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Donegal GAA Discussion Thread
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Nidgeweasel wrote: »A poor day. Psychologically more than anything because we are leaving the league on a negative note rather than a positive one. But it's up for JMG to turn that round. If there's one thing he's good at it's that!
Rory's suspension is niggling at me though. Our cup does not overflow at midfield does it.
How were the dubs in the flesh?
The Dubs were awesome, again. They are out on their own at this point.
Monaghan have our number. They barely tried a leg in O'Donnell Park, They continue to beat us when it matters. After 20 minutes today, we weren't at the races.0 -
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I watched the first half and part of the second half, and what struck me was how easily Donegal were opened up down the centre with long balls. I don't know who your centre back was, but he was dragged out of position, which allowed Finlay to come through and have the space to score a couple of nice points.
There was times when Donegal had three men on a Monaghan forward when the ball was pumped into the corner, but didn't make the decision to completely close the man down or leave him one on one, so it was an easy handpass for the Monaghan man to find a space player - the tackling seemed nearly unDonegal like, and slow build up didn't help.0 -
One thing - what has Conor Classon done to deserve an appearance at Croke Park? Ahead of say, Hugh McFadden and Marty O'Reilly? He didn't appear at all during the regular league season. Strange.
Luke Keaney did ok today. We weren't any worse off with him starting.0 -
rebel girl 15 wrote: »I watched the first half and part of the second half, and what struck me was how easily Donegal were opened up down the centre with long balls. I don't know who your centre back was, but he was dragged out of position, which allowed Finlay to come through and have the space to score a couple of nice points.
There was times when Donegal had three men on a Monaghan forward when the ball was pumped into the corner, but didn't make the decision to completely close the man down or leave him one on one, so it was an easy handpass for the Monaghan man to find a space player - the tackling seemed nearly unDonegal like, and slow build up didn't help.
Centre half back was Karl Lacey, at least at times. Monaghan were able to break at speed when we turned the ball over, we weren't able to set our defence.
Conor McManus is was outstanding. We were lucky that Kieran Hughes essentially had an off day, despite finishing with 1-1.
Today wasn't really any different from how we have played for the rest of the year. Meath should have beaten us, Down did and Monaghan were well able for us today, when it mattered.0 -
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I watched the game initially as a neutral, it didn't last long I usually have to support one team or another. I thought that some of the monaghan lads had a turn of speed that Donegal couldn't live with, it was very refreshing. They also had more scoring forwards.
I thought lacy was poor as was McFadden, Murphy was good out the field but did little up front.
I was right beside the boot in the balls trick from Rory Kavanagh and he had to go as the official was right beside him when it happened. In his defense Hughes had kicked his boot away just as Kavanagh was trying to pick it up.
I was very impressed with Lennon, at one stage just before the end of the first half won the ball against three Donegal players.
Monaghan look like the real deal, good mix of physical, skillful and pacey players. Ryan Wylie who was the black card sub got up and down the field and had a hand in a goal. Donegal didn't seem to pick him up at all,very uncharacteristic.
Donegal for the second year in a row looked flat. I hope they can pick it up for the championship as there are some fantastic players there but they looked tired and in some cases, old today.
I'd agree with a statement about that it can't just be tiredness, maybe they are set to peak later on, but at this stage I think Monaghan are the best team in Ulster and could go very far this year. A good dark horse imho.
It was a much better game than the Dublin Derry affair .0 -
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They also had more scoring forwards.
11 different scorers vs 4 for Donegal.I was right beside the boot in the balls trick from Rory Kavanagh and he had to go as the official was right beside him when it happened. In his defense Hughes had kicked his boot away just as Kavanagh was trying to pick it up.
Agree, can't defend that stupidity and McGuinness seemed annoyed. He did hint at appealing, but I'm not sure what grounds they could have to be honest. Striking with a boot (even if it isn't on your foot) is surely a red card offence?Monaghan look like the real deal, good mix of physical, skillful and pacy players. Ryan Wylie who was the black card sub got up and down the field and had a hand in a goal. Donegal didn't seem to pick him up at all,very uncharacteristic.
