Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

eddie73

Was at the game. Awful first half. Cavan were blessed at the end, they pulled it out of the fire, and looked genuinely dead and buried. But you have got to credit them for not giving in. I am at a loss as to why one of the best forwards in Ireland was left for long periods of the game coming deep up the field looking for the ball instead of sending it in early to him. We did put in a very good spell in the second half, and took some amazing scores.

Cavan need to find scoring form from nowhere. They were genuinely the worst full forwards that I have ever seen at inter county level in my life. They scored 1 point from play until the very end of the game when they netted late. Bizare stuff.

Redsoxfan

An extremely poor first half. We struggled to figure out a way to break down Cavan's defence, and their speed on the break really caused us issues. We were very sloppy in possession - and I am not talking about turning the ball over in the tackle, I am referring to kick and hand passing the ball directly to a Cavan player. I thought that Cavan should really have been out of sight at half time and I felt that we were only really in the game due to their poor finishing.

Second half was much better from Donegal. We finally injected a bit of pace into our attacking, managed to get support runners and overlaps going, were a bit more secure in possession. Again, Cavan's poor finishing kept us in the game, because we still weren't really scoring at a tremendous rate ourselves. Hugh McFadden and Ryan McHugh both scored points from distance, a tactic we should have copped on to much sooner imho, as whenever the ball went inside the Cavan 20, their defenders were excellent at swarming around the man in possession.

Missed opportunities for Donegal - both Paddy McBrearty and Ryan McHugh missed frees from around the 45. Neither chance was that easy, but neither was that difficult either. And it was interesting that they used two different kickers from basically the same spot, although maybe the tactic when Ryan kicked was to drop it in or around the square rather than over the bar. Willie Gillespie had two chances from wide right, again neither was easy, but on a night like last night, these are the margins - he was under no pressure from a tackler in both cases. The miss that hit the post was compounded by the fact that nobody from Donegal was in a position to react and Cavan were able to counter easily. Another time, I think it was Mulgrew, robbed a poor short Cavan kick out, drove forward (under pressure in fairness) and might have been thinking goal when he really should have fisted over the bar.

And of course, the second Cavan goal, you wonder how we allowed them to drive so far. Fear of the black card? Tiredness? Hard to know, but they should have been stopped once they caught the ball at midfield.

You could say that Hugh McFadden really should have been sent in around the square late late on, but we bet on Paddy and while he rose to meet the ball, he couldn't hold on to it. Also, Hugh was an important playmaker around midfield too, so maybe that was an issue, but at that stage, we needed to go for broke.

As to players, the two McHughs were heavily involved in our comeback, as was Marty O'Reilly (I thought him and Eoin McHugh had a poor enough first half). Hugh McFadden wasn't really able to out jump the Cavan lads at midfield, but he was able to break ball and disrupt, but we were frequently second best to the breaks, a testament to Cavan's hunger/determination. All in all I thought he did ok, still not sure where he is more of an asset to our seniors. Our two star forwards had a rough enough night. Paddy was disappointing to be honest. While I can accept he was well marked, the truth is that he did not execute well when he did get space. Jigger was frequently swarmed in possession, but fair play to the lad, he stuck at it and delivered a fine shoulder to win possession and set up a score in the second half. The rest of the lads played ok I guess, it was hard to tell, but I thought Ciaran Brennan, Conor Parke and Ciaran Thompson probably did ok without really showing what they are capable of at another level. You couldn't fault the effort of any player on either side to be honest - the football wasn't great at times, but that was more due to application than endeavor.

All in all, it was a better effort than last year in that we were able to wrest control of the game away from Cavan and take the lead, but ultimately, the outcome is exactly the same, a four point defeat and an Ulster title for Cavan.

Nidgeweasel

Winning is a habit and these U-21's from Cavan seem to have it. Our boys will be (hopefully) going on into a better senior team so wouldn't be overly worried about their development.

harpsman

Redsoxfan wrote: »

An extremely poor first half. We struggled to figure out a way to break down Cavan's defence, and their speed on the break really caused us issues. We were very sloppy in possession - and I am not talking about turning the ball over in the tackle, I am referring to kick and hand passing the ball directly to a Cavan player. I thought that Cavan should really have been out of sight at half time and I felt that we were only really in the game due to their poor finishing.

