Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

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Donegalroyal wrote: »

Really disappointing day, reminded me a lot of Monaghan in 2013 where we just looked stunned at the levels of intensity the opposition brought. Cavan played like a team possessed and we just did not match their aggression.

Hard to know where this team goes from here, really talented bunch, but, just seem to lack that edge and shy away when teams get in their faces. Don't think a new manager is necessarily the answer to that.

Reminded me very much of that game as well. Out fought and out thought.

Nidgeweasel

The Monaghan game was a different kettle of fish for me. We were under prepared and carrying a lot of injuries. If you listen to the comments from the group that winter they were saying they were running on fumes and it was only when they took stock of where they were at that they realised how bad the situation in 2013 was. Remedied it in 2014 (club championship called off etc) and regained the Ulster sfc and got to an all Ireland final. That Monaghan team were several notches above yesterday’s opposition too and had far more quality and far more about them.

Yesterday was far worse than 2013. It was almost as if they’d watched Dublin on Saturday and couldn’t have be bothered with it. All the talk from the players was about the hurt from castlebar and carrying that and making sure they got to a semi final. Yet when it came to it, it was like Cavan were mad for it, and Donegal went ‘meh’.

It is natural that a team like Cavan are going to have serious hunger (And natural that we wouldn’t be as chaotic as them as we have more quality and experience) but it’s knock out football, it’s not like it should have been a shock to anyone and even with that, it’s not like Donegal didn’t have enough of the ball or the quality on the pitch to win that game. Don’t have the stomach to watch the game back but I’d imagine in terms of chances created both teams were broadly the same and we got far more possession from our restarts. The manner in which they seemingly just weren’t up for it, and the way they then just fell away from any coherent way of playing was very alarming and there is obviously something else going on there that would concern me greatly.

The word I’ve been hearing a lot today from various quarters is ‘embarrassing’. It has been a long time since that was levelled at a Donegal team and it hasn’t been nice hearing such things. I hope things settle down as that negativity always filters down into the players and the group and a group can be compromised.

Local Media has been quiet enough so far nationally the knives are being sharpened. You can tell this one stings in Donegal though and there will be a fall out to come. Ironically that there may be less of a break might prove to be a bad thing.

Really struggling to see where this group goes from here, that is no all Ireland semi final appearance post Jim McGuinness. At least we knocked Tyrone out anyway. Roll on the county final.....

doc_17

When’s the last time PMB had a good game for us?

blahfckingblah

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Don’t think it is.

Cavan were completely the better team and thoroughly deserved to win and fair play to them. Great for a county to bridge such a long gap.

Doesn’t change that they are a division 3 team and in my
opinion they are no great shakes (as will be proven in the next few years). Calamitous level of performance from Donegal. The joys of Knock out football.

You've clearly calmed down. While I agree Cavan probably aren't the ones to beat dublin they had the right stuff on the day to pull in wins against Donegal and down and Antrim and Monaghan.

You might call them a third division team but I prefer to call them Ulster champions.

Nidgeweasel

doc_17 wrote: »

When’s the last time PMB had a good game for us?

The first 35 minutes of the Fermanagh game in 2018. In fairness to Paddy, he’s just not been able to get a clear run at it and that cruciate was a very cruel blow at the time for a player who was playing some of his best stuff.

MactheKnife90

Isn't it nice to be the hot favourites to do three in a row turned gracious runners up in an Ulster Final rather than getting hammered out the gate by Armagh.

Let's not over react here lads. We have had some great days over the last 10 years. We had no God given right to go out and beat Cavan yesterday. We had an off day against a team at 110%.

Couldn't be happier for them a great football county who had their homework done.

It's a steep learning curve our young boys are on. I think they'll ride it out just fine. Roll on 2021.

Tír Chonaill go Brách

Redsoxfan

I'm probably going to echo a lot of what Nidgeweasel has said already, but anyway.

There were some similarities with Monaghan in 2013. But, that team was running on fumes and with good cause. They had won an All Ireland after years of underachievement and earned the right to have a down year. The warning signs were there leading up to that game and we were equally flat in the next 2 games. And, Monaghan went on to become a consistently competitive team for the next 5 years. Maybe Cavan will follow a similar path. Who knows.

