It's a little more than ironic that you both complain about Office for Mac, which is a Microsoft product (FWIW, I'm not anti-MS - I use a Win 8 machine in work). Pages works better than Word on the Mac and will provide better compatibility with Word. In fairness, I've had formatting issues on different Windows versions of Word.

Like I said, I've had no issues on my home setup transferring between Mac and PC - the current implementation of Samba works pretty well on the Mac.

If you think Explorer is a well engineered piece of software then you have bigger problems. It has improved considerably in Win7/8, but I've still had it hang for 5-10 seconds while doing things like trying to connect to a network share, invoke a context menu etc. I use Total Commander on Windows because Explorer sucks so bad. I'm not crazy about Finder either, but it's head and shoulders above Explorer for general usability.

Nonsense. Finder is a fraction of what Explorer is, warts and all. There's no competition whatsoever.

And of course Office is a Microsoft product, so what? The fact is, is that the vast majority of the worlds businesses uses microsoft's suites, so when people are working, regardless of which hardware they're using, they'll be in contact with those microsoft suites, whether they like it or not. I'm sitting here in front of an Excel sheet and I can't say I'm too happy about it.

But what I am happy about is that it's on a Windows 7 PC.

Because I know that when I send it off to someone else, I won't have to worry about whether they can use it or not.

Tony EH

Originally Posted by VincentLe
What's even funnier, though, is that Macbook Pros are the laptops of choice for people doing graphics-intensive stuff.

Torqay wrote: »

Surely you do not mean 3D modelling or gaming, because such "intensive stuff" requires graphics power a Macbook simply does not possess.

This argument was only true in the days when the Macintosh with Quark Xpress was the King of the DTP-Hill... a time long bygone.

This hoary old cliche gets dragged out time and time again and falls flat on its face every time it comes into contact with someone who knows what they're talking about.

There's NOTHING a mac can do that a PC can't.

MadYaker

I like the user interface, maybe I'm just used to using macs but I find it much more intuitive than windows, and I have a windows PC at home. I also like the build quality.

Torqay

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

A friend told me to try the MacBook Pro ,it was dam expensive for what it was spec wise ,

7 years on and that Macbook has now been retired to home use and he indoors still uses it on a daily basis with out any hassle ,

Now the build quality may have been bad on the Acer Model I got and you will get everyone with good and bad stories but for me, for Professional work (A/V work) I would not look past a Mac

So? I have a 10 year old Dell Latitude in pristine condition here, 1440x900 WXGA display, Pentium M 2.1 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 64 GB PATA SSD, the works... a real trooper.

Personally, I wouldn't touch anything Acer with a 12 ft barge pole but there are PC makers who build quality and longevity that even surpasses Apple (and are still cheaper).

bobjohn82

I am not an apple fan boy at all - I don't like the iPhone one bit, but when it comes to the MacBook, I personally think it's way ahead. My overall experience is it just feels faster. When it boots you can use it instantly, unlike windows where you have to spend 3 minutes watching the desktop in that pretend ready state. I have a decent spec windows laptop too (HP dv7) and the comparison is night and day. After 18 months the battery is dead and it has to be plugged in all the time. Everything is laggy. On the mac when you start a program it starts instantly. It's just ready and you can start working. I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that but I am a software developer and I have never had any performance issues. The MacBook Pro I have is about 4 years old too. I never got that long out of a windows machine.

I don't think software wise there is any transition really. Most stuff is there on the mac with a similar interface. Design wise I don't have a preference over OS X / Windows (though I haven't try win 8 yet). I would just go with the MacBook for speed (not better hardware - actual responsiveness you can notice immediately).

Having said all that, maybe I've just been very unlucky with all the windows machines I've had. But I don't intend to spend another grand finding out.

stimpson

Tony EH wrote: »

There's NOTHING a mac can do that a PC can't.