Donegal for the second year in a row looked flat. I hope they can pick it up for the championship as there are some fantastic players there but they looked tired and in some cases, old today.
I'd agree with a statement about that it can't just be tiredness, maybe they are set to peak later on, but at this stage I think Monaghan are the best team in Ulster and could go very far this year. A good dark horse imho.
Well, the simple truth of it is that based on the evidence, Monaghan are a better team than Donegal at this point. Assuming Tyrone beat Down, which isn't a given at all, then Monaghan have a huge test in their first game in Ulster in seven weeks time. They were cute enough for us last year, but not Tyrone. It will be a fascinating game. I thought Monghan were underrated after last year, but aside from their win over ourselves, their body of work wasn't that impressive. They were flat against Antrim and were quite fortunate to beat Cavan. Still, they are a well coached outfit, very physical and have plenty of lads capable of kicking a point from distance.
McGuinness said after "We tried to push on as best we could but the bodies weren't able to do it" which is concerning me to be honest. Derry were able to kick on against Mayo with 14 men a few weeks ago. It suggests we still have work to do on our fitness. Maybe that's how it was always going to be - we shouldn't be looking to peak on 25 May etc.
Of course, the whole 'hard training' excuse will be trotted out as a handy explanation for the flat performance yesterday. No-one will be able to say definitively what Donegal have been doing in training, so we will have to wait and see how we look come May/June/July to see the fruits of the supposed 'hard training'.
I suppose it's worth mentioning - the two most disappointing performances yesterday came from teams that are gearing up for a game in four weeks time. Dublin aren't in action again for six weeks, Monaghan in seven. No complaints, just an observation. The simple truth is that Monaghan and Dublin were/are just better than Donegal and Derry.0 -
He was provoked but it was an extremely stupid, cowardly thing to do.He is suspended. He was provoked of course, and a Monaghan player should have got a yellow if not a red for the same incident. No excuse however, experienced player and one of our best performers this year.
I could be wrong and I'd like to see it on tv tonight again but he was on one knee sorting out his boot when a Monaghan lad came walking/jogging towards him. It seemed like Kavanagh actually flinched as the guy went past him as though he was expecting to get a dig or something. It was then that Kav stood up, went face to face and the little melee started.
I cant see what a Monaghan player would get a yellow for except in the standard GAA circumstance of a ref bottling it and giving each player a yellow instead of having to make a proper decision. Yesterday a proper decision was made.
A stupid, stupid thing to do though and something that I cant see being appealed successfully. If only he would show as much fighting spirit when he's not hitting someone in the balls with a boot....0 -
I was sitting beside a group of Ardara people and they couldn't believe it when he came on. Apparently, he couldn't even nail down a starting spot for Ardara over the last year.One thing - what has Conor Classon done to deserve an appearance at Croke Park? Ahead of say, Hugh McFadden and Marty O'Reilly? He didn't appear at all during the regular league season. Strange0 -
Teams are running straight through us and we just don't seem to have the pace to live with them. Everything we do seems so laboured in comparison.
We had the excuse of being reigning champions last year but taking the last 15 months together, its beginning to look like four years of running ourselves in the ground has finally caught up with us.
Its starting to look worrying for us though and I'm saying that in the knowledge that hopefully I will have egg on my face later this summer for thinking we are nearing the end of the road with this team.0 -
2moreMinutes wrote: »He was provoked but it was an extremely stupid, cowardly thing to do.
I could be wrong and I'd like to see it on tv tonight again but he was on one knee sorting out his boot when a Monaghan lad came walking/jogging towards him. It seemed like Kavanagh actually flinched as the guy went past him as though he was expecting to get a dig or something. It was then that Kav stood up, went face to face and the little melee started.
I cant see what a Monaghan player would get a yellow for except in the standard GAA circumstance of a ref bottling it and giving each player a yellow instead of having to make a proper decision. Yesterday a proper decision was made.