And I can rationalise the 2018 defeat in Ballybofey and last years exit in Castlebar. Those were all very even games before a ball was thrown in as far as I was concerned. We had home advantage in 'fortress' Ballybofey in 2018 and were leading late in the game. That's why it was disappointing to lose. But, it wasn't a huge surprise and it was an encouraging first year after 3 years of ****e. Winning that game would also have given us a great shot at the All Ireland Final. Last year in Castlebar, the performance wasn't great, but it was a damp day, we had some injuries and we had no right to expect to win.

But the hope was that we would be able to build on those 2 defeats. Winning the first game in Ballybofey suggested we were able to win a tight game against a team that would be around our level. We followed that up with a fairly facile win over an average Armagh team, but there was no sign of complacency.

Yesterday, we were poor in all aspects of the game - physically, tactically and mentally. It was a complete systems failure. Yes, we had some injuries, but we had enough of out first choice players available to compete. I don't know if the blame lies with management or the players themselves. It's funny, I had exactly the same thought as Nidgeweasel - I watched Dublin on Saturday night and they were awesome - I didn't see us beating them. But I can't believe for a moment that players would throw in the towel and give up the chance to win 3 in a row based on what happened elsewhere.

Declan Bonner seems like a decent sort. A proud Donegal man, loves his County. Better for us than what went before. I have no idea if he's capable of getting more out of this group, or, if we have a decent pool of talent to expand the squad to give him more options. I expect the answer to both is 'no' but I am happy if I am wrong...

We need Stephen McMenamin and McFadden Ferry back. We have probably lost for good a few players that could have really made an impact (Gillespie and Carroll). Daire O'Baoill seems to have regressed, I don't know if that can be corrected, I hope it can. No idea where Tony McClenaghan is gone, if he wants to play, or if he is good enough. Lots of people have their doubts about McCole, I haven't seen enough of him. Conor Morrison has a great reputation at club level, but he will have missed a lot of time if and when he makes it back. Jeac MacCeallabhui was used in the previous games, but didn't appear at all on Sunday. Odd. I think we have to stop kidding ourselves that the McHughs and Mogan are defenders. I can see what we are trying to do, but I'd rather we started to develop a tougher defence with proper defenders and not utility type players. Mogan and McHugh should be in the team, but we need 5 or 6 backs to start.

Mad that folks are still calling out Paddy McBrearty. Showed well enough yesterday when we were able to get him the ball. Not the answer to our problems and not the cause of them either.

Yesterday was far from the end of the world. And there was nothing shameful or embarrassing about it. It was an opportunity missed to do something we won't have the chance to do for a while again. I'd expect most of the players to get the chance to answer the questions asked of them yesterday again next year and hope they are fit to answer them.

Good to see Louth have a new manager. Should put to bed some ridiculous talk.

LilNiall

That result hurts and hurts bad. Much worse than the past 2 years as this was Cavan, regular top 6 and Division 1 teams like Mayo and Tyrone. All we can do now is use it as fuel for next season but Ulster and a pop at the Dubs was there for it.

With regard to Bonner, i think he had a 3 year contract in 2018. 2 Ulster titles and remaining in Division 1 has meant his reign has been a success, albeit promised so much more. What next though? I doubt 1 year will be given. Do we give him 3 or 4 more years (Most likely Murphys final years) or go in a new direction?

henke

LilNiall wrote: »

That result hurts and hurts bad. Much worse than the past 2 years as this was Cavan, regular top 6 and Division 1 teams like Mayo and Tyrone. All we can do now is use it as fuel for next season but Ulster and a pop at the Dubs was there for it.

With regard to Bonner, i think he had a 3 year contract in 2018. 2 Ulster titles and remaining in Division 1 has meant his reign has been a success, albeit promised so much more. What next though? I doubt 1 year will be given. Do we give him 3 or 4 more years (Most likely Murphys final years) or go in a new direction?