Off the top of my head:

- run OSX and Windows natively
- develop for iOS devices
- run without anti virus software
- run without constantly hanging
- automate common desktop tasks
- run spell check and dictionary from any edit box in any app
- retrieve any old version of any file
- instantly view the contents of a file in Finder
- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box
- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system
- create a PDF from any app you can print from


Sorry it took me so long to reply. IE crashed and it had to be killed in Task Manager, which itself took 20 seconds to wake up from (Not Responding)...

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

Off the top of my head:

- run OSX and Windows natively
- develop for iOS devices
- run without anti virus software
- run without constantly hanging
- automate common desktop tasks
- run spell check and dictionary from any edit box in any app
- retrieve any old version of any file
- instantly view the contents of a file in Finder
- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box
- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system
- create a PDF from any app you can print from

Sorry it took me so long to reply. IE crashed and it had to be killed in Task Manager, which itself took 20 seconds to wake up from (Not Responding)...Yeh right

- run OSX and Windows natively <---- Big deal
- develop for iOS devices <---- Big deal and thats only because it's locked down by apple.

- run without anti virus software <---- Big deal, get an antivirus program (some are free. I use Avast and have never had a virus on any machine I use)

- run without constantly hanging <---- Not true
- automate common desktop tasks <---- I'm sure if I was bothered to look into it, I could find the same for PCs. There are plenty of automated tasks happening right now on my PC.

- run spell check and dictionary from any edit box in any app<---- PCs can do this too, I have a spellchecker running for this site.

- retrieve any old version of any file <---- eh?

- instantly view the contents of a file in Finder <---- Big deal

- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box <---- Big deal

- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system <---- PCs can't do this?

- create a PDF from any app you can print from <----PCs can't do this?

Nothing above is earth shattering and I'd wonder if half of what you've listed is nonsense.

Besides, I was talking in context about "people doing graphics-intensive stuff" which was the comment being remarked upon.

stimpson

Tony EH wrote: »

- run OSX and Windows natively <---- Big deal
- develop for iOS devices <---- Big deal and thats only because it's locked down by apple.

- run without anti virus software <---- Big deal, get an antivirus program (some are free. I use Avast and have never had a virus on any machine I use)

- run without constantly hanging <---- Not true
- automate common desktop tasks <---- I'm sure if I was bothered to look into it, I could find the same for PCs. There are plenty of automated tasks happening right now on my PC.

- run spell check and dictionary from any edit box in any app<---- PCs can do this too, I have a spellchecker running for this site.

- retrieve any old version of any file <---- eh?

- instantly view the contents of a file in Finder <---- Big deal

- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box <---- Big deal

- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system <---- PCs can't do this?

- create a PDF from any app you can print from <----PCs can't do this?

Nothing above is earth shattering and I'd wonder if half of what you've listed is nonsense.

Besides, I was talking in context about "people doing graphics-intensive stuff" which was the comment being remarked upon.

Just because you say you don't want a function doesn't mean it's not important to other people. The fact that you don't know about Time Machine makes me wonder how long it's been since you used a Mac.

And let's be clear - you said there was NOTHING a Mac could do that a PC couldn't, which is obviously nonsense. All that stuff is done out of the box with no additional software required.

Most of the artists I worked with (I used to be in games and have developed for Mac, Windows, iOS and Android) use Macs for 2D stuff and DTP. 3D modelling was done in ZBrush with a desktop PC, loads of RAM and an expensive graphics card because it was cheaper, but it's also available on OSX. I know an Artist who works for MS and has a Mac on his desk.

mathepac

Tony EH wrote: »

... But if you want to actually do some work and be able to share that work with others, to move files between different types of machines without hassle and to generally be more compatable with others you are working with, then get a windows based machine. ...

Sorry, but those statements make it sound like you don't know much about anything.

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

Just because you say you don't want a function doesn't mean it's not important to other people. The fact that you don't know about Time Machine makes me wonder how long it's been since you used a Mac.