A stupid, stupid thing to do though and something that I cant see being appealed successfully. If only he would show as much fighting spirit when he's not hitting someone in the balls with a boot....
His boot was thrown away or thrown at him - I can't exactly recall which, but I was watching it and it was more sinister than I think you are making out above. And we don't know exactly how much contact was made, it looked minimal from the footage. Whatever, Rory was stupid either way.
But honestly, I think some people are being harsh on Rory. This is generally out of character for him. He is missing what could well be his last game in the Ulster Championship and has been playing very well. I don't think anyone will be more disappointed than the player himself.0 -
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2moreMinutes wrote: »I was sitting beside a group of Ardara people and they couldn't believe it when he came on. Apparently, he couldn't even nail down a starting spot for Ardara over the last year.
I think it suprised everyone. Maybe he has been going well in training? Maybe he was able to offer more of a physical presence than others, something we really lacked yesterday? I was surprised to see him named on the subs in the first place, but I assumed that this was because Hugh McFadden wasn't fit. However, Hugh seemed fit enough in the warm up. Who knows.0 -
2moreMinutes wrote: »If only he would show as much fighting spirit when he's not hitting someone in the balls with a boot....
TBF I think that's a bit harsh. Rory has probably been our best player in the league. Agreed it was a very stupid thing to do but I wouldn't go any further than that tbh.
I think there are worrying signs for the team alright. Everything needs to be right for a team like Donegal to do well as we simply don't have the resources that other counties have. At the minute it's hard to see us being real contenders for the All Ireland. We may be good enough for the quarter finals again but I would worry that there is another beating awaiting us if we meet the wrong team at the wrong time. As you say 2more, I think the miles clocked up over the last few years might be catching up with some players and we haven't really brought enough new faces into challenging for a first 15 spot.0 -
As I said, I'd like to see it on tv again but my, right now, vague recollection is that he was in the process of getting his boot on, stood up and went face to face with the Monaghan fella. It was then that the mess started - the boot fell, it was kicked away, it was picked up, Rory used it as a WMD, the Monaghan lad went down like he was hit by a sniper from the back of the Hill and Kav got sent off.His boot was thrown away or thrown at him - I can't exactly recall which, but I was watching it and it was more siniter than I think you are making out above. And we don't know exactly how much contact was made, it looked minimal from the footage. Whatever, Rory was stupid either way.
He should be disappointed with himself as it was the absolute height of stupidity to do what he did, especially with the linesman standing right beside him.But honestly, I think some people are being harsh on Rory. This is generally out of character for him. He is missing what could well be his last game in the Ulster Championship and has been playing very well. I don't think anyone will be more disappointed than the player himself.0 -
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I 've seen it on the tv and I was in section 304 row G with nobody between the players and us. There were two Monaghan lads involved in messing with Rorys boot. At one stage when Rory went to pick it up Hughes stepped between him and the boot, then Hughes kicked the boot away, not far. Rory then picked up the boot and stood up face to face with Hughes, they exchanged words, the official arrived over to them, then Rory while holding the boot with both hands at waist height shoved or poked Hughes in the nuts with it. Hughes went down like a pile of bricks. I'd say it hurt it wasn't a tap , but he was wound up and he didn't burst the lad.2moreMinutes wrote: »As I said, I'd like to see it on tv again but my, right now, vague recollection is that he was in the process of getting his boot on, stood up and went face to face with the Monaghan fella. It was then that the mess started - the boot fell, it was kicked away, it was picked up, Rory used it as a WMD, the Monaghan lad went down like he was hit by a sniper from the back of the Hill and Kav got sent off.
He should be disappointed with himself as it was the absolute height of stupidity to do what he did, especially with the linesman standing right beside him.