Second half was much better from Donegal. We finally injected a bit of pace into our attacking, managed to get support runners and overlaps going, were a bit more secure in possession. Again, Cavan's poor finishing kept us in the game, because we still weren't really scoring at a tremendous rate ourselves. Hugh McFadden and Ryan McHugh both scored points from distance, a tactic we should have copped on to much sooner imho, as whenever the ball went inside the Cavan 20, their defenders were excellent at swarming around the man in possession.

Missed opportunities for Donegal - both Paddy McBrearty and Ryan McHugh missed frees from around the 45. Neither chance was that easy, but neither was that difficult either. And it was interesting that they used two different kickers from basically the same spot, although maybe the tactic when Ryan kicked was to drop it in or around the square rather than over the bar. Willie Gillespie had two chances from wide right, again neither was easy, but on a night like last night, these are the margins - he was under no pressure from a tackler in both cases. The miss that hit the post was compounded by the fact that nobody from Donegal was in a position to react and Cavan were able to counter easily. Another time, I think it was Mulgrew, robbed a poor short Cavan kick out, drove forward (under pressure in fairness) and might have been thinking goal when he really should have fisted over the bar.

And of course, the second Cavan goal, you wonder how we allowed them to drive so far. Fear of the black card? Tiredness? Hard to know, but they should have been stopped once they caught the ball at midfield.

You could say that Hugh McFadden really should have been sent in around the square late late on, but we bet on Paddy and while he rose to meet the ball, he couldn't hold on to it. Also, Hugh was an important playmaker around midfield too, so maybe that was an issue, but at that stage, we needed to go for broke.

As to players, the two McHughs were heavily involved in our comeback, as was Marty O'Reilly (I thought him and Eoin McHugh had a poor enough first half). Hugh McFadden wasn't really able to out jump the Cavan lads at midfield, but he was able to break ball and disrupt, but we were frequently second best to the breaks, a testament to Cavan's hunger/determination. All in all I thought he did ok, still not sure where he is more of an asset to our seniors. Our two star forwards had a rough enough night. Paddy was disappointing to be honest. While I can accept he was well marked, the truth is that he did not execute well when he did get space. Jigger was frequently swarmed in possession, but fair play to the lad, he stuck at it and delivered a fine shoulder to win possession and set up a score in the second half. The rest of the lads played ok I guess, it was hard to tell, but I thought Ciaran Brennan, Conor Parke and Ciaran Thompson probably did ok without really showing what they are capable of at another level. You couldn't fault the effort of any player on either side to be honest - the football wasn't great at times, but that was more due to application than endeavor.

All in all, it was a better effort than last year in that we were able to wrest control of the game away from Cavan and take the lead, but ultimately, the outcome is exactly the same, a four point defeat and an Ulster title for Cavan.

Woulda been nice to win,but sounds like Cavan bit stronger. Sounded like we coulda gone 3 near end and maybe went for goal,and yes cant believe we let them in for a goal when they were really struggling for scores.
Didnt realise Marty (O) Reilly so young-hasnt impressed me for seniors but potential there maybe.
Never heard Martin McHugh as excited as when the 2 McHughs kicked those late points.

2moreMinutes

Was following on Twitter and it seemed that we kicked a lot of bad wides as well as dropping a few efforts short. The last few minutes were so frustrating following it on Twitter so can only imagine how depressing they were to witness.:(

eddie73

We should have won, despite the errors, and the poor first half. The game was there to be seen out. A wee bit of inexperience maybe, but the reality is that we were 2 up with a minute to go. We had only 2 subs on for the game. Surly that was the time to empty the bench and keep Cavan from steaming up the pitch. All water under the bridge now, I hope some of the lads make it on to the seniors, a few are already, and hopefully they can get rid of some of the disappointment from last night in other results later in the year.

2moreMinutes

eddie73 wrote: »

We should have won, despite the errors, and the poor first half. The game was there to be seen out. A wee bit of inexperience maybe, but the reality is that we were 2 up with a minute to go. We had only 2 subs on for the game. Surly that was the time to empty the bench and keep Cavan from steaming up the pitch. All water under the bridge now, I hope some of the lads make it on to the seniors, a few are already, and hopefully they can get rid of some of the disappointment from last night in other results later in the year.