And let's be clear - you said there was NOTHING a Mac could do that a PC couldn't, which is obviously nonsense. All that stuff is done out of the box with no additional software required.

Most of the artists I worked with (I used to be in games and have developed for Mac, Windows, iOS and Android) use Macs for 2D stuff and DTP. 3D modelling was done in ZBrush with a desktop PC, loads of RAM and an expensive graphics card because it was cheaper, but it's also available on OSX. I know an Artist who works for MS and has a Mac on his desk.

You're obviously missing the context. I'm not going to point it out to you again.

Yes, I am aware of Time Machine. Never had to use it though. However Windows has System Restore on XP and Backup and Restore on Win 7 etc

stimpson

Tony EH wrote: »

You're obviously missing the context. I'm not going to point it out to you again.

Yes, I am aware of Time Machine. Never had to use it though. However Windows has System Restore on XP and Backup and Restore on Win 7 etc

Back up and Restore is a long way from Time Machine. It's pretty clear you have little recent experience of OSX.

DesperateDan

Writing any code in a team based project is very counter-productive if one of them has a mac. Depending on what you are writing, you really need to know your sh!t if you want to share an Xcode project with Visual Studio users - and even if you do you must spend time on setting that up.

Macs are gorgeous machines but you really need to be working in your own little bubble if you wish get some serious work done on them. If you use any adobe software, 3D modelling, animating, flash etc. for yourself only, or want simple features like web browsing, creating docs etc. and you have the money, get a mac.

If you want full interoperability with others, the far-superior gaming experience (even the hardiest Mac fans won't argue there), access to basically all non-apple software that's made, and money is a factor, get Windows.

Recent Lifehacker arguments for and against

Tony EH

stimpson wrote: »

Back up and Restore is a long way from Time Machine. It's pretty clear you have little recent experience of OSX.

Whatever, I'm certainly going into a rundown of years of experience for you.

jester77

There are a few reasons why mac is a better option, but it all comes down to the need of the user.

Battery life is much better, you can get almost a day of use using osx on a single charge. Windows doesn't come close when used on the same machine.

The terminal. Try using the command line in windows, it's horrible, there are workarounds like cygwin but they don't come close to the osx terminal.

Durability. I'm still using my macbook pro from 2008, it's has lots of falls, has some dents but it works very smoothly with the latest version of OSX. I wouldn't like to chance running windows 8.1 on a laptop from 5 years ago.

eeeee

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it. None of the PC's my friends bought at the same time are still going. I used to use if for Final Cut Pro and Photoshop a lot and it never crashed on me. Time Machine is incredibly handy too. I find them more robust and instinctual to use. There are only ever 3 options: basically 'yes, no cancel/variations of. On a PC there are far more options which freak me out! They make sense to my arty brain. My programmer/developer ex couldn't stand them so different strokes for different folks I suppose!

mathepac

Akrasia wrote: »

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with. ...

"Apples" can have as many mouse buttons as you like, or track-pads or touch-screens or joy-sticks or games-controllers

Akrasia wrote: »

... Apple put style over usability sometimes and I don't like it. Other people do, but I don't.

I'd suggest you need to review your understanding of "usability"

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers (in 2008), a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right. ...

Sounds like either a Microsoft or a user problem as Apple don't produce MS Word. There are various versions of MS Word out there some of which have file formats that are incompatible with other versions of MS Word on the same platform.

It's a bit like the English language we use to communicate. Despite the fact that it's been around for quite a while, some people still struggle to use it correctly.

Akrasia wrote: »

... At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place....

All you really needed to do was was to "Save As..." from MS Word on the Mac choosing the file format that was compatible with MS Word on Windoze, all part of the standard "Save.../Save As..." dialogues on MS Word and other apps on multiple OSes.

