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Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

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    #422
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    keane2097 wrote: »
    I don't know whether you'll agree (I suspect not!) but I thought at the time that in a world where All Ireland quarter- and semi-finals were played over two legs Kerry and Cork would likely have learned enough the first day out to have Donegal's number the second day
    Sure we woulda sussed out Mayo last year too if there was a second leg.:D


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    #423
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    And if my aunt had balls....:D

    Cheers -we loved watching it too. We're waiting hard on seeing it again.

    Ah now not trying to say Donegal didn't deserve to win either game or the All Ireland, but just in the context of your statement that teams played into your hands I thought it was interesting that Kerry and Cork looked to be getting to grips with Donegal a lot more as the game went on.

    It would have been very cool to see either team get another crack a week later and see how it would have panned out.
    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    With respect to Conor Counihan, I don't think he'd have figured anything out over the space of a week. Wouldn't have him down as a tactician by any shape or means.

    Kerry, who knows, Jacko's a cute one. They came close to equalising but we rode it out and Lacey got the insurance score. I'd have been more worried about the psychological impact of a 2nd day then the opposition having our number.

    Is interesting that almost every team said they knew what they were coming up against but were still shocked and caught cold by our intensity that year. We were very much on a mission and had great momentum.

    Kerry would have had a better sideline I think, but Cork's players seemed to work it out for themselves to an extent as well.

    One thing Donegal showed enormous quantities of that year was bottle, as exemplified by Lacey in the Kerry game alright.
    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    I'm genuinely glad you enjoyed it. I enjoyed watching us too, that Cork semi final is the best performance I've seen from a Donegal side in 30+ years. Operating at a different level. It's hard to understand really but that season was like a dream. We're not a successful county by any means but we are football daft and have always know we've had the talent. To see those lads achieve an AI playing as they did in the circumstances they did was magical. Glad to have seen it, and desperate for it again!

    I remember chatting to a few groups of Donegal fans after the Kerry game. They were half apologetic to have won. I told them "if anyone tells ye ye are playing bad football tell them I said to **** off"!

    Fingers crossed ye'll be more like 2012 again this year, the Championship is looking very weak outside of Dublin at the moment, could be a poor enough year if no other team lifts it.


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    #424
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »
    I've always had the opposite, and I spent a lot of time in both counties growing up. Have always found Monaghan fans to be obnoxious, you can add in 95 in Ballybofey to occasions when they felt the need to rub it in when beating Donegal. Same in Omagh in 07, but maybe I was just situated in a bad place.

    Have been to many's a Cavan game over the years, and they have always been very gracious in victory and defeat. Have had great craic with their fans also.

    Agreed on Mayo fans, wasn't there, but heard the behaviour of their fans last year was beyond belief for a GAA match.

    Sorry, got my years wrong. Meant 07 and 08! Strange, probably just personal experiences then. I've never had an issue with them and always found them to be on the whole, quite a content bunch.

    I thought the same for Cavan if I'm being honest. Love going to Breffni, great town and great people. Really took me surprise the carry on after Mayo had beat us out the gate. Maybe it's down to our recent success, hard to say.

    I won't get into the Mayo carry on but it sickened me. It wasn't a minority either. Again, probably because you expect the opposite. Like ourselves a fiercely hospitable county.

    Hopefully people don't think the same about us! We've got our share of balloons who enjoy a drink but there's never any malice from what I've seen down the years. Pure giddyness really.


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    #425
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    keane2097 wrote: »

    I remember chatting to a few groups of Donegal fans after the Kerry game. They were half apologetic to have won. I told them "if anyone tells ye ye are playing bad football tell them I said to **** off"!

    That'd be us alright, Commiserating instead of celebrating!


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    #426
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    We look 'leggy' and seem to have lost something. I felt it all the way through last year and put it down to Post AI exertions and the late training schedule.

    We've always had a bit of zip about us but now it's like we've got concrete boots on in a way. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is but our dynamism of a few years ago seems to be a world away at the minute. And that's the word I'd use too, dynamic.

    Don't think it's down to fitness per se. Think they may have reached saturation point. Hard to say. It's very early to make any assumptions though as you say. Very much as case of wait and see.

    The Derry game is really a mouthwatering prospect. I can't wait. It's always one of those games you look forward too (and dread in a way) but with their form in the league, McIvor, the questions hanging over ourselves, it's really setting up the championship for an explosive start.