A success but promised more would be a good enough way to describe. We took two tankings from Tyrone and Galway in 2017 and were a mess and everyone knew we were going nowhere with RG and wanted him gone. It is different this time and if Bonner does go it will be with everyone's best wishes. Hard to know the answer to the question do we go in a new direction and wouldn't like to be the one to answer it. The problem I see is who is really a viable candidate to take this team further.

bob skunkhouse

Well...that was a surprise....or was it? I don't have the facts at hand but I do remember Cavan winning a few U21s within the last ten years or so. I wonder how many of those teams played yesterday? I thought Donegal where as flat as shook up bottle of Football Special yesterday, whereas Cavan where like frying pan of sizzling sausages ready to explode! Goes to show you, it's hard to beat passion, desire, commitment, and an unbelievable will to win. Fair play to Cavan, thoroughly deserved and the best of luck up in Newry for the semi's.

A couple of points of note -
1) Our defense is average at best. Particular reference to the Armagh game when in the first 10 mins Armagh kicked in 3 long balls all won quite comfortably by the Armagh forwards. Better forwards that day for Armagh and we'd have been punished severely. Stephen McMen is a big loss and we need to unearth a few more players of his ilk. Players who know how to defend, can read the play and snuff out any danger.

2) Fair play to the Cavan sideline, our big threats were nullified and our next best didn't stand up. Ryan McH was oblivious in the second half, Langan was shut out, JB went missing again, don't think Paddy is match fit and very one footed.

3)Have we too many of the same type of player - smallish and speedy. Ryan McH, Eoin McH, McClean, Mogan, Brennan. They are all similar in stature and rely on their speed. With Ryan aside, it's all full pelt or nothing. Once confronted with a well organised defense they don't know what to do. Too often they get disposed or give the ball away. I could almost stick Niall O'D in with them also. Given all the hype about him a few years ago I do expect him to deliver a lot more consistently than he is. For me Gallen offers more and would start ahead of O'Donnell.

4) I'm very surprised with Jason Magee. He was playing excellent football either for LYIT or the county and don't understand how he's fallen so out of favour.

I was very critical of Caolan McGonigle earlier in the year but has totally justified his position in all three games and one of our better performers in the Championship.

thesultan

I think ye should give Murphy the league off and let him recharge the batteries

Redsoxfan

I don't want to hark back to 2012 because it's largely pointless, but if you look at the structure of the team then it looks so different to what we have now.

Back then, we had 6 orthodox defenders. Sure, they were comfortable on the ball and got forward, but they were primarily defenders.

We had a balanced midfield, with plenty of experience.

Our half forward line consisted of 2 very hard workers, plus a 3rd midfielder. Our number 10 played as a kind of sweeper, the sort of role his brother might well fit into now.

2 inside forwards, one of which was a pure corner forward.

We look very different now. Most of our players are good footballers, nearly all of them comfortable on the ball and happy to take a score. Great to watch when we are allowed to play the game on our terms.

Mogan, McGee, Langan, Thompson, Brennan (J), Gallen, O'Donnell (N), McClean are all young enough to develop more, and I hope they do. But it feels like we have too many of the same player. Trying to fit them all into the team feels like we will come up against the same issues that have tripped us up the last few years.

Looking back at the 2012 team, David Walsh and Ryan Bradley played very different roles under McGuinness than they had before he came along. I think we need to see some of the players listed above be 're-purposed' so that the sacrifice their obvious talent for the greater good. Still doesn't help us out at the back mind.

Cavan_King

bob skunkhouse wrote: »

Well...that was a surprise....or was it? I don't have the facts at hand but I do remember Cavan winning a few U21s within the last ten years or so. I wonder how many of those teams played yesterday? I thought Donegal where as flat as shook up bottle of Football Special yesterday, whereas Cavan where like frying pan of sizzling sausages ready to explode! Goes to show you, it's hard to beat passion, desire, commitment, and an unbelievable will to win. Fair play to Cavan, thoroughly deserved and the best of luck up in Newry for the semi's.

