Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

Gary Neville

It looks as if Donegal are keen to let McHugh know that the door is open for his return. A selector made the point and now Durcan says the same. He seems to be directing it at McHugh rather than the other lads that left the panel.

It would seem a bit strange to be prepared to take back a lad that left 3/4 weeks before a vital 1st rd c/ship game whilst Kevin Cassidy was cast aside permanenty for co-operating with the writing of a book. What do supporters think ?

Also I can see that McGuinness is correct in saying that the black card has changed the way that defenders tackle - he is questioning whether that's good for GAA but he was very vocal is asking for more protection when his players suffered concussion last year - Is he leaving himself open to charges of self-contradiction ?

overshoot

in fairness i can see why the other 3 left, classon being parachuted in ahead of them. McHugh im not really sure anymore, cant help wondering if it was just final college exams/having a bit of a life/last chance to do J1 etc. Lets face it the lads are basically pulling a professional training regime on top of a normal life
Also kinda think Ryan would have followed him out of the squad if there was a bust up (unless mark was way in the wrong).

then again balancing work & college myself i dont really have a balls notion whats going on this year!

ProudDUB

Gary Neville wrote: »

It looks as if Donegal are keen to let McHugh know that the door is open for his return. A selector made the point and now Durcan says the same. He seems to be directing it at McHugh rather than the other lads that left the panel.

It would seem a bit strange to be prepared to take back a lad that left 3/4 weeks before a vital 1st rd c/ship game whilst Kevin Cassidy was cast aside permanenty for co-operating with the writing of a book. What do supporters think ?

McHugh hasn't done anything wrong. He hasn't broken any team rules, at least none that we know of. (I've read rumours, but that is about it.) Kevin Cassidy did break a squad rule and, a pretty big one at that. It wouldn't make sense for McHugh to be shown the cold shoulder to the degree that KC was.

Maybe Jim is reacting with the benefit of hindsight? Maybe he knows now that a massive over reaction to something like this, only hurts the squad. Add in how small the panel is over all & how they can ill afford to lose someone of McHugh's importance & I can see why they would be doing whatever it takes to get him back.

harpsman

Gary Neville wrote: »

It looks as if Donegal are keen to let McHugh know that the door is open for his return. A selector made the point and now Durcan says the same. He seems to be directing it at McHugh rather than the other lads that left the panel.

It would seem a bit strange to be prepared to take back a lad that left 3/4 weeks before a vital 1st rd c/ship game whilst Kevin Cassidy was cast aside permanenty for co-operating with the writing of a book. What do supporters think ?

Also I can see that McGuinness is correct in saying that the black card has changed the way that defenders tackle - he is questioning whether that's good for GAA but he was very vocal is asking for more protection when his players suffered concussion last year - Is he leaving himself open to charges of self-contradiction ?

Ah here Gaz-dont be openin up old wounds.:D But seriously, obviously jim felt Kevs offence was unforgivable. A more reasonable person might have taken him back but exceptional coaches dont tend to reasonable-its part of what makes em exceptional.

Its possible that McHugh is just feelin a bit of burnout with the constant pressure of training and playing,with college exams and also strugglin for form. If this is the reason I can see why theyd keep the door open. a few years ago Stephen O Neill left the Tyrone panel and there were all sorts of rumours goin round. Needless to say they were all nonsense and he was back before the all ireland.

With regard to the concussion/black card theres no contradiction there as theyre 2 completely different aspects of the game-if you commit a foul that leaves someone with concussion you ll either get yellow or red(or nothing in Stephen Golloglys case:eek:) but not a black.
McG may have been having a whinge last July but I personally think the game is becoming more dangerous and its a topic worthy of discussion. However the brains trust in the media and on boards dont agree.;)

SM746

Joe McQuillan reffing. Not his biggest fan

Redsoxfan

SM746 wrote: »

Joe McQuillan reffing. Not his biggest fan

Good man, get the excuses in early...;)

Seriously, doesn't matter a damn. Ref won't decide matters either way. If he does, we will have fallen short in our own game.

RGM

Why aren't the hurlers in the Christy Ring this year? I'm so confused.

Redsoxfan

RGM wrote: »

Why aren't the hurlers in the Christy Ring this year? I'm so confused.

Because hurling said so...covered a while back. Anyway, dunno if they are good enough for Ring, but sure I guess there is only one way to find out.