    The pace and ferocious work-rate has gone out of ye're game completely. Unusual to see ye're defence so easily exposed at times, counter-attacking was very slow. Lacey and McGlynn pale shadows of the rampaging sprinters that we saw in 2012. Thompson was ye're most attacking defender yesterday and he is just too ponderous for that role.
    Kavanagh I think was frustrated because Darren Hughes was lording midfield in the first half and lashed out.
    Was disappointed with Donegal yesterday. Had thought ye might be one of the teams to give Dublin a good challenge this year, but on yesterdays evidence, Donegal wouldn't keep it kicked out to them. Still it was only the league and there will undoubtedly be improvement, but I think it will be a good season if it lasts until August for ye.


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    #427
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Ah now not trying to say Donegal didn't deserve to win either game or the All Ireland, but just in the context of your statement that teams played into your hands I thought it was interesting that Kerry and Cork looked to be getting to grips with Donegal a lot more as the game went on.

    It would have been very cool to see either team get another crack a week later and see how it would have panned out.



    Kerry would have had a better sideline I think, but Cork's players seemed to work it out for themselves to an extent as well.

    One thing Donegal showed enormous quantities of that year was bottle, as exemplified by Lacey in the Kerry game alright.



    I remember chatting to a few groups of Donegal fans after the Kerry game. They were half apologetic to have won. I told them "if anyone tells ye ye are playing bad football tell them I said to **** off"!

    Fingers crossed ye'll be more like 2012 again this year, the Championship is looking very weak outside of Dublin at the moment, could be a poor enough year if no other team lifts it.
    The underlined bit couldnt be more wrong-in both cases Donegal were pulling away and getting scores much easier as the half wore on-in fact Cork pretty had totally lost all shape late in the game and just happened to get a goal with the last kick of the game. Kerry got 1-2 in a couple of minutes when Donegal saw the finish line but Donegal were the dominant team in the last quarter.


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    #428
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    harpsman wrote: »
    The underlined bit couldnt be more wrong-in both cases Donegal were pulling away and getting scores much easier as the half wore on-in fact Cork pretty had totally lost all shape late in the game and just happened to get a goal with the last kick of the game. Kerry got 1-2 in a couple of minutes when Donegal saw the finish line but Donegal were the dominant team in the last quarter.

    Cork were utterly put to the sword in the second half of that match. I actually felt sorry for them, they were so inept. They had not got a clue how to break down the Donegal defence. They poured forward in numbers and got caught for easy scores on the counter attack.

    That Cork team only ever had a Plan A and when it didn't work, they could look pretty poor. Kerry 2009 were toying with them in the second half of that All-Ireland final.


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    #429
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    harpsman wrote: »
    The underlined bit couldnt be more wrong-in both cases Donegal were pulling away and getting scores much easier as the half wore on-in fact Cork pretty had totally lost all shape late in the game and just happened to get a goal with the last kick of the game. Kerry got 1-2 in a couple of minutes when Donegal saw the finish line but Donegal were the dominant team in the last quarter.

    It's a long time since I watched either game admittedly.


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    #430
    babybuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    Donegal won 2012 because they were superfit, hugely determined and played a unique tactical game. Take away theses attributes and we don't have the skill set( winning possession, good foot passing, kicking long range scores, etc) to really test the other top teams. We relied heavily in turning ball over and hitting teams on the break.

    Our inability to kick angled balls into space for players to run on to, the slow ponderous build-up and our ineffectiveness to lay a determined tackle on the opposition has been a recurring feature since the Down game last year. Even in the Tyrone match we struggled to get any meaningful possession. In any game if you cannot win primary possession you will lose more times than you win.

    I have been to four league matches this year and there has been a steady deterioration from the second game in. However, we have qualified to Division 1 and I think we can still give Derry a game. The real question is has McGuinness pulled off one of the great achievements in modern football by winning an All Ireland with this group of players?


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    #431
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Excellent post babybuilder. The point about kicking balls into space especially.

    I would disagree that our players don't have the skill sets you refer to. But perhaps they are not being focused on in training?

    I don't necessarily agree that our tactics in 2012 were that unique. I don't think that they were that different from those used by Tyrone when they were going really well. Whatever, we were very fit, we worked very hard and we executed very well (scores taken/scoring chances - we were very efficient).

    I was at every game barring Louth this year and I felt that we have been steadily deteriorating since the Laois game, when we did look pretty good. But, none of this may be relevant for the championship. However, we can only go on what we are seeing vs what we hope to see.


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    #432
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    keane2097 wrote: »
    It's a long time since I watched either game admittedly.