Or maybe it was simply that the fonts / typefaces you used to produce the document on the Mac were not installed or licensed on the Windoze machine. MS Word (certain versions) allows you to embed the fonts/typefaces in the document to improve compatibility.

Other options could have been to connect your Mac to the destination printer, "print as PDF" on the Mac and move the output fie to the Windoze machine and printer, etc, etc etc.

Akrasia wrote: »

... It was very stressful

Not knowing what you're doing is usually stressful.

stimpson

DesperateDan wrote: »

Writing any code in a team based project is very counter-productive if one of them has a mac. Depending on what you are writing, you really need to know your sh!t if you want to share an Xcode project with Visual Studio users - and even if you do you must spend time on setting that up.

Macs are gorgeous machines but you really need to be working in your own little bubble if you wish get some serious work done on them. If you use any adobe software, 3D modelling, animating, flash etc. for yourself only, or want simple features like web browsing, creating docs etc. and you have the money, get a mac.

If you want full interoperability with others, the far-superior gaming experience (even the hardiest Mac fans won't argue there), access to basically all non-apple software that's made, and money is a factor, get Windows.

Recent Lifehacker arguments for and against

I've never used XCode for Windows stuff. We'd develop on Windows with VS, port to Mac/iOS and develop on OSX. I never had any major problems integrating code across platforms (using Perforce). I had far more love for XCode as a dev environment than Visual Studio.

Having said that, I used Boot Camp and VMware to run Windows and I thought the Mac made a very capable Windows box.

Point taken about gaming, but then I'm a console/mobile gamer. Anything I play on a desktop wouldn't require much horsepower.

Torqay

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

You just cannot reason with fanatics because for them it is no longer a computer, it is a social movement.

"I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community," said Elizabeth Frost, production director for Morning Pictures Group.

The World Takes a Sip of Apple's Kool-Aid

Tony EH

gadetra wrote: »

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it....

I have a Samsung running win 7 from 08-09. Runs fine still.

My wife has a HP running XP that stills workd perfectly and that from 2006.

mathepac

Torqay wrote: »

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

...

So ...

Overheal

Akrasia wrote: »

Apples only have one mouse button, therefore, they're annoying as hell to work with.

I'm including the laptops, desktops and Iphones in this.

I had to use an Imac in college a few years ago and the mouse just pissed me off. They tried to pretend they had one mouse button but they had workarounds (to zoom in you could cover two bits on both sides of the mouse, how is that not worse than just pressing the middle mouse button???)

Actually you can right-click on a mac now. OSX even has a right-click context menu.

I don't know if they've fixed this now, but when I was handing in my Masters dissertation to the printers (in 2008), a 50,000 word document that was prepared on the Apple version of MS Word, the formatting was all incompatable with the Windows version of MS Word so the pages didn't print right.

At the last minute, I had to basically re-edit the entire document on a windows machine to make sure the page numbers, footers, diagrams and charts etc were all in the right place.

It was very stressful

Office 2011 for Mac.

You can also edit from SkyDrive or Office.com

Fact is, your information on the Apple platform is 5 years obsolete.

Stimpson wrote:

- retrieve any old version of any file

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/back-up-your-computer-with-windows-8-file-history.html

"Not only does File History work in emergencies, but it also enables you to compare current files with versions you created just hours before. It lets you revive better versions of files that you've changed for the worse."

- run without anti virus software

sure you can. But i wouldn't recommend not having it on Mac either. There are still viruses out there for OSX.

- automate common desktop tasks

While I don't bother, isn't this essentially what a batch file and the task scheduler are for?

- make voice or video calls to any other mac or iOS device out of the box

Which if windows tried, by including Skype, people would complain and call it bloat :rolleyes:

- create a PDF from any app you can print from

Are you not familiar with the Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Been doing this for years.

- create an encrypted file store anywhere in the file system

All Professional/Ultimate editions of windows have been doing this at least since Vista.

