Why is it wrong to oppose mass immigration?

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

But they are not turned away either - they have to live on something,hardly fresh air.:

They cannot arrive and claim any welfare benefits. Therefore they are turned away.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Oh really have a good read over this thread and read between the lines carefully there are accusations of racism everywhere.:

Generally, that's as useful as relying on relations for sources of information.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I dont see any borders in ireland and all i see is lax controls on immigration,anybody can hop in and make a joke of the system..:

Vague hysteria with no basis in fact.

Hotbabe1992 wrote:

Recently a case of TB and leprosy broke out,polio is a huge issue in
afghanistan and africa.

We are letting in people who might even have
these health issues,healtcare tourism is also a huge problem in the uk,people coming in with all sorts of nasties.

We do not have unrestricted movement with Afghanistan or the various states in Africa. The case of leprosy was a man from Brazil who suffered a resurgence of the disease despite being clear for many years. He was not here as a 'healthcare tourist'.

Hotbabe1992 wrote:

There are health implications,health and safetey hazards,there was a shipment of foreign goods that came in unchecked ,because of the freedom of movement law in the EU, as a result a dangerous african spider came in that was highly poisinous,luckily by chance it was spotted,this happened in cork.

Please provide a source for this.

Nodin

Crimsonforce wrote: »

anyone who hasn't seen this..
I think the girl is very open minded..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgKMI1wV0ps

have a look starting at 7.45 min.

couldn't believe it..

You've some point?

hotbabe1992

They cannot arrive and claim any welfare benefits. Therefore they are turned away.

Some of them are here ,and the DO get in - sure look at mosney.

They are now complaining about the services - yes they live on 19 a week,but they get free bed food and board for free and dont have to pay a penny and the conditions musnt be too bad as they are having families there too.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Some of them are here ,and the DO get in - sure look at mosney.

They are now complaining about the services - yes they live on 19 a week,but they get free bed food and board for free and dont have to pay a penny and the conditions musnt be too bad as they are having families there too.

Those aren't immigrants. Do you understand the difference between an asylum seeker and an immigrant?

Many irish lived in abysmal conditions for many centuries and not only had families, but famously rather large ones, so I don't see what you're trying to get at there.

You might summarise what Myers is saying and it's relevance towards this thread....

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Some of them are here ,and the DO get in - sure look at mosney.

Just because they are in the direct provision system does not mean they have 'got in' - the majority of asylum applications are rejected here.

They are now complaining about the services - yes they live on 19 a week,but they get free bed food and board for free and dont have to pay a penny and the conditions musnt be too bad as they are having families there too.

You really need to inform yourself about the conditions in many of these centres, and on immigration in general.

old hippy

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I dont see any borders in ireland and all i see is lax controls on immigration,anybody can hop in and make a joke of the system.

This is why we shouldn't allow mass immigration,there is just not enough manpower to check everyone that comes in unannounced.

Recently a case of TB and leprosy broke out,polio is a huge issue in afghanistan and africa.

We are letting in people who might even have these health issues,healtcare tourism is also a huge problem in the uk,people coming in with all sorts of nasties.

To say im xenophobic and or racist,bigot etc, because of this is bordering on hysterical.

You're implying that immigrants to these shores are taking the system for a ride and bringing diseases with them. That kind of bigotry is so old it's carbon dated.

Crimsonforce

Nodin wrote: »

You've some point?

Obviously you didn't watch it

hotbabe1992

Those aren't immigrants. Do you understand the difference between an asylum seeker and an immigrant?

Don't those asylum seekers eventually become immigrants?

Pro Hoc Vice

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Some of them are here ,and the DO get in - sure look at mosney.

They are now complaining about the services - yes they live on 19 a week,but they get free bed food and board for free and dont have to pay a penny and the conditions musnt be too bad as they are having families there too.

Asylum and mass immigration are two very different things. The vast majority of asylum seekers are refused any type of legal residency. Ireland like any country has obligations under the UN convention on refugees. Applications have dropped from over 12,000 a year in mid 2000's to less than 900 a year and dropping.

There is no automatic right of residency for any person outside EU. In fact it's very difficult for most people to legally enter and reside in ireland.

Frank Grimes

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Don't those asylum seekers eventually become immigrants?

Most of them don't; plus they are either given refugee status or leave to remain - they don't "become immigrants".