    You re alright. You probably dont stick on those games on youtube every time you get in after a few drinks :). Anyway as a kerryman u probably have more choice ( except tyrone games :) )


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    #433
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    babybuilder wrote: »
    Donegal won 2012 because they were superfit, hugely determined and played a unique tactical game. Take away theses attributes and we don't have the skill set( winning possession, good foot passing, kicking long range scores, etc) to really test the other top teams. We relied heavily in turning ball over and hitting teams on the break.

    Our inability to kick angled balls into space for players to run on to, the slow ponderous build-up and our ineffectiveness to lay a determined tackle on the opposition has been a recurring feature since the Down game last year. Even in the Tyrone match we struggled to get any meaningful possession. In any game if you cannot win primary possession you will lose more times than you win.

    I have been to four league matches this year and there has been a steady deterioration from the second game in. However, we have qualified to Division 1 and I think we can still give Derry a game. The real question is has McGuinness pulled off one of the great achievements in modern football by winning an All Ireland with this group of players?

    First point- agree. As i said earlier at our best in 12 we tended to grind teams and then maybe pull away later on due to superior fitness. A couple of big goals of the jim era were down to murphy stripping a player of the ball- not something you see often.
    Second point i would love to see us kick passes into space for forwards- particularly with the inside 3 we have but its not a style jim favours. Personally i always think we get a reasonable amount of joy out of direct ball into murphy. In fairness i think supporters of every team are seeking this holy grail as well.
    Lastly i dont think theres any doubt that mc gs pulled of possibly the greatest managerial coup in winning sam with this team who as a squad are probably a top 8 team.


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    #434
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    harpsman wrote: »
    First point- agree. As i said earlier at our best in 12 we tended to grind teams and then maybe pull away later on due to superior fitness. A couple of big goals of the jim era were down to murphy stripping a player of the ball- not something you see often.
    Second point i would love to see us kick passes into space for forwards- particularly with the inside 3 we have but its not a style jim favours. Personally i always think we get a reasonable amount of joy out of direct ball into murphy. In fairness i think supporters of every team are seeking this holy grail as well.
    Lastly i dont think theres any doubt that mc gs pulled of possibly the greatest managerial coup in winning sam with this team who as a squad are probably a top 8 team.

    In 2012 ye were able to isolate Murphy for some direct ball into him as one of a number of tactics. On Sunday while he did brilliantly to win some of the ball, it wasn't so much a tactic as a last resort for when ye ran out of ideas out the field. He was double-teamed nearly every time, and it wasn't very effective, but because of lack of support coming at pace, the only option was to kick long into Murphy and McFadden.


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    #435
    Gary Neville
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Gary Neville


    babybuilder wrote: »
    Donegal won 2012 because they were superfit, hugely determined and played a unique tactical game. Take away theses attributes and we don't have the skill set( winning possession, good foot passing, kicking long range scores, etc) to really test the other top teams. We relied heavily in turning ball over and hitting teams on the break.

    Our inability to kick angled balls into space for players to run on to, the slow ponderous build-up and our ineffectiveness to lay a determined tackle on the opposition has been a recurring feature since the Down game last year. Even in the Tyrone match we struggled to get any meaningful possession. In any game if you cannot win primary possession you will lose more times than you win.

    I have been to four league matches this year and there has been a steady deterioration from the second game in. However, we have qualified to Division 1 and I think we can still give Derry a game. The real question is has McGuinness pulled off one of the great achievements in modern football by winning an All Ireland with this group of players?

    I expected Donegal to be one of Dublin's main challengers this year. But the league form has been patchy and this latest performance suggests that Donegal are nowhere near the level of 2012.

    Lacey, McFadden and Mark McHugh are way off their 2012 level and Gallagher doesn't seem to be rated as a starter. When you look at the quality of the Magees, Murphy, McBrearty, Kavenagh and others, you would expect Donegal to challenge.
    Is it possible that McGunness is planning to peak later and that the training in Portugal resulted in a flat performance v Monaghan ?


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    #436
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    keane2097 wrote: »
    It's a long time since I watched either game admittedly.

    I can see your argument in the Kerry match but Cork doesn't really back it up. We went toe to toe with Cork in the first half, think they might have been a point up IIRC. We just tore into them and blitzed them in the third quarter and they'd no answer for it, physically and mentally defeated them in that time. O'Neill got a good goal but I don't think we looked in danger at the end.
    Gary Neville wrote:
    Is it possible that McGunness is planning to peak later and that the training in Portugal resulted in a flat performance v Monaghan ?