- run without hanging up

What an incredibly subjective argument. If you wan't to compare a $1200 machine to a $500 one, sure one is going to hang while under the same workload. You make it sound as if I can't spec a much more powerful laptop for the same cost as a MBP and stop it from hanging. My desktop hasn't had a real hangup since the last time I had the file indexer running, at initial setup. Its really hard to hang a machine with 6 processor cores and an SSD.

So many staggering generalizations in this thread. Back to the OP's actual question:

Macs are not without their competitors, and they are not necessarily the "best" units available. For graphics for instance, one could always go and get a workstation laptop. You'll pay even more than you do for some Macs, but your performance in the higher end 3D applications (eg. Maya) will be far superior to what you can get on any consumer laptop, which a mac essentially is. That comes down to specialized hardware, like Firepro/Quadro GPUs which you aren't finding in an off-the-shelf laptop. Those are cards that suck at gaming but if you're someone like a Pixar animator, thats what you take on a lunch break.

In the consumer space I don't think they're the best, but they are compelling if you get around the basic fact that they are comparably more expensive both to purchase and to maintain and repair. Unibody aluminum/aluminium (your pick) and proprietary screw heads for instance, complicate some of the repair work. Advantage though is this body holds up very well to normal wear and tear, with great hinges, scuff resistance, cooling, and the magsafe charger eliminates about 30% of your risk of repair. The charger port is a big trouble spot on the average laptop for damage.

As for OSX it's not my cup of tea but it lends itself to being fairly straightforward, and I do like the finder/spotlight search functionality, but it has a glaring complaint from me and thats the lack of touch. You do have a wide range of trackpad gestures available but at first glance these can seem just as confusing as windows touch controls. I'm also not a fan of the window controls or the lack of Snap which I grew very accustom to. It does integrate some nice "Apple Ecosystem" features of course, like iMessage, iCloud, AirPlay, etc. so thats something to consider if those features are important to you. I do own an iPhone and I could see the nicety in responding to texts from my computer but it's not worth it to me to go out and change my platform over.

At the end of the day they're very nice and I'm not going to judge people for having one but I don't feel that its a purchase for everyone. I'm also not a big fan of the dent in your compatibilities. That is, having to look for peripherals and software that work with Mac. That usually means paying more money for the same mouse that is colored white. Then there are the adapters. Apple loves adapters and they love selling them. MBP requires a Thunderbolt to VGA or DVI adapter to plug into your typical monitor. Or you have to find one which sports HDMI, which narrows the field a smidge.

Whats so good about Mac laptops? They're very stylish, built well, and operate well. Whats not so good? Compatibility, adapters, and cost:performance ratio.

Overheal

Torqay wrote: »

The one thing, PC users can do that Mac users obviously can't:

STFU

You just cannot reason with fanatics because for them it is no longer a computer, it is a social movement.

The World Takes a Sip of Apple's Kool-Aid

gadetra wrote: »

Mac's last longer in my experience. I have the old plastic white mac, it's 7 years old, and running as good now as it did when I got it. None of the PC's my friends bought at the same time are still going. I used to use if for Final Cut Pro and Photoshop a lot and it never crashed on me. Time Machine is incredibly handy too. I find them more robust and instinctual to use. There are only ever 3 options: basically 'yes, no cancel/variations of. On a PC there are far more options which freak me out! They make sense to my arty brain. My programmer/developer ex couldn't stand them so different strokes for different folks I suppose!

Depends on how you treat them. I have a DV6500t from HP still going strong. Centrino Duo baby! And its been dropped, had its screen and motherboard swapped out (that all happened year 1), and the ram and wireless card upgraded for ****s and giggles to 4GB and N300. Last week I considered putting an SSD in there. Its already been upgraded to windows 7. Its 6 years old, an SSD will easily get it to 10. That 8400M GS can play Crisis as well on low settings. Proud of it.

jester77 wrote: »

Battery life is much better, you can get almost a day of use using osx on a single charge. Windows doesn't come close when used on the same machine.