In relation to some (more) making the step-up to senior level, I was reading Maxi's interview in todays/tomorrows Donegal News and its kinda saddening the way he described how this is the end of an era for this team in that its the last time they will be playing together. To quote a little bit of the article:

"This group of players will never be together again. Some of them will be senior players for a long time to come but for others its the end of the road and they'll never wear the county jersey again."


He was also fairly non-committal about his own future which isnt a surprise given the night that was in it but he did stress how difficult a year it has been.

Redsoxfan

2moreMinutes wrote: »

"This group of players will never be together again. Some of them will be senior players for a long time to come but for others its the end of the road and they'll never wear the county jersey again."

I think I made this point earlier during a discussion about Senior v U-21 in this thread. We can't and shouldn't look at any age level as just a stepping stone to Senior and nothing else. That's why last night was a big disappointment (and 2010, and last year) - the likes of Paddy McBrearty and the McHughs etc will get plenty of time playing for Donegal, and hopefully the odd Ulster title and if we're very fortunate, a bit more. For the rest of them, this is it.

I have the team from 2010, I must dig it out and we can see who has disappeared since.

As to Maxi's future, well, he does have a fairly big club job and I suspect he might only stay on with the U-21s if our Senior manager isn't around next year.

Redsoxfan

eddie73 wrote: »

We should have won, despite the errors, and the poor first half. The game was there to be seen out. A wee bit of inexperience maybe, but the reality is that we were 2 up with a minute to go. We had only 2 subs on for the game. Surly that was the time to empty the bench and keep Cavan from steaming up the pitch. All water under the bridge now, I hope some of the lads make it on to the seniors, a few are already, and hopefully they can get rid of some of the disappointment from last night in other results later in the year.

Just on inexperience, Donegal had nine players playing last night (either starting or playing as a sub) who played in the 2013 Ulster Final, whereas Cavan had five. So I don't really think inexperience was a factor. Fitness, naivety, less determination/mental strength than Cavan, I don't know, but I don't buy into the inexperience factor.

Your point about the subs is a good one, it shows a lack of trust in the squad perhaps.

Lemlin

harpsman wrote: »

Woulda been nice to win,but sounds like Cavan bit stronger. Sounded like we coulda gone 3 near end and maybe went for goal,and yes cant believe we let them in for a goal when they were really struggling for scores.
Didnt realise Marty (O) Reilly so young-hasnt impressed me for seniors but potential there maybe.
Never heard Martin McHugh as excited as when the 2 McHughs kicked those late points.

What had McHugh to say at the end? I'd just be interested to hear because IMO he is always overly critical of Cavan.

Last year he made a few comments which the local media down here picked up on e.g. That Donegal had lost the game but would be happier because even though they had lost they had more players capable of stepping up to senior level whereas he didn't see any in the Cavan team. This was despite the fact that Cavan had 4 established seniors playing last year - Clarke, McLoughlin, Flanagan and Brady.

He also made a comment a few years back that Cavan were the worst team in Ulster, despite the fact that we had just beaten Fermanagh!

Lemlin

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Just on inexperience, Donegal had nine players playing last night (either starting or playing as a sub), whereas Cavan had five. So I don't really think inexperience was a factor. Fitness, naivety, less determination/mental strength than Cavan, I don't know, but I don't buy into the inexperience factor.

Your point about the subs is a good one, it shows a lack of trust in the squad perhaps.

Do you mean nine players with senior experience for Donegal and five for Cavan here?

Redsoxfan

Lemlin wrote: »

Do you mean nine players with senior experience for Donegal and five for Cavan here?

No, I edited my post to clarify - I was referring to the 2013 Ulster Final line ups.

Regarding senior, Ryan McHugh and Paddy McBrearty and Marty Reilly have fairly extensive senior intercounty experience at this stage. Jigger and Hugh McFadden have been involved this year. I'd also look at our team on Wednesday and think that the clubs most of our players come from (Eunans, Naomh Conaill, Kilcar) are all senior and these lads would have experience of fairly big games also.

For the most part, I thought Cavan looked the better coached/prepared team on Wednesday night, although that's just based on the 63 minutes I saw from both teams this year and not on watching them in every game or anything so it might be unfair on our own lads and management to say that.

harpsman

Lemlin wrote: »

What had McHugh to say at the end? I'd just be interested to hear because IMO he is always overly critical of Cavan.