    Well I'd say it must have some effect, but as others said we looked better the first couple of games so its a worry.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #437
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Gary Neville wrote: »
    Is it possible that McGunness is planning to peak later and that the training in Portugal resulted in a flat performance v Monaghan ?
    I hope so!


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    #438
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Gary Neville wrote: »
    Is it possible that McGunness is planning to peak later and that the training in Portugal resulted in a flat performance v Monaghan ?

    Of course it's possible, but it's far from certain exactly why we were so lethargic on Sunday.

    I watched the game again last night and we were truly awful in the first half. The second half was very marginally better and I guess you can make the case that the sending off derailed our usual 3rd quarter surge, but this is all extreme whataboutery.

    Monaghan were more physcial, more focused, fitter. A lot of what they did reminded me of our own play in 2012. It's getting on nearly two years since we have seen anything like that kind of performance from Donegal, so it's easy to see why we would have doubts.

    Declan Bonner writing in the Donegal News said that Tommy Carr told him once that it takes three weeks to see the benefit of the type of training camp Donegal just went on to Portugal. I have no idea if it's true or not, it could well be a load of guff. The rest of his piece reflects the type of concerns we are voicing here.


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    #439
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    I see Jim is setting out his us against the world stall again this year. This time it's about national media attention focusing on our club games being called off. He's probably right enough in what he says but I don't like this "certain quarters have it in for us" notion that's become the norm over the last few years.

    Edit: saw it on Donegal Daily which references the Star. No idea how to link it on the phone.


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    #440
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    2moreMinutes wrote: »
    I see Jim is setting out his us against the world stall again this year. This time it's about national media attention focusing on our club games being called off. He's probably right enough in what he says but I don't like this "certain quarters have it in for us" notion that's become the norm over the last few years.

    Edit: saw it on Donegal Daily which references the Star. No idea how to link it on the phone.

    Last year was an embarrassment. Rory Gallagher came out with some amount of ****e, as did Jim to an extent.


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    #441
    Gary Neville
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Gary Neville


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Of course it's possible, but it's far from certain exactly why we were so lethargic on Sunday.

    I watched the game again last night and we were truly awful in the first half. The second half was very marginally better and I guess you can make the case that the sending off derailed our usual 3rd quarter surge, but this is all extreme whataboutery.

    Monaghan were more physcial, more focused, fitter. A lot of what they did reminded me of our own play in 2012. It's getting on nearly two years since we have seen anything like that kind of performance from Donegal, so it's easy to see why we would have doubts.

    Declan Bonner writing in the Donegal News said that Tommy Carr told him once that it takes three weeks to see the benefit of the type of training camp Donegal just went on to Portugal. I have no idea if it's true or not, it could well be a load of guff. The rest of his piece reflects the type of concerns we are voicing here.

    It's hard to say how focused Donegal were but I would be surprised if McGuinness didn't want a big effort. I'd imagine that under normal circumstances McGuinness might not do a very hard week's work so near to a final.

    However, what would concern me more is the poor form of Lacey, McFadden and Mark McHugh and a few others. I have only seen Donegal in the game v Monaghan but I understand their form has been well below the 2012 level - These 3 need to operate at 100% IMO - comments please ?


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    #442
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    2moreMinutes wrote: »
    Edit: saw it on Donegal Daily which references the Star. No idea how to link it on the phone.

    Ah here....

    Jim had a point to what he said regarding fixtures. None of the other three counties playing on Sunday had two rounds of fixtures last weekend. I think we all know who he is talking about when he refers to the fact that the criticism is coming from 'certain quarters'.


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    #443
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Gary Neville wrote: »
    However, what would concern me more is the poor form of Lacey, McFadden and Mark McHugh and a few others. I have only seen Donegal in the game v Monaghan but I understand their form has been well below the 2012 level - These 3 need to operate at 100% IMO - comments please ?

    I don't think Lacey and McFadden have been showing poor form throughout the league to be honest, no more so than others. The bar is very high for former Footballers of the Year and All Stars. I thought McFadden worked very hard on Sunday but was very well marked, again.

    Mark McHugh's form hasn't been great as far as I am concerned.

    I would agree that all three need to operate at 100%. And a few more besides.


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    #444
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Ah here....
    Lol, I know! It's a good place to read a "story" though before actually seeking a more reliable source, eg, your neighbours cat.