Nodin

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Obviously you didn't watch it

What was the point you were trying to make?

hotbabe1992

You're implying that immigrants to these shores are taking the system for a ride and bringing diseases with them. That kind of bigotry is so old it's carbon dated.

Hysterical old hippy why am i not suprised,it has turned into a slur match calling me a racist bigot.

The reason i say that people from certain parts of the world might bring diseases with them is because there are some parts of africa where the people REFUSE to take the anti polio vaccine because its the whitemans potion,its the devils potion,there are even groups like boko haram who stop people from taking anti polio vaccines.

This is why i state that some people may come in with some diseases as invariably healthcare in some of these countries is very very poor or even non existant.

Calling me a bigot or racist is lazy. You cannot even try to attempt to see the reasoning as to why i might say this..Lazy and hysterical..

Suryavarman

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

No im not saying leave the EU im saying change the existing laws in place in the EU,because it is making a mockery of our system.

There are health implications,health and safetey hazards,there was a shipment of foreign goods that came in unchecked ,because of the freedom of movement law in the EU, as a result a dangerous african spider came in that was highly poisinous,luckily by chance it was spotted,this happened in cork.

In the UK,a woman opened a banana and a whole load of brazilian highly poisionous again(could kill a human),popped out of the banana,she had to ring the police to get on and be referred to the relevant authorities.

This is not just an immigration issue,this is an issue where goods are also not being checked throughly,we need a system in place like border control austrailia.

Otherwise we will have a catastrophy on our hands either a biological one or whatever.

It is a problem and to just insinuate and accuse people of xenophobia again and again and again in your response is just not on.

People should have a right to know who or what is coming into the country and what the implications are.

So because something bad nearly happened in a couple of rare cases unconnected to immigration we have to ban/place limits on immigration?

And I'm the hysterical one here?

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Okay lets say you tweak the healthcare system and employ more nurses and more doctors - that money has to come from somewhere.

As we are in ireland we are cutting the healthcare facilities,so what you propose is to bring in more immigrants????

How stupid is that?

Believe it or not immigrants do pay taxes. Taxes that fund healthcare. Immigrants also tend to be younger and therefore healthier so they tend not to use healthcare as much as the average person. It is also entirely possible to ask them to pay for their healthcare out of pocket or through insurance.

Where did i say ze foreigners shouldnt use the internet?The insintuations like i have stated before are all over this thread.

Thats why i think this whole immigration argument is rigid,one cannot be seen to oppose immigration without being slandered a racist.

A dangerous label to give someone and highly irresponsible.A lazy slur at that.As Kevin Myers has said in an interivew with Pat Kenny,You cannot have an argument about immigration and oppose immigration without being slandered a racist.

You said the environment should be placed above all else. That means we wouldn't have any economic progress and would therefore still live in caves. That would imply that you don't want people to use the internet but your opposition to immigration would suggest that you are particularly opposed to foreigners having the finer things in life such as the internet.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Some of them are here ,and the DO get in - sure look at mosney.

They are now complaining about the services - yes they live on 19 a week,but they get free bed food and board for free and dont have to pay a penny and the conditions musnt be too bad as they are having families there too.

Those are asylum seekers. The reason they receive welfare from the state is because they haven't been granted legal access to the country. In other words, the only reason they receive state welfare is because of people like you opposing open borders.

Pro Hoc Vice

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Don't those asylum seekers eventually become immigrants?

No the vast majority are refused Asylum, subsidiary protection or humanitarian leave and get a deportation order. Because of the rubbish multi layered system it can take years to get a deportation order.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Hysterical (.....)very poor or even non existant.

......but we are vaccinated against it....there is no free movement between African states and here.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

There are health implications,health and safetey hazards,there was a shipment of
foreign goods that came in unchecked ,because of the freedom of movement law in the EU, as a result a dangerous african spider came in that was highly
poisinous,luckily by chance it was spotted,this happened in cork.

For the second time, could you please provide a source for this?

Could you summarise the content of the Myers video and explain it's relevance to this thread please?

old hippy

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Hysterical old hippy why am i not suprised,it has turned into a slur match calling me a racist bigot.

The reason i say that people from certain parts of the world might bring diseases with them is because there are some parts of africa where the people REFUSE to take the anti polio vaccine because its the whitemans potion,its the devils potion,there are even groups like boko haram who stop people from taking anti polio vaccines.

This is why i state that some people may come in with some diseases as invariably healthcare in some of these countries is very very poor or even non existant.