Anyway, assuming Joe McQuillan finds some reason to send Michael Murphy off after 10 minutes and we lose to Derry, the way the Qualifiers work this year, I would fancy our chances of a Quarter Final regardless. We can only draw a team from Group A at any stage of the Qualifiers.

Group A: Donegal, Derry, Fermanagh, Antrim, Tipperary, Limerick, Cork, Galway, London, Sligo, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Offaly, Wexford, Dublin

Group B: Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Clare, Waterford, Kerry, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Westmeath, Louth, Kildare, Carlow, Meath

RGM

Can you confirm that Colm McFadden will have the new record for most Championship appearances by a Donegal player if he plays against Derry? Still second in overall appearances I think.

Ceist_Beag

Redsoxfan wrote: »

We can only draw a team from Group A at any stage of the Qualifiers.

Group A: Donegal, Derry, Fermanagh, Antrim, Tipperary, Limerick, Cork, Galway, London, Sligo, Wicklow, Laois, Longford, Offaly, Wexford, Dublin

Group B: Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan, Clare, Waterford, Kerry, Leitrim, Roscommon, Mayo, Westmeath, Louth, Kildare, Carlow, Meath

If I may say so, that is an excellent observation Redsoxfan! I completely missed the change in rules with regards to the qualifiers and you have to say we really have the easy side of the draw there. The other group looks incredibly tough in comparison. No doubt Jim will want to win Ulster but you would have to say if we get knocked out then a quarter final with Dublin is not completely out of the question - and wouldn't we like a shot at the Dubs!

Nidgeweasel

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Good man, get the excuses in early...;)

Seriously, doesn't matter a damn. Ref won't decide matters either way. If he does, we will have fallen short in our own game.

Michael Monaghan may have something to say about that particular hypothesis.

I'm being facetious to an extent being so blunt obviously and the ref is the last person i'll look to blame, but the referee can have a critical outcome on a result. Taking the Kildare man as a result, sending Sweeney off and more to the point allowing McGeeney and McEntee to remain on the pitch altered the outcome of the result.

Another good example I remember being flagged up was when Sligo were denied a penalty in 2002 against Armagh in the dying stages. One of those that are often given. That result was affected by the way the referee thought or reacted. Had the ref not thought as he did Armagh would not have won the All Ireland. Food for thought, And mores the pity!

Nidgeweasel

RGM wrote: »

Can you confirm that Colm McFadden will have the new record for most Championship appearances by a Donegal player if he plays against Derry? Still second in overall appearances I think.

Should he play against Derry that will be his 51st Championship appearance. One more than Michael Hegarty.

All time record I believe is still held by the wee warrior from Ballyshannon, Brian Roper.

Gary Neville

harpsman wrote: »

Ah here Gaz-dont be openin up old wounds.:D But seriously, obviously jim felt Kevs offence was unforgivable. A more reasonable person might have taken him back but exceptional coaches dont tend to reasonable-its part of what makes em exceptional.

Its possible that McHugh is just feelin a bit of burnout with the constant pressure of training and playing,with college exams and also strugglin for form. If this is the reason I can see why theyd keep the door open. a few years ago Stephen O Neill left the Tyrone panel and there were all sorts of rumours goin round. Needless to say they were all nonsense and he was back before the all ireland.

With regard to the concussion/black card theres no contradiction there as theyre 2 completely different aspects of the game-if you commit a foul that leaves someone with concussion you ll either get yellow or red(or nothing in Stephen Golloglys case:eek:) but not a black.
McG may have been having a whinge last July but I personally think the game is becoming more dangerous and its a topic worthy of discussion. However the brains trust in the media and on boards dont agree.;)

I'd agree with evertthing you've said Harpsman.

You make a good distinction between McHugh and Cassidy. Let's hope that Mark will do well in his exams and he may rediscover his appetite. The game needs all its stars.

I'd listen very carefully to anything McG says as he's one of the most astute figures in the game and his exposure to professional sport has to increase his knowledge. I fully agreed with his point regarding lack of protection and concussion.

The one area where McG was wrong IMO was his treatment of D Bogue in the post AI press meeting but I've never heard McG's reasons.

Very intersting post about Donegal's opponents if they lose in Derry - It would be very interesting to see Donegal v Dublin and the clash of 2 totally opposing styles, later on.

