Why is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

hotbabe1992

Immigration from Africa would result in the opposite of life support with food bags. They would be able to get relatively well paid jobs and be able to fund their own food.

You see im arguing that Africans or even other nationalities who face famine etc from overfarming and deforestation of their lands..Shouldnt be artificially propped up and kept alive,if some are meant to die,some are meant to die,let nature take its course.

Humanitarianism is out of control,we are propping up human beings that are maybe not supposed to have meant to have lived in the first place.

Why do we insist on propping them up.We refer to certain species of animals as a pest when the truth is human beings are the biggest pest,we far outnumber any species of animal,and are stretching our natural enviornmental resouces to its limit.

As david attenbourough said its barmy to keep feeding them with bags of flour,and went on to say humans are the scourge of this earth.And i have to agree with him on that.

Touching on the issue of overpopulation,because we insist on feeding them africans are set to double their population by 2050 by 2.4 billion people.

That is a large chunk of the earths population.How do you propose we feed these extra people and provide them sanitation and cars in sustainable manner.

And please everyone before jumping all over what i say..Try not to call me a racist. Its just pathetic.

Suryavarman

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You see im arguing that Africans or even other nationalities who face famine etc from overfarming and deforestation of their lands..Shouldnt be artificially propped up and kept alive,if some are meant to die,some are meant to die,let nature take its course.

Humanitarianism is out of control,we are propping up human beings that are maybe not supposed to have meant to have lived in the first place.

Why do we insist on propping them up.We refer to certain species of animals as a pest when the truth is human beings are the biggest pest,we far outnumber any species of animal,and are stretching our natural enviornmental resouces to its limit.

As david attenbourough said its barmy to keep feeding them with bags of flour,and went on to say humans are the scourge of this earth.And i have to agree with him on that.

Touching on the issue of overpopulation,because we insist on feeding them africans are set to double their population by 2050 by 2.4 billion people.

That is a large chunk of the earths population.How do you propose we feed these extra people and provide them sanitation and cars in sustainable manner.

And please everyone before jumping all over what i say..Try not to call me a racist. Its just pathetic.

None of that has anything to do with immigration.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You see im arguing that Africans or even other nationalities who face famine etc from overfarming and deforestation of their lands..Shouldnt be artificially propped up and kept alive,if some are meant to die,some are meant to die,let nature take its course.

Humanitarianism is out of control,we are propping up human beings that are maybe not supposed to have meant to have lived in the first place.

Why do we insist on propping them up.We refer to certain species of animals as a pest when the truth is human beings are the biggest pest,we far outnumber any species of animal,and are stretching our natural enviornmental resouces to its limit.

Social Darwanist approaches have been out of favour for quite some time now.

hotbabe1992

Mass immigration nothing to do with overpopulation which has nothing to do with the destruction of the enviornment.

You see all you humanitarian yes people yes to immigration yes to multiculturalism just do not get the knock on effects whatsoever.

Lets feed the africans to hell with it lets feed them all,and live a gay old happy time.

What could possibly go wrong..Right?

hotbabe1992

Social Darwanist approaches have been out of favour for quite some time now.

What line of thought is in fashion doesnt bother me at all

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

What line of thought is in fashion doesnt bother me at all

Well thankfully most people do not think that allowing other human beings to starve to death because that's what 'nature intended' is a good thing, hence we have things like humanitarian aid. What does any of this have to do with immigration anyway?

hotbabe1992

Surely you can make the connection.

Lets say if a certain species of animal was breeding out of control you would find ways to limit that maybe in a non violent way by not helping them out etc.And im not even talking about the culling that happens to certain species of animal without any question or squeal of dissaproval from a humanitarianist.

If you were to apply this to humans there would be uproar.I see double standards,there is a huge enviornmental issue with overpopulation and we are not tackling it.

Our only true wealth is our enviornment,minerals,forests full of wildlife and so on,trees,water,crop,fertile soil that hasnt been over used and abused.
We are overfarming and cutting down forest to the nth degree,co2 chugging up into the atmosphere and calving of icecaps is happening at an alarming rate.
What has immigration and overpopulation got to do with this - make the connection.

Let half of the eu (and possibly beyond/asylum shopper/hoppers)flood into the UK and ireland,what on earth could possibly go wrong.
For a start public services would be stretched,and we wouldnt be able to cope very well.Just imagine a whole maternity ward clogged up like in the uk,some women in labour in the uk were turned away in a serious condition bc nurses were simply ''too busy''..
Thats just one scenario we might have on our hands,and if someone dies as a result of this,you can be guaranteed there will be a costly court case that the state will have to foot,and it will come out of yours or my pocket,ie joe public.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Let half of the eu (and possibly beyond/asylum shopper/hoppers)flood into the UK and ireland,what on earth could possibly go wrong.
For a start public services would be stretched,and we wouldnt be able to cope very well.Just imagine a whole maternity ward clogged up like in the uk,some women in labour in the uk were turned away in a serious condition bc nurses were simply ''too busy''..
Thats just one scenario we might have on our hands,and if someone dies as a result of this,you can be guaranteed there will be a costly court case that the state will have to foot,and it will come out of yours or my pocket,ie joe public.