I want to say this is another subjective argument but the judges say this one is true:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/169055-why-do-windows-pcs-have-such-terrible-battery-life-compared-to-mac-and-ios




Now these are tablet benchmarks but still, at 11 and 14 hours I can't think of any windows laptops with that life.

stimpson

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/back-up-your-computer-with-windows-8-file-history.html

"Not only does File History work in emergencies, but it also enables you to compare current files with versions you created just hours before. It lets you revive better versions of files that you've changed for the worse."

FH only works on your libraries. TM works on your whole machine.

sure you can. But i wouldn't recommend not having it on Mac either. There are still viruses out there for OSX.

Never had a problem in 10 years of Mac ownership. I've never met anyone who has had a virus on their mac

While I don't bother, isn't this essentially what a batch file and the task scheduler are for?

It's a million miles away from a batch file and task scheduler.

Which if windows tried, by including Skype, people would complain and call it bloat :rolleyes:

I'm sure it won't be long before they do. Windows Phone already does.

Are you not familiar with the Microsoft XPS Document Writer? Been doing this for years.

XPS != PDF

All Professional/Ultimate editions of windows have been doing this at least since Vista.

OK - my bad - you have me there. I would argue that OSX's implementation is better (not locked to your user account)

What an incredibly subjective argument. If you wan't to compare a $1200 machine to a $500 one, sure one is going to hang while under the same workload. You make it sound as if I can't spec a much more powerful laptop for the same cost as a MBP and stop it from hanging. My desktop hasn't had a real hangup since the last time I had the file indexer running, at initial setup. Its really hard to hang a machine with 6 processor cores and an SSD.

I have a quad core 2.66 GHz machine in work running Windows 8. Switching from say, IE with 10 tabs open to Word and the hard drive will go mad as it swaps stuff out to disk and takes 5-10 seconds to complete. I do it at home on my 2009 2GHz Core2duo MacBook and there is no fuss - it just switches. Maybe I do need a 6 core SSD monster for the same performance.

looking_around

bobjohn82 wrote: »

I am not an apple fan boy at all - I don't like the iPhone one bit, but when it comes to the MacBook, I personally think it's way ahead. My overall experience is it just feels faster. When it boots you can use it instantly, unlike windows where you have to spend 3 minutes watching the desktop in that pretend ready state. I have a decent spec windows laptop too (HP dv7) and the comparison is night and day. After 18 months the battery is dead and it has to be plugged in all the time. Everything is laggy. On the mac when you start a program it starts instantly. It's just ready and you can start working. I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that but I am a software developer and I have never had any performance issues. The MacBook Pro I have is about 4 years old too. I never got that long out of a windows machine.

Just to be the other side of the coin.

My partner has a macbook. Short of 2 years, the battery was all but dead. So..mute point.
Battery longevity is generally based on how long you leave it plugged in to the charger.
__

On the mac vs PC
__
I'd love a macbook Air for travelling and writing work. They have a robust casing, with a nice smooth interface. Easy switching from program to program.
Mind you for 300 quid less, I could get similar elsewhere with win8.

For gaming, and any true graphic intense programs. Windows wins all the way.
There's more compatibility for windows too. And that in itself makes things easier.

Overheal

stimpson wrote: »

FH only works on your libraries. TM works on your whole machine.

forgive me but I don't appreciate the distinction. My files are what I am concerned with. A driver? I can rollback a driver. I can perform a system restore. I can even Refresh the whole OS with my files in place.

Never had a problem in 10 years of Mac ownership. I've never met anyone who has had a virus on their mac

Work a repair desk then. They're out there. You are certainly less likely to encounter a problem with malware on a Mac, but that white glowing logo isn't a license to be stupid.

I'm sure it won't be long before they do. Windows Phone already does.