Nidgeweasel

Gary Neville wrote: »

I'd agree with evertthing you've said Harpsman.

You make a good distinction between McHugh and Cassidy. Let's hope that Mark will do well in his exams and he may rediscover his appetite. The game needs all its stars.

I'd listen very carefully to anything McG says as he's one of the most astute figures in the game and his exposure to professional sport has to increase his knowledge. I fully agreed with his point regarding lack of protection and concussion.

The one area where McG was wrong IMO was his treatment of D Bogue in the post AI press meeting but I've never heard McG's reasons.

Very intersting post about Donegal's opponents if they lose in Derry - It would be very interesting to see Donegal v Dublin and the clash of 2 totally opposing styles, later on.

I'd have loved to see Donegal 2012 v Dublin 2014.

Redsoxfan

Gary Neville wrote: »

Let's hope that Mark will do well in his exams and he may rediscover his appetite.

The Disillusioned One has played for his club the last few weekends. Appetite for the game seems ok.

Gary Neville wrote: »

The one area where McG was wrong IMO was his treatment of D Bogue in the post AI press meeting but I've never heard McG's reasons.

Bogue wrote The Book. There may be more to it than that and it might well have been a little petty, but I'm sure he had his reasons.

Redsoxfan

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

No doubt Jim will want to win Ulster but you would have to say if we get knocked out then a quarter final with Dublin is not completely out of the question - and wouldn't we like a shot at the Dubs!

We may well want a shot at them (be careful of what you wish for....), but the Quarter Finals are a separate affair as far as I know - the A and B groupings are only relevant for Qualifiers Rounds 1-4. But I'm open to correction on that point.

My prediction from a while back is that it will be a Dublin (Leinster Champions) v Kerry (Qualifier) in the Quarter-Final. That game is already fixed to be shown on Sky (i.e. the QF involving the Leinster Champs) and the outrage that a 'national institution' will not be shown on the national broadcaster will be popcorn worthy.

ProudDUB

Mark McHugh was just on Off The Ball. (He's down in Kerry doing a charity event with his Da, that Newstalk are covering.) He said that his decision to take a break from inter county football was not taken lightly & that he has been thinking about it since January. He said that he had no falling out with anyone. He just needs to take a break. He also mentioned wanting to focus on his exams.

He said that is looking forward to games with his club, doing some underage coaching and, going to the Down game to support his brother, who is still on the inter county panel. He sounded very relaxed and at ease. Podcast will probably be up on the Newstalk website tomorrow.

Redsoxfan

That's all there is to it then I guess.

Beagslife

ProudDUB wrote: »

Mark McHugh was just on Off The Ball. (He's down in Kerry doing a charity event with his Da, that Newstalk are covering.) He said that his decision to take a break from inter county football was not taken lightly & that he has been thinking about it since January. He said that he had no falling out with anyone. He just needs to take a break. He also mentioned wanting to focus on his exams.

He said that is looking forward to games with his club, doing some underage coaching and, going to the Down game to support his brother, who is still on the inter county panel. He sounded very relaxed and at ease. Podcast will probably be up on the Newstalk website tomorrow.

Here are the links. Off the Ball - part 1, Off the Ball - part 2


I haven't had a chance to listen to it all yet, but it sounds like a great show. The Summer is finally here!

MC

Nidgeweasel

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/all-ireland-semi-final-of-2011-looms-large-as-tactical-masterclass-1.1798914

Good article.

Redsoxfan

Right, here we go.

Not too many uncertainties as to who will start I would say. Michael, Colm and Paddy are certs in the forwards. McElhinney and Big Neil at midfield (assuming Big Neil is fit, otherwise Christy). Papa in goals, the two McGees, Frank, Karl and Tony.

Half forwards - I'd say Ryan McHugh is close to certain. Chirsty too, if he's not at midfield. Based on the league, you would have to think that MacNiallais will get the 12 shirt although I am not convinced. David Walsh could do a job there, but has missed a lot of time this year. The other option is Brick I guess. But, if Big Neil is fit, I'd say it will be Ryan, Christy and MacNiallais at 10-12.