Calling me a bigot or racist is lazy. You cannot even try to attempt to see the reasoning as to why i might say this..Lazy and hysterical..

Yes, I'm clearly hysterical.... with laughter at your scaremongering old hat.

Which parts of Africa in particular?

hotbabe1992

.....but we are vaccinated against it....there is no free movement between African states and here.

....But eventually they end up here.Yet to talk about the health implications of people who migrate from countries with poor healthcare service,is a no no,you might get called a racist

hotbabe1992

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOaq3KPd1UQ

To surmise about what myers was saying,he is basically said that cultural differences that will come to ireland and possibly dominate ireland is not nessecarily a positive thing.

He has also said it is not possible in todays climate to have a rational discussion on immigration without being called a racist.Which i totally agree with him on that.

The people who havent opened their minds are the pro immigration crowd as far as i can see.Nothing can be said without the insinuation of being a bigot or racist.

Scofflaw

Crimsonforce, hotbabe1992, there's a long-standing rule in the Politics forum that "argument by Youtube" is not acceptable.

If you're going to link to a video, then for those who cannot or will not watch the video, you must include in the post a summary of the video or the vitally important part people have to watch, plus your own view of why it's important.

Please try to remember that you have to fit in with local rules and culture.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Pro Hoc Vice

Again I will say, will people educate themselves on immigration in Ireland. The facts are there. There is plenty of reforms that can be made of real issues and problems. People making stupid, unfounded and down right incorrect arguments only make themselves and their position look foolish.

old hippy

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOaq3KPd1UQ

To surmise about what myers was saying,he is basically said that cultural differences that will come to ireland and possibly dominate ireland is not nessecarily a positive thing.

Tbf, any culture in the world stands head and shoulders above the colonel's myopic, nasty little viewpoint.

So, let's clarify - it's not just the diseases that foreigners bring in, it's those strange alien cultures that alarm you?

hotbabe1992

So, let's clarify - it's not just the diseases that foreigners bring in, it's those strange alien cultures that alarm you?

You are reading the whole thing wrong tbh,listen multiculturalism which comes as part and parcel of immigration is fine if the numbers are small and manageable.

Where its not fine is when the numbers increase that will dominate the nation,do you refuse to see the problem with that?

And furthermore all this encouraging mass immigration,putting africans on life support with food bags as david attenborough argued is mad,human beings are the biggest infestation on the planet,over using and abusing resources to breaking point.
Overfarming lands,deforestation,co2 pumping up into the atmosphere,cheap labour,all of this is ruining our real economy our enviornment.

You would think we would learn by now.

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

....But eventually they end up here.Yet to talk about the health implications of people who migrate from countries with poor healthcare service,is a no no,you might get called a racist

And again, vague nonsense that gives no numbers, no exact details...nada.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

....
To surmise about what myers was saying,he is basically said that cultural differences that will come to ireland and possibly dominate ireland is not nessecarily a positive thing.

"cultural differences" with who?

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

He has also said it is not possible in todays climate to have a rational discussion on immigration without being called a racist.Which i totally agree
with him on that.

Mr Myers once remarked on the number of non-white faces in London, and how they had no idea of the 'sacrifices' Britain had made (WW1 and II). To take but one example - from WW1, India suffered 74,000 dead and in WWII 86,000. I wouldn't take him as some uninvolved source of fact.

old hippy

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You are reading the whole thing wrong tbh,listen multiculturalism which comes as part and parcel of immigration is fine if the numbers are small and manageable.

Where its not fine is when the numbers increase that will dominate the nation,do you refuse to see the problem with that?

And furthermore all this encouraging mass immigration,putting africans on life support with food bags as david attenborough argued is mad,human beings are the biggest infestation on the planet,over using and abusing resources to breaking point.
Overfarming lands,deforestation,co2 pumping up into the atmosphere,cheap labour,all of this is ruining our real economy our enviornment.

You would think we would learn by now.

Are you advocating a mass cull or something? If so, you should be happy that we'll be dominated by those disease carrying foreigners. Might help to reduce the numbers of the human infestation...

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You are reading the whole thing wrong tbh,listen multiculturalism which comes as part and parcel of immigration is fine if the numbers are small and manageable.

Where its not fine is when the numbers increase that will dominate the nation,do you refuse to see the problem with that?

And furthermore all this encouraging mass immigration,putting africans on life support with food bags as david attenborough argued is mad,human beings are the biggest infestation on the planet,over using and abusing resources to breaking point.
Overfarming lands,deforestation,co2 pumping up into the atmosphere,cheap labour,all of this is ruining our real economy our enviornment.