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    #445
    babybuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    Another challenge for Donegal is that they have a manager who is adopting a professional approach in the absence of the players being able to do the same. The players do not have the capacity or time to properly rest or recuperate. They really need rest. McGuinness expects the players to perform to his performance levels when in fact the opposite is happening. I know it is early but most of the top teams seem to be physically stronger and faster. I'd worry about the lack of physicality with Ryan McHugh and Odhran Mc Neilis.

    I really do hope that we see a totally refreshed Donegal side at the end of the month of May. Having seen Derry play against Dublin I'd say they are beatable if we can significantly increase our performance levels.


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    #446
    babybuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭babybuilder


    Gary Neville wrote: »
    It's hard to say how focused Donegal were but I would be surprised if McGuinness didn't want a big effort. I'd imagine that under normal circumstances McGuinness might not do a very hard week's work so near to a final.

    However, what would concern me more is the poor form of Lacey, McFadden and Mark McHugh and a few others. I have only seen Donegal in the game v Monaghan but I understand their form has been well below the 2012 level - These 3 need to operate at 100% IMO - comments please ?

    I agree. Lacey's tank appears empty and we don't know what limitations have been imposed as a result of his last operation. McHugh has to be the worst kicker of the ball I've ever seen for an inter-county footballer. However, his relentless work-rate was his strength in 2012 and I just hope that he can recover this. Mc Fadden is getting no younger and he and Murphy are and will be closely watched by opposition teams. Fast intelligent ball must be worked up top them and to Mc Brearty. Also players out the field must rekindle those blistering breaks and start kicking scores. If this happens it can relieve the pressure on the inside forwards who can get more space as a result.


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    #447
    RGM
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭RGM


    I'm surprised to see so many comments on the forwards when I thought the story of the match was clearly the total lack of defense. This is the same Donegal that nearly made the 2011 All-Ireland final solely on the merits of a suffocating defense, and the Donegal that had everyone in the world talking about "the system," yet Monaghan was walking it right up the middle of the park unchallenged. What happened there?


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    #448
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    RGM wrote: »
    I'm surprised to see so many comments on the forwards when I thought the story of the match was clearly the total lack of defense. This is the same Donegal that nearly made the 2011 All-Ireland final solely on the merits of a suffocating defense, and the Donegal that had everyone in the world talking about "the system," yet Monaghan was walking it right up the middle of the park unchallenged. What happened there?

    I watched the game back last night and felt our inside forwards worked hard but weren't helped by our own ponderous build up and sloppy distribution, as well as Monaghan's tenacious defence.

    As to the "the system" (I hate this term) - our defensive solidity was based on more than just than those wearing 2-7. When we are not able to get bodies back, it breaks down into more one on one battles, where the opposition forward is typically the favourite. Notice how often our full back line players were left isolated on Sunday. We were turning over the ball far too much on Sunday (I counted five occasions where the ball dropped into Rory Beggan's hands, and two more occasions where Monaghan defenders caught the ball in the box. In addition, Martin McElhinney was responsible for 2 or 3 turnovers inside the Monaghan 21 before he was substituted), and Monaghan were set up to play on the break.

    Bottom line is, "the system" breaks down when we play as lethargically as we did on Sunday. Much of it was based on exceptional fitness. We seem to be lacking in that regard at the moment.


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    #449
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    RGM wrote: »
    I'm surprised to see so many comments on the forwards when I thought the story of the match was clearly the total lack of defense. This is the same Donegal that nearly made the 2011 All-Ireland final solely on the merits of a suffocating defense, and the Donegal that had everyone in the world talking about "the system," yet Monaghan was walking it right up the middle of the park unchallenged. What happened there?
    Agreed, particularly in 2011 our score concession was about 8 pts per match, which made us hard to beat. From half time of the ulster semi final against Down last year the centre of our defence has just opened up and we dont seem to be able to stop players who run at us.


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    #450
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,256 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Mark McHugh's form hasn't been great as far as I am concerned.

    Well now. This will be a huge story if true. I can't see the Democrat running with it if there is no substance to it.

    Mark McHugh rumoured to have left Donegal panel.


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    #451
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    Redsoxfan wrote: »
    Well now. This will be a huge story if true. I can't see the Democrat running with it if there is no substance to it.

    Mark McHugh rumoured to have left Donegal panel.
    Seems strange that McHugh says he's waiting to talk to Jim. I didn't hear of any unrest before reading this.

    Cue a summer of rumours and counter rumours if the above is true.


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