It was one of things that sounds worse than it was imho. I don't know how cowardly it was , it was more of an attempt to be sly I doubt he expected the reaction from Hughes.0 -
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Unfortunately for Rory the tv replay doesn't show the messing around that went on beforehand.2moreMinutes wrote: »I was also right in front of it in 307. As I said, I'd like to see it on tv again as my recollection of the incident may be a little off.0 -
In fairness he didnt know the linesman was near him as the linesman was charging over from sideline to intervene-bit unlucky to be caught but I think he might gotten a retrospective suspension anyway a la Paddy Cambbell in 06. Obviously was very silly but sometimes its hard not to react in the heat of the moment. The most annoying thing is that it was a fairly meaningless match-personally I would have been happy enough with a decent performance.2moreMinutes wrote: »As I said, I'd like to see it on tv again but my, right now, vague recollection is that he was in the process of getting his boot on, stood up and went face to face with the Monaghan fella. It was then that the mess started - the boot fell, it was kicked away, it was picked up, Rory used it as a WMD, the Monaghan lad went down like he was hit by a sniper from the back of the Hill and Kav got sent off.
He should be disappointed with himself as it was the absolute height of stupidity to do what he did, especially with the linesman standing right beside him.
I think its clear we ve regressed from our 2012 level combined with other teams coming up to and surpassing our fitness level, which was our big advantage.
In terms of ponderous build up play-when was this not a problem? Even when we won the all ireland we werent exactly a dynamic attacking machine.0 -
I think its clear we ve regressed from our 2012 level combined with other teams coming up to and surpassing our fitness level, which was our big advantage.
In terms of ponderous build up play-when was this not a problem? Even when we won the all ireland we werent exactly a dynamic attacking machine.
We were a much more dynamic team in 2012 - fitness probably had a lot to do with that alright, but we should be as fit this year. One difference I guess we will have to face up to is that a lot of teams played into our hands in 2012, whereas more teams appear to be setting up defensively now and letting us have the ball. In 2012, only Cavan and Tyrone played against us this way.
We didn't have a great league campaign in 2012, but that was in Division One at least. The signs are definitely not encouraging this year, but in reality I think it's what happened last year in the championship that has spooked me the most. Sure, it would be nice to have won yesterday, or even to have been more competitive in defeat. But, I don't really see our chances in Ulster at least as any better or worse than they were before throw in yesterday.
I still have us as very marginal favourites for our game against Derry, and if we beat them, we will win the Ulster Semi-Final too. How we look in those games would influence my thinking for an Ulster Final against Tyrone/Monaghan.
But, in 2012 it was only really into the second half of the Ulster Final before we looked like contenders. It's still too early to write us off.0 -
Unfortunately for Rory the tv replay doesn't show the messing around that went on beforehand.
While it might justify his retaliation among ourselves, it isn't really relevent. I don't think provocation is grounds for an appeal?
Dunno what the McGuinness angle is, probably wants to review the footage to see if there was definitely contact.
Or maybe it is a tenchicality angle - you can't kick with a boot on an outstretched hand etc.
Either way, I have no issue with the straight red and suspension. It's disappoiting for him and a loss for us.0 -
2moreMinutes wrote: »I was also right in front of it in 307. As I said, I'd like to see it on tv again as my recollection of the incident may be a little off.
We weren't far away from each other then - I was 307 LL. Right beside the Monaghan section, having been at the DL/MO border last August. Both times beside oppostion supporters who were very hard to take, and some eejits from our own County.0 -
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One difference I guess we will have to face up to is that a lot of teams played into our hands in 2012, whereas more teams appear to be setting up defensively now and letting us have the ball.
Very much this. I remember literally guffawing before the semi-final when Counihan put Fintan Goold into the "half back line" in order to play the exact same tactics that had worked so well for Kerry in the previous game. It was just terrible stuff.0 -
In 307 GG myself which was a pleasant surprise given that the seats from the season ticket over the last few years have been poor enough (relatively speaking). At this point in time, I'll still accept any seat at all for the August BH weekend.:(We weren't far away from each other then - I was 307 LL. Right beside the Monaghan section, having been at the DL/MO border last August. Both times beside oppostion supporters who were very hard to take, and some eejits from our own County.0 -
We weren't far away from each other then - I was 307 LL. Right beside the Monaghan section, having been at the DL/MO border last August. Both times beside oppostion supporters who were very hard to take, and some eejits from our own County.