You would think we would learn by now.

I'm unsure what that's to do with the thread.....

I'm still waiting for a source for that Cork story.

hotbabe1992

Google it knock yourself out nodin and happy hunting.

Whether its online or not i dont know i havent even checked but i saw as story on it in the local herald back in the 1990's,i think it was '94 or '94 not sure.

You should look up the newspaper archives also.

There was another story i read recently in a womans magazine i think it was bella or take a break,anyway she had a pack of banana's and a group of highly toxic spiders popped out,she had to ring the police and get referred to the relevant authorities.

Surely if there is freedom of movement of goods without restriction or through checking surely you can envision problems like this may occur.

hotbabe1992

Anyway heres on banana story ... Couldnt find the cork one online but it did happen i dont give a shit if you refuse to believe it..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487042/Mother-finds-deadly-Brazilian-spiders-nest-banana.html

Nodin

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Google it knock yourself out nodin and happy hunting.

Whether its online or not i dont know i havent even checked but i saw as story on it in the local herald back in the 1990's,i think it was '94 or '94 not sure.

You should look up the newspaper archives also.

There was another story i read recently in a womans magazine i think it was bella or take a break,anyway she had a pack of banana's and a group of highly toxic spiders popped out,she had to ring the police and get referred to the relevant authorities.

Surely if there is freedom of movement of goods without restriction or through checking surely you can envision problems like this may occur.

There's no mention in the article of lack of restrictions.....

old hippy

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Google it knock yourself out nodin and happy hunting.

Whether its online or not i dont know i havent even checked but i saw as story on it in the local herald back in the 1990's,i think it was '94 or '94 not sure.

You should look up the newspaper archives also.

There was another story i read recently in a womans magazine i think it was bella or take a break,anyway she had a pack of banana's and a group of highly toxic spiders popped out,she had to ring the police and get referred to the relevant authorities.

Surely if there is freedom of movement of goods without restriction or through checking surely you can envision problems like this may occur.

Isn't the onus on you to back your story up, not Nodin?

And Bella & Take a Break you say? Always reliable sources for informed news and current affairs...

Suryavarman

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

....But eventually they end up here.Yet to talk about the health implications of people who migrate from countries with poor healthcare service,is a no no,you might get called a racist

That's an argument against leaving in unhealthy people. Just because somebody comes from a country with a poor healthcare system doesn't mean that they have poor health.

Your solution to the problem is akin to banning all Toyotas because some Toyota models had safety flaws a couple of years ago.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOaq3KPd1UQ

To surmise about what myers was saying,he is basically said that cultural differences that will come to ireland and possibly dominate ireland is not nessecarily a positive thing.

He has also said it is not possible in todays climate to have a rational discussion on immigration without being called a racist.Which i totally agree with him on that.

The people who havent opened their minds are the pro immigration crowd as far as i can see.Nothing can be said without the insinuation of being a bigot or racist.

It is also not possible to have a rational discussion on immigration when people in favour of immigration restrictions paint all potential immigrants as disease infested.

I could easily argue that you haven't opened your mind on the matter. Your only solution to any potential negative consequences of immigration is to ban immigration. Even though there is a wide variety of alternative more humane solutions available such as the ones listed in the Bryan Caplan article I posted earlier in the thread.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

You are reading the whole thing wrong tbh,listen multiculturalism which comes as part and parcel of immigration is fine if the numbers are small and manageable.

Where its not fine is when the numbers increase that will dominate the nation,do you refuse to see the problem with that?

Why is there a problem with a foreign culture dominating the nation? It can be argued that American and British culture are far more dominant in Ireland than Irish culture is. Should we therefore greatly reduce immigration from those countries?

Also, just because one culture is becoming more common doesn't mean others are floundering. It is entirely possible for somebody to move to Ireland in order to experience Irish culture. This makes Irish culture stronger.

And furthermore all this encouraging mass immigration,putting africans on life support with food bags as david attenborough argued is mad,human beings are the biggest infestation on the planet,over using and abusing resources to breaking point.
Overfarming lands,deforestation,co2 pumping up into the atmosphere,cheap labour,all of this is ruining our real economy our enviornment.

You would think we would learn by now.

Immigration from Africa would result in the opposite of life support with food bags. They would be able to get relatively well paid jobs and be able to fund their own food.