One more position then, and that's in defence. I think we all know who the big question mark is over after the league - McLoone. Now, if we decide to put our best man marker (Lacey) on Lynch, Lacey will effectively be our 6, and you could play McLoone on the wing, where he was better against Down. Frank moves to the corner. Or, you could decide you need a bigger man to mark Lynch, and you stick Eamon McGee on him. This assumes we pay him any special heed, but I think we should. Derry aren't a one man team, but if we could keep Lynch quiet, then I take my chances on someone else (who?) beating us.

If Leo doesn't start, then I guess it's a choice between Paddy and Keaney. Pick the fittest man, I wouldn't mind seeing Keaney in there myself, but only on the assumption that Paddy isn't fit enough. If we keep McLoone at 6 and he picks up Lynch, then I just don't know.

Of course, in the past four years, we haven't (to me) focused too much on individual battles, we get our overall defensive set up right and it's a collective effort that has been successful. Rumours are out there that we will abandon the sweeper, which would make sense, although while I don't think we need to drop a half forward back, I'd still keep three men in our full back line to counter their two men inside.

Assuming SL McGoldrick is fit, then maybe R McHugh picks him up. Looking at what O'Gara did to McKeigue in the league final, you get excited at the thought of what Michael might be able to accomplish, but we'd probably be more confident if he was in better form.

Nothing I saw from Donegal during the league, or last year, would lead me to say that we should win this game. But, we were probably no worse during the league than we were in 2011 (Division Two) or 2012 (Division One, just avoided relegation, lost at home, to Laois), and the 2013 championship was out of character for a Jim McGuinness team vs 2010, 2011 and 2012.

So, on the basis that the league doesn't matter and we don't have the injuries this year that we did last year, then I am picking us to win on Sunday. We have better players than Derry and a better manager, more suited to the modern game. However if we don't improve on what we saw against Monaghan in Croke Park, then we are doomed.

Ceist_Beag

Redsoxfan wrote: »

So, on the basis that the league doesn't matter and we don't have the injuries this year that we did last year, then I am picking us to win on Sunday. We have better players than Derry and a better manager, more suited to the modern game. However if we don't improve on what we saw against Monaghan in Croke Park, then we are doomed.

I have a few concerns going into the game on Sunday. The biggest is that it looks like big Neil may not be fit to start and with Rory out it leaves us with a potential (untried) midfield pairing of Christy and McElhinney - we could get cleaned out at midfield. Also we have a lot of players who are not showing form. Murphy and Lacey are probably the biggest concern here. Redsoxfan you say we don't have the injuries we had last year but we could well be missing 4 key players at the throw in on Sunday from the starting 15 most people would have picked before the Monaghan game. Rory and McHugh are out obviously, but Paddy doesn't seem to have come on as quick as we hoped and big Neil is very doubtful so that has to be a concern.
I don't share the same optimism when I weigh everything up. Home advantage is a big thing and whilst I have complete faith in Jim having a plan for Sunday my main concern is if Derry get a run at us during the match we could find it very hard to hang in with them, especially if they dominate the middle of the field which I think is quite likely. We need our key men to perform or we have no chance so my call is that unless we get a return of 10 points from Murphy and McFadden we will lose on Sunday.

SM746

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I have a few concerns going into the game on Sunday. The biggest is that it looks like big Neil may not be fit to start and with Rory out it leaves us with a potential (untried) midfield pairing of Christy and McElhinney - we could get cleaned out at midfield. Also we have a lot of players who are not showing form. Murphy and Lacey are probably the biggest concern here. Redsoxfan you say we don't have the injuries we had last year but we could well be missing 4 key players at the throw in on Sunday from the starting 15 most people would have picked before the Monaghan game. Rory and McHugh are out obviously, but Paddy doesn't seem to have come on as quick as we hoped and big Neil is very doubtful so that has to be a concern.
I don't share the same optimism when I weigh everything up. Home advantage is a big thing and whilst I have complete faith in Jim having a plan for Sunday my main concern is if Derry get a run at us during the match we could find it very hard to hang in with them, especially if they dominate the middle of the field which I think is quite likely. We need our key men to perform or we have no chance so my call is that unless we get a return of 10 points from Murphy and McFadden we will lose on Sunday.

Unfortunately 100% agree with you. Regarding midfield and if we do line out as you expect, I fully expect Durcan to utilise the short kicks but I seen nothing during the league that gives me faith in them. Hope I'm wrong but I see Derry running out winners in a close game but one in which they never looked like losing.