Have to say, I've always found Monaghan a civil bunch. Only my own experience but considering they've knocked us out of the championship now in 08,09,13 there was never much by way of stick from them. More content at their own team.
By comparison, I was shocked by the level of diatribe from the Mayo lot at the AI in 2012 and last year. Incredibly bitter. The old man has been around the game a long time he couldn't believe the carry on of them. We'd probably expected them to be similar to ourselves.
The Cavan supporters shocked me too, always had them down as being the same as Monaghan but they were extremely gobby chastising Donegal having just been knocked out themselves. Found it very strange.Very much this. I remember literally guffawing before the semi-final when Counihan put Fintan Goold into the "half back line" in order to play the exact same tactics that had worked so well for Kerry in the previous game. It was just terrible stuff.
Ha! Funny you mention that we were saying the same stuff at the time. Couldn't believe it.
We always felt we'd struggle if a team hit us in a blaze at the start for a couple of scores or were as dogged as we were. Unfortunately in 2013 we came a cropper for both those reasons.0 -
Nidgeweasel wrote: »Ha! Funny you mention that we were saying the same stuff at the time. Couldn't believe it.
We always felt we'd struggle if a team hit us in a blaze at the start for a couple of scores or were as dogged as we were. Unfortunately in 2013 we came a cropper for both those reasons.
I don't know whether you'll agree (I suspect not!) but I thought at the time that in a world where All Ireland quarter- and semi-finals were played over two legs Kerry and Cork would likely have learned enough the first day out to have Donegal's number the second day.
In both matches there was a certain look of the Munster teams having figured out how to cope with Doneyball in the last 15 minutes or so but had just left too much to do.
It was savage football ye played in '12 by the way, loved watching it.0 -
We were a much more dynamic team in 2012 - fitness probably had a lot to do with that alright, but we should be as fit this year. One difference I guess we will have to face up to is that a lot of teams played into our hands in 2012, whereas more teams appear to be setting up defensively now and letting us have the ball. In 2012, only Cavan and Tyrone played against us this way.
We look 'leggy' and seem to have lost something. I felt it all the way through last year and put it down to Post AI exertions and the late training schedule.
We've always had a bit of zip about us but now it's like we've got concrete boots on in a way. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is but our dynamism of a few years ago seems to be a world away at the minute. And that's the word I'd use too, dynamic.
Don't think it's down to fitness per se. Think they may have reached saturation point. Hard to say. It's very early to make any assumptions though as you say. Very much as case of wait and see.
The Derry game is really a mouthwatering prospect. I can't wait. It's always one of those games you look forward too (and dread in a way) but with their form in the league, McIvor, the questions hanging over ourselves, it's really setting up the championship for an explosive start.0 -
I don't know whether you'll agree (I suspect not!) but I thought at the time that in a world where All Ireland quarter- and semi-finals were played over two legs Kerry and Cork would likely have learned enough the first day out to have Donegal's number the second day.
In both matches there was a certain look of the Munster teams having figured out how to cope with Doneyball in the last 15 minutes or so but had just left too much to do.
And if my aunt had balls....:DIt was savage football ye played in '12 by the way, loved watching it.
Cheers -we loved watching it too. We're waiting hard on seeing it again.0 -
I don't know whether you'll agree (I suspect not!) but I thought at the time that in a world where All Ireland quarter- and semi-finals were played over two legs Kerry and Cork would likely have learned enough the first day out to have Donegal's number the second day.
In both matches there was a certain look of the Munster teams having figured out how to cope with Doneyball in the last 15 minutes or so but had just left too much to do.
It was savage football ye played in '12 by the way, loved watching it.
With respect to Conor Counihan, I don't think he'd have figured anything out over the space of a week. Wouldn't have him down as a tactician by any shape or means.