Most people in Cavan are saying that win was ten years in the making. In 2011, we won Ulster minor. 4 of the starting team from that team played Sunday (Faulkner, K Clarke, C Brady & G Smith). Two more were on the bench (Buchanan & P Graham). Those lads went on to win Ulster U21 titles too and are still only 26 this year.

2011 was also the start of our run of four U21 Ulster titles. That 2011 team was captained by McKiernan. He, Jason McLoughlin, Killian Brady, Chris Conroy & Madden all have U21 medals from that period. The majority of those lads are 27/28, McKiernan being 30.

Then you have players like James Smith & Oisin Pierson who were part of our 2017 minor team that went to the All Ireland semi final and lost to a David Clifford inspired Kerry team.

Others like Thomas Galligan & Thomas Edward Donohoe were part of the St Pats McCrory winning cup team. Luke Fortune & Thomas Edward have won Sigersons.

And that’s just the starting 15 and immediate subs. There’s a panel of 41 players there full of lads with medals.

Basically, that Cavan team is made up of lads who are used to winning things and we’d hope they are around a lot longer than how they’ve been dismissed by some posters on this thread. There’s no reason that can’t be a breakthrough win like 2013 was for Monaghan.

Ray Galligan (whose a goalie so can play longer than an outfield player) & Martin Reilly are the only players over 30 that started.

Arguably two of our best players from the last few years, McVeety & Moynagh, are also still only 26 and may come home from their travels at some stage to play. Very little has been said about our vice captain Niall Murray who was only fit for 15 minute later at the end. He’s a very influential player for us too.

I don’t mean to rub it in but Sunday wasn’t a smash and grab by an underdog either. Despite the referee’s best attempts (and you can read plenty of neutral opinions on him on the game thread here and on Twitter), Cavan got their tactics and match ups right and controlled the game. Donegal only scored three points I think it is while Cavan had a full 15 on the pitch.

Now, Donegal are a fantastic team and a credit to Ulster, so I’m not trying to run them down, but I just can’t see how Cavan are being so openly dismissed immediately as a flash in the pan.

Nidgeweasel

Darragh O'Se has summed up Donegal's performance (or lack of it) on Sunday fairly well in the paper today.

Declan was on with Devenny on highland the other night there too. Fair play to him, he never shies away from it anyway.

Redsoxfan

Yeah Darragh's piece was pretty good.

Fair play to Declan for going on the DL Debate. Hard to know, but it he sounded like he might have had enough.

Devenny made similar points about our defence - too many forwards.

Nidgeweasel

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Yeah Darragh's piece was pretty good.

Fair play to Declan for going on the DL Debate. Hard to know, but it he sounded like he might have had enough.

Devenny made similar points about our defence - too many forwards.

Thing is too, you never know what’s going on in a dressing room. Natural to look more to management after a defeat but the caliber of the people invovled in that set up and how good they are makes me think the failure to show up on Sunday is maybe more of a player thing and just not doing what they were coached / told to do. Murphy was well shackled but how many times was it him the last one chasing back doing other peoples jobs. He looked disgusted at the end and we all know his standards.

Fairly exasperating for a manager too if that has happened a few times in terms of a lack of a response from a group. As I said, I suspect there will be a fall out to come at some stage. Possibly in the next few weeks.

doc_17

I see the S&C man is gone. First casualty? Think there was a meeting this week and Rochford is staying.

Murphy14

That’s good to hear about Rochford...but we seriously need to develop a mental toughness ..Tipperary have played in two All Ireland semi finals since 2016 we haven’t been in one since 2014

Minister Boyce

Its a number of weeks on and still can't help but have the same feeling after the AI Final of 2014, as in, what the funk happened? Cavan feel like we did in 2011, after such a long wait, their joy after the final whistle was great to see; just a pity that it came at our expense.

Would've been nice to see DB do the 3 in a row, but it wasn't to be. Its fair to say that he has known his fair share of bad luck when it comes to finals/crunch games. It doesn't make great reading.

Have not heard the DL Debate but fair play to DB for going on. If changes are needed for next year, then one immediate one is at his own door. GTFO of that weekly Donegal News column. I have harped on about this before. We do not need to know his thoughts on everything GAA related in the county each week. Stick to the gig!