Gary Neville

This game is very difficult to call. So many factors that could influence the outcome.

Donegal's first encounter with a Div 1 side - will they take time to come to terms with the intensity and speed. Cork made a very poor start against Tipp in the hurling league semi and the manager JBM put it down to facing Div 1 opposition for the 1st time.

How big a factor is home advantage ?

Derry took huge confidence from the league proper and the semi victory v Mayo (Derry down to 14 for much of the game) but how much damage was done by the Dublin Demolition.

Equally, Donegal had a relatively good league proper but the loss to Monaghan may damage confidence ?

The media have been hinting about unrest in the Donegal camp but we don't really know if there's any truth to this.

An intriguing fixture but the loser will really fancy their chances against anyone in their group (B)

Redsoxfan

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Redsoxfan you say we don't have the injuries we had last year but we could well be missing 4 key players at the throw in on Sunday from the starting 15 most people would have picked before the Monaghan game. Rory and McHugh are out obviously, but Paddy doesn't seem to have come on as quick as we hoped and big Neil is very doubtful so that has to be a concern.

On this - I accept that Rory and Paddy are losses and that McHugh on 2012 form is as well. But, it wasn't just that players were missing games last year, they were missing training etc. So I still think we are in better shape overall than we were at this time last year.

Keep in mind also that Christy and McElhinney are well used to playing midfield together at club level. And ok, it was only Louth, but Christy did ok there during the league. I'll be much happier if Big Neil is fit, but it's not the end of the world if he's not.

After doing a bit more research last night, I was kinda surprised to see that Cailean O'Boyle had scored 5-06 during the league and Emmett McGuckin had scored 3-11. Derry played nine games in total but O'Boyle only really featured in seven. Five goals in seven games is a fairly impressive return for O'Boyle and eight goals between the pair of them overall is a stat that caught my eye. Their half backs get up to take a score pretty well also.

Redsoxfan

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Home advantage is a big thing and whilst I have complete faith in Jim having a plan for Sunday my main concern is if Derry get a run at us during the match we could find it very hard to hang in with them, especially if they dominate the middle of the field which I think is quite likely.

Not sure that it is. Derry lost to Down and Cavan in Celtic Park last year. They beat Sligo in Owenbeg and then Down in Celtic Park. Our Championship record in Ballybofey was pretty awful until 2011. Home advantage didn't do Tyrone much good on Sunday. We should bring decent support. It's not a huge issue for me. Slight advantage to Derry.

Alvin Holler

Yeah, I don't see home advantage being that much of a factor, I'd say we might outnumber them on Sunday.

I've no idea what to expect from us on Sunday but if we can't beat Derry then we're not going to making much of an impact later on in the championship anyway.

Redsoxfan

Alvin Holler wrote: »

I've no idea what to expect from us on Sunday but if we can't beat Derry then we're not going to making much of an impact later on in the championship anyway.

Agreed, I don't really have any interest in a run in the Qualifiers. This could be the last chance at a third Ulster title for many of our more senior players, and hell, Michael Murphy might never win a third title if not this year. Win on Sunday and it's on. At this stage I don't see us as All Ireland contenders, but a good performance (and a win) on Sunday will get me thinking.

Tom Joad

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/all-ireland-semi-final-of-2011-looms-large-as-tactical-masterclass-1.1798914

Good article.

Very good article and highlights to me the good that Sky coverage could do for GAA with a more balanced view. Public opinion about that game was dictated by the three stooges in the studio's reaction immediately after it - and all they had was tired old clichés. Shame it took so long to bring a bit of balance to the discussion about that game and the way Donegal changed GAA.

harpsman

Tom Joad wrote: »

Very good article and highlights to me the good that Sky coverage could do for GAA with a more balanced view. Public opinion about that game was dictated by the three stooges in the studio's reaction immediately after it - and all they had was tired old clichés. Shame it took so long to bring a bit of balance to the discussion about that game and the way Donegal changed GAA.

Last bit might be going a bit far, even if I agree the reaction to that game was at a hysterical level. Fair enough saying youre happy to see a very defensive team gettin beat but the ol "wont somebody think of the children" stuff was embarrassing.
Personally Im not a fan of Donegals handpassing style(that goes back decades). I dont mind getting men behind the ball when you dont have it but I prefer a more direct style with the ball in hand.