Last year he made a few comments which the local media down here picked up on e.g. That Donegal had lost the game but would be happier because even though they had lost they had more players capable of stepping up to senior level whereas he didn't see any in the Cavan team. This was despite the fact that Cavan had 4 established seniors playing last year - Clarke, McLoughlin, Flanagan and Brady.

He also made a comment a few years back that Cavan were the worst team in Ulster, despite the fact that we had just beaten Fermanagh!

He said Cavan were the biggest shower of gob****es hed ever come accross and that hes happy cos they ll never win anything worthwhile.

overshoot

good to see the hurlers still progressing, big win over fingal today.
this is the only report iv seen so far altho not much to it.
up to div 2b now and try to retain the nicky rackard cup.

im a bit unsure how the hurling system works, does this mean they play in the christy ring cup next year?

Redsoxfan

There's a report on the Democrat site dripping with guff.

Not sure how the hurling works, I thought the winners of the Nicky Rackard play in the Christy Ring the following year?

Fair play to the hurlers, would be great to see a Donegal v Mayo double header in the league next year but that makes too much sense and so won't happen.

overshoot

ha just read it, not sure if he could have fitted in any more adjectives! ah no harm though

they won the nicky rackard last year though so i assumed it was done on league position. iv given up trying to figure it out it at this stage.

yea would be good to see the double header, but yep knowing the powers that be it wont happen

Redsoxfan

So apparently no promotion to Ring last year. 2014 Rackard champions will play off with Ring bottom team.

Ceist_Beag

Hurling really is about protecting the big guns isn't it! Fair play to Donegal for getting promoted despite the best efforts of those making up the rules. I feel really sorry for Kerry who lost out against Offaly in their relegation/promotion final despite winning all 5 games in the league. It really is a terrible format, having to play off against the higher division relegation candidates after winning your league.

harpsman

Saw highlights of the U21 final. kicked some nice scores in a defensive game. Think they might have eased up after going 2 ahead, but thats football. Lets hope some of them can make a big contribution to the seniors over the coming years.

SM746

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=214352

More tension building up over this. Few mates who are affected very, very annoyed over it!

harpsman

SM746 wrote: »

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=214352

More tension building up over this. Few mates who are affected very, very annoyed over it!

Gettin ridiculous alright. Personally i think we should have a unified club and intercounty fixture calender starting in Feb and ending on the October bank holiday-maybe with the club final. No matches in November,December or Jan.
If a player has to play say a county final one sunday and a intercounty championship match the following, so be it. Better playing 2 weeks in a row in july than 6 games in a fortnight in october.

Ceist_Beag

I think it will have to be resolved soon alright. I see no reason why they can't follow the rugby model whereby league matches are played when county players are unavailable and championship matches are scheduled when the county will probably not be playing with the caveat that they can be swapped for a league match if the county clashes. Completely agree with harpsman that the winter months should be free from matches (there are enough under age and college matches during this time as it is).
I think ultimately it will resemble something like the rugby season where league=rabo and championship=heineken and the intercounty schedule will be more tightly scheduled (i.e. rather than one or two intercounty each weekend there will be 2 weekends per month with intercounty and a raft of games played each weekend).
As with everything in the GAA it is moving very slowly but hopefully clubs can start to apply real pressure on headquarters to take this seriously.

Ceist_Beag

Good article by Devenney on the issue here

Redsoxfan

Good win for the minors over Armagh today. They now face Tyrone in the league final now (already beat them in the group). Match report suggests Armagh set up defensively and took the lead, but Donegal dominated from half time on. Winning is a good habit.

As to the club vs county issue, it's depressing. I have no real club affiliation at this stage, but agree that their treatment is completely unacceptable, especially the non-county player. We don't seem to be learning however, the same issues are coming up year after year.

I do wonder why the request to 'star'/postpone the Friday games was made so late in the day. I have to believe that Jim McGuinness made the call late in the day because of what happened/what he saw/heard in Portugal (note that I haven't heard anything, I am just speculating that training was hard etc). For me, the bottom line is that these games should have been 'starred' much earlier, once the training camp was decided on.

For me, one solution to the league fixtures issue is that we go for a regional divisional set up so that there is no promotion/relegation - this is the main thing that seems to lead to clubs not wanting to play without their county players. I can see the issues with this approach, but to me, the most important thing is that the non-county club players get regular games with fixed dates and that the county manager gets enough time to