The analysis of the game is well covered in previous posts, they only one issue that sticks out with me is the decision to sub McBrearty.

doc_17

Plus, he says dam all in the column anyway. Bland stuff.

doc_17

So, Durcan has retired from the county? What a servant he was for us. Best wishes on his new role with Sligo as goalkeeping coach.

Redsoxfan

Listened into the 2nd half of the Minors. Nip and tuck. Opposition kicked as many wides as they had scores. Sounded like another Canavan made a real difference.

Hate the look of this league structure. See enough of those teams in the Championship.

Minister Boyce

doc_17 wrote: »

So, Durcan has retired from the county? What a servant he was for us. Best wishes on his new role with Sligo as goalkeeping coach.

sticking the big spag out in 2012 to save Penrose's last minute goal attempt in the Ulster Semi Final and saving our bacon. Some drama. Some days. Happy Retirement Papa.

Redsoxfan

Neil McGee coming back in 2021.

In fairness, nobody seems to be putting their hand up for the 3 shirt.

And not much chance for anyone to make a case with shortened preseason and league.

moghrasa

Thank God for that news! I'm scared to think of the day that Neil decides he's had enough. He's just so dependable and were very fortunate to have had him keeping things in order for the last decade.

I think we are a some defensive depth away from properly challenging for an All Ireland. I think McGrath, McGee and McMenamin is a solid full back line but between them they seem to pick up a brave few wee niggly injuries unfortunately. I'd love to see a few new players come through in the next year or two. Such a pity for Conor Morrison of St Eunan's with regards the knee injury, and Kieran Gillespie can't catch a break either. Am I right in thinking they're both ruled out for this coming championship? Or is Gillespie back playing?

Alvin Holler

Great news about Neil. This was his first year in a while that he was fairly injury free and was still one of our best players. With the shortened season next year, it should be easier for players to commit. Assuming covid doesn't mess things up too much then our inter county season should be over by the end of June.

McMenamin and McFF were badly missed against Cavan. I don't think McGrath will start again though. Gillespie should be fit again as he did his cruciate in Oct 2019 but hard to see him get back considering all the injuries.

In a dream world you'd have a defence of
EBG
McGee
McMenamin
McHugh
Gillespie
McFadden-Ferry

doc_17

Alvin Holler wrote: »

Great news about Neil. This was his first year in a while that he was fairly injury free and was still one of our best players. With the shortened season next year, it should be easier for players to commit. Assuming covid doesn't mess things up too much then our inter county season should be over by the end of June.

McMenamin and McFF were badly missed against Cavan. I don't think McGrath will start again though. Gillespie should be fit again as he did his cruciate in Oct 2019 but hard to see him get back considering all the injuries.

In a dream world you'd have a defence of
EBG
McGee
McMenamin
McHugh
Gillespie
McFadden-Ferry

McHugh isn’t really a defender though?

Redsoxfan

Disappointed to see Lacey stepping away.

No idea what he did or didn't do but always like seeing legends involved after they stop playing.

ghostfacekilla

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Disappointed to see Lacey stepping away.

No idea what he did or didn't do but always like seeing legends involved after they stop playing.

I noticed a considerable improvement in our tackling last year. Some of the dispossessions were ninja-like and it made me think it was Lacey’s stamp on that.

I think priority this year is to get someone who can instill a ferocious hunger in this bunch. I can see us having a barren few years outside of Ulster unless we can get a real leader out of these youngsters.

moghrasa

https://twitter.com/RNF36/status/1346520981834227713?s=20

Breaking news here reporting that Odhrán Mac Niallais is coming back for next year. I hope to Christ that this news is right enough. Players like him are hard to come by - its hard to think of anyone more graceful with the ball in his hands than Mac Niallais and he's so versatile also.

Especially comforting news given the departures of Lacey (and Paul Fisher leaving the S&C Role a few weeks back). Hopefully with intercounty training being delayed a few weeks now by the gubbermint it'll give us some extra time to put new faces in the coaching team (or maybe we should 'volunteer harder' ) and we'll be ready to go for the coming year.