Ok, so the 'connection' is some ridiculously implausible hypothetical scenario you have concocted which involves 250 million+ people immigrating to the UK and Ireland.

hotbabe1992

Lets make the connection between overpopulation and immigration.

Lets see you prop up africans that would have never survived off their own merit,and then they emigrate over to the EU countries and survive very well and contribute to the increase in our own populations.

Thier population is set to increase by 2.4 billion in africa as a direct result of our outside interference.

Is that any clearer for you.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Lets make the connection between overpopulation and immigration.

Lets see you prop up africans that would have never survived off their own merit,and then they emigrate over to the EU countries and survive very well and contribute to the increase in our own populations.

Thier population is set to increase by 2.4 billion in africa as a direct result of our outside interference.

Is that any clearer for you.

Yeah you've already made it clear that you think people should be allowed to die if they're not deemed 'fit' enough to survive on their own. Why do you assume that all of those "Africans" who have been kept alive 'artificially' have emigrated, or will emigrate, to EU countries? Do you have some proof, or is this another thought experiment on your part?

hotbabe1992

I have met a lot of people from nigeria and somalia where i live in ennis there is a fairly big nigerian and somalian population,they didnt grow up in the UK or anywhere like that,these guys are straight from nigeria/somalia.

Of course you can make the connection..A lot of somalians wouldnt have survived off their own merit,so yes i can make the connection,these people have been put on life support.And have in turn emigrated to many different countries in and outside the EU.

Now i have no problem with them in terms of race, but in terms of overpopulation i dont think any human should be propped up because of teary eyed humanitarian or make a quick buck charities or race-relations advocators.

We already have ENOUGH human beings on the planet as it is..

Encouraging mass immmigration of those with a high fertility rate is stupid and reckless of course governments only see the euro signs and want more heads to tax.

But do not and refuse to see the long term consequences by way of healthcare/welfare and crime,naturally all these things will increase when a population increases no matter where they are from.

Our enviornment cannot sustain what will be over 10 billion on the planet,how do we propose to feed all those mouths,its just not plausible,some are going to go hungry.

oscarBravo

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Now i have no problem with them in terms of race, but in terms of overpopulation i dont think any human should be propped up because of teary eyed humanitarian...

So if an Irish person gets sick, you'd advocate allowing them to die instead of making medical treatment available to them?

BurnsCarpenter

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Lets make the connection between overpopulation and immigration.

Lets see you prop up africans that would have never survived off their own merit,and then they emigrate over to the EU countries and survive very well and contribute to the increase in our own populations.

Thier population is set to increase by 2.4 billion in africa as a direct result of our outside interference.

Is that any clearer for you.

Well as it stands there is more than enough food to go round for everyone. Maybe we could hold off on the 'let them starve' approach until absolutely necessary? Who knows what might happen in the meantime to thin our numbers a bit - superbugs, supervolcanoes, meteors...

Or maybe we could focus more on bringing third world countries in line with the western world, economically. Birth rate goes down as wealth goes up.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Of course you can make the connection..A lot of somalians wouldnt have survived off their own merit,so yes i can make the connection,these people have been put on life support.And have in turn emigrated to many different countries in and outside the EU.

Of course that has nothing to do with factors like decades of civil war and an almost total collapse of Somalia as a functioning state. Why bother with nuances when you can appeal to crude evolutionary theories in order to justify why certain people 'deserve' to live or die.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Encouraging mass immmigration of those with a high fertility rate is stupid and reckless of course governments only see the euro signs and want more heads to tax..

We do not have mass immigration from Africa. I've pointed this out to you before.

The size of second and third generation immigrant familys generally drop.

The European population is dropping.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/european-birth-rate-declines/

For Reals

It's not wrong to oppose it as long as you know why and why isn't based on complete bollocks.
Its a cliché....a first world country finds itself on its arse due to mismanagement, the powers that be love the in-fighting amongst those who generally had little to do with it and usually have suffered the most:

1) People on welfare, (they don't work?) 2) organised workers/Unions, (they get how much?) 2) Dem blacks, (war torn me hole!).

hotbabe1992

We do not have mass immigration from Africa. I've pointed this out to you before.

The size of second and third generation immigrant familys generally drop.

The European population is dropping.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/european...rate-declines/

While the european population may be decreasing ie smaller birth rates,and older pregnancies..
The immigration population is on the increase,and immigration is increasing into the uk by way of bulgarians and romanians,its not decreaasing,so no matter how you try to discount it or argue it down its just not working.

It maybe hard to become an immigrant in ireland,but that doesnt deter asylum seekers who hop from country to country by way of entering the eu and deliberately turn up in ireland and the uk.