And frankly I wouldn't mind? They already tie Skype into your live account, and your Office 365 subscription. I'm wondering how long before they introduce a bundle-subscription for 365/XBL/Skype/XBMusic (But my God, have tried Spotify?)

XPS != PDF

True enough. PDFs would be more atypical. For most uses they're functionally the same PDFs do live up to the portability claim.

I have a quad core 2.66 GHz machine in work running Windows 8. Switching from say, IE with 10 tabs open to Word and the hard drive will go mad as it swaps stuff out to disk and takes 5-10 seconds to complete. I do it at home on my 2009 2GHz Core2duo MacBook and there is no fuss - it just switches. Maybe I do need a 6 core SSD monster for the same performance.

Interesting. Memory problem on the work machine? Check your performance tab in Task Manager, it should let you know exactly what your RAM anatomy is (in-use/read-write/prefecth/etc). I don't even have that problem on the Surface Pro and this thing in terms of CPU power is an i5 1.7ghz ULV. On all my machines though I've never encountered any big problems launching the office suite, in fact it on average takes about 2-3 seconds to go from launch command to splash to full program. When was the last time you did maintenance on the work machine, or is it done by IT? Could be the disk is fragmented too.

In truth our own personal-use machines get better TLC than other devices. Even machines I own which haven't been turned on in a while run like crap. Machines need uptime to perform their maintenance cycles.

mathepac

looking_around wrote: »

... So..mute point. ....

or maybe deaf to all arguments. :rolleyes:

Overheal

mathepac wrote: »

or maybe deaf to all arguments. :rolleyes:

stimpson

Overheal wrote: »

forgive me but I don't appreciate the distinction. My files are what I am concerned with. A driver? I can rollback a driver. I can perform a system restore. I can even Refresh the whole OS with my files in place.

That's fine if you only keep your files in your user folder. Unfortunately for me, I can't do that due to the way I work. It's a stupid limitation anyway.

Work a repair desk then. They're out there. You are certainly less likely to encounter a problem with malware on a Mac, but that white glowing logo isn't a license to be stupid.

The instances of malware on OSX is vanishingly small compared to Windows. It's built on inherently more secure foundations and is less of a target for hackers. I remember one exploit coming to light last year and it was quickly patched.

True enough. PDFs would be more atypical. For most uses they're functionally the same PDFs do live up to the portability claim.

Except if you try to open them on a non Windows platform

Interesting. Memory problem on the work machine? Check your performance tab in Task Manager, it should let you know exactly what your RAM anatomy is (in-use/read-write/prefecth/etc). I don't even have that problem on the Surface Pro and this thing in terms of CPU power is an i5 1.7ghz ULV. On all my machines though I've never encountered any big problems launching the office suite, in fact it on average takes about 2-3 seconds to go from launch command to splash to full program. When was the last time you did maintenance on the work machine, or is it done by IT? Could be the disk is fragmented too.

Both have 4GB of RAM, 0% fragmentation. RAM usage on my PC is currently 3.1GB in use, 171 MB free. I would have plenty of apps open on both machines. I think OSX memory management is just superior.

DaithiMC

stimpson wrote: »

What work can you do that you can't on OSX?

I have Macs and windows boxes at home and I have no problem sharing between them. You obviously haven't used a Mac in some time.

Drag and drop files from a NAS drive, from the same location, on to a windows machine or Android device. The one thing above all that Apple don't do well is share, it is effectively a closed loop system that is designed to bring customers to it by buying a plurality of Apple devices. If you buy an iPad, iPhone, iBook you will no doubt be in Nirvana as all this works seamlessly and well. Try to use multiple device from multiple vendors and it all starts to fall apart. I guess you can use Dropbox or email, etc. but to get a file from a fileserver to your iPad and Android device is not simple.

I love their products, the way they work, the way they look but because I like to dabble in different technologies I prefer to remain outside their ecosystem or, I guess, their iSystem. In short, I suppose, I hate their business model.