Kerry, who knows, Jacko's a cute one. They came close to equalising but we rode it out and Lacey got the insurance score. I'd have been more worried about the psychological impact of a 2nd day then the opposition having our number.
Is interesting that almost every team said they knew what they were coming up against but were still shocked and caught cold by our intensity that year. We were very much on a mission and had great momentum.
I'm genuinely glad you enjoyed it. I enjoyed watching us too, that Cork semi final is the best performance I've seen from a Donegal side in 30+ years. Operating at a different level. It's hard to understand really but that season was like a dream. We're not a successful county by any means but we are football daft and have always know we've had the talent. To see those lads achieve an AI playing as they did in the circumstances they did was magical. Glad to have seen it, and desperate for it again!0 -
Nidgeweasel wrote: »We look 'leggy' and seem to have lost something. I felt it all the way through last year and put it down to Post AI exertions and the late training schedule.
We've always had a bit of zip about us but now it's like we've got concrete boots on in a way. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is but our dynamism of a few years ago seems to be a world away at the minute. And that's the word I'd use too, dynamic.
Don't think it's down to fitness per se. Think they may have reached saturation point. Hard to say. It's very early to make any assumptions though as you say. Very much as case of wait and see.
The Derry game is really a mouthwatering prospect. I can't wait. It's always one of those games you look forward too (and dread in a way) but with their form in the league, McIvor, the questions hanging over ourselves, it's really setting up the championship for an explosive start.
Well last year, it was well documentented after the fact how many training sessions key players missed via injury and how many players were playing thorugh injury. Of course the aftermath of the All Ireland affected preparation, but Mayo were in a very similar place in terms of when they started training again.
This year, we are being told that 'we are in a better place' - other than Paddy McGrath and David Walsh, most other lads have been fit and training as far as I know.
Yeah, the Derry game this year is very like Tyrone game last year. We were nervous about that one too. It worked out ok, but was no real indication of where we were at.0 -
Nidgeweasel wrote: »Have to say, I've always found Monaghan a civil bunch. Only my own experience but considering they've knocked us out of the championship now in 08,09,13 there was never much by way of stick from them. More content at their own team.
By comparison, I was shocked by the level of diatribe from the Mayo lot at the AI in 2012 and last year. Incredibly bitter. The old man has been around the game a long time he couldn't believe the carry on of them. We'd probably expected them to be similar to ourselves.
The Cavan supporters shocked me too, always had them down as being the same as Monaghan but they were extremely gobby chastising Donegal having just been knocked out themselves. Found it very strange.
I've always had the opposite, and I spent a lot of time in both counties growing up. Have always found Monaghan fans to be obnoxious, you can add in 95 in Ballybofey to occasions when they felt the need to rub it in when beating Donegal. Same in Omagh in 07, but maybe I was just situated in a bad place.
Have been to many's a Cavan game over the years, and they have always been very gracious in victory and defeat. Have had great craic with their fans also.
Agreed on Mayo fans, wasn't there, but heard the behaviour of their fans last year was beyond belief for a GAA match.0 -
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Well last year, it was well documentented after the fact how many training sessions key players missed via injury and how many players were playing thorugh injury. Of course the aftermath of the All Ireland affected preparation, but Mayo were in a very similar place in terms of when they started training again.
This year, we are being told that 'we are in a better place' - other than Paddy McGrath and David Walsh, most other lads have been fit and training as far as I know.
Yeah, the Derry game this year is very like Tyrone game last year. We were nervous about that one too. It worked out ok, but was no real indication of where we were at.
We didn't really play well against Tyrone but got through it. There's alot to be said for getting through games when you're not playing well (down was the same) but as you rightly said, gave no indication as to where we were at. We just couldn't get through the gears last year. Like running in sand.
Just felt like we were waiting for that one moment to light the blue touchpaper, never came. Frank McGlynns goal chance in the ulster final might have done it. Who knows.
Credit to the opposition too though, didn't exactly make it easy. Monaghan were exceptional in that final. Was exactly the type of performance you wanted Donegal to give in the Armagh finals.0
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