The uk currently has 63 million people in it,and thats not counting the illegals and those who generally wont fill out the forms for fear of being caught.

oscarBravo

You might answer my question.

hotbabe1992

About healthcare for people in ireland,i have no problem with that,i dont see it as artificially propping them up.

As long as they can sustainably feed themselves and survive off their own merit in general i dont see the problem.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

About healthcare for people in ireland,i have no problem with that,i dont see it as artificially propping them up.

As long as they can sustainably feed themselves and survive off their own merit in general i dont see the problem.

You keep saying this but it's not entirely clear that you actually realise that there are often structural factors which inhibit peoples' ability to obtain food, shelter or whatever - the example of Somalia earlier is one instance where you seem oblivious to the fact that not every starving person is in that state because that's how nature wants it or because they are incapable of survival on their own.

Would you agree with letting homeless Irish (or British as you seem to mention the UK a lot) people starve to death?

hotbabe1992

Dont get me wrong i have given to bothar(you know sending animals over by way of plane/boat,more co2 lol,to these african places),and i have give to animal shelters and also the capuchin brothers.

Yes it is propping people up,and im personally debating with myself will i give to any charity next year bar the animals,not just in light of the CRC charity top up scandal,and i have worked in charities,and some of the execs driving around in their mercs turning up at any hour they please and using the charity bank account as their own personal account,has really got me thinking - is it really all worth it???

Here we are propping up people ,that do not have the sense to survive off their own merit,should we be propping up yet more human beings,when there are too many of them in the first place.

Can you not agree that human beings have overproportionately infested this planet more than any species of animal on this earth.

And we are propping up more of them???

If this was a conversation about animals a lot of people would agree.

This is the double standard here.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

While the european population may be decreasing ie smaller birth rates,and older pregnancies..
The immigration population is on the increase,and immigration is increasing into the uk by way of bulgarians and romanians,its not decreaasing,so no matter how you try to discount it or argue it down its just not working.
.

The dread wave of Bulgarians and Romanians hasn't occurred yet. They are Europeans, btw.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

It maybe hard to become an immigrant in ireland,but that doesnt deter asylum seekers who hop from country to country by way of entering the eu and deliberately turn up in ireland and the uk..

It would be best if your read this, before going down that path.....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59465073&postcount=1

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Can you not agree that human beings have overproportionately infested this planet more than any species of animal on this earth.

And we are propping up more of them???..

Contraception. You may have heard of it.

hotbabe1992

The dread wave of Bulgarians and Romanians hasn't occurred yet. They are Europeans, btw.

Where did i say they werent europeans,i know they are europeans duh!

oscarBravo

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

About healthcare for people in ireland,i have no problem with that,i dont see it as artificially propping them up.

You don't see medical care as artificially propping people up, but you do see feeding people as artificially propping them up?

If we're at the point where you're inventing definitions in a futile attempt to avoid making your arguments look ridiculous, well...

As long as they can sustainably feed themselves and survive off their own merit in general i dont see the problem.

So it's OK to give granny medical treatment as long as she performs her own heart surgery? After all, we wouldn't want her surviving off someone else's "merit" (whatever that means).

hotbabe1992

It would be best if your read this, before going down that path.....

Why is it the come all the way to ireland,whether they arrive in the so called first safe country or not,why is it they travel so long to come to ireland.Surely its not for our shamrocks and guiness is it ?

hotbabe1992

So it's OK to give granny medical treatment as long as she performs her own heart surgery? After all, we wouldn't want her surviving off someone else's "merit" (whatever that means).

If people show a capability to survive they should have healthcare those who cannot make strides to survive should be cut loose,thats my argument.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

If people show a capability to survive they should have healthcare those who cannot make strides to survive should be cut loose,thats my argument.

Even if that healthcare is what gives them the ability to survive? Can you really not see the problem with what you are saying?

oscarBravo

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

If people show a capability to survive they should have healthcare those who cannot make strides to survive should be cut loose,thats my argument.

Your argument is nothing other than barely disguised racism. You can deny it all you want - worse still, you can start wailing about being oppressed by being called on your racism - but that doesn't make your argument any less intrinsically racist.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Why is it the come all the way to ireland,whether they arrive in the so called first safe country or not,why is it they travel so long to come to ireland.Surely its not for our shamrocks and guiness is it ?

Why not? They're free to apply at whatever country they choose. As signatories of the Geneva convention we're obligated to give them a hearing.

hotbabe1992

Your argument is nothing other than barely disguised racism. You can deny it all you want - worse still, you can start wailing about being oppressed by being called on your racism - but that doesn't make your argument any less intrinsically racist.

No,none of what i pointed out was racist,where did i mention the colour of skin or race,i said i had no problems with africans and have met quite a few in the town im from.

The insinuations of racist were clearly all over this thread,and as kevin myers has previously said it is impossible to have a rational logical debate/discussion without being hysterically branded a racist.

So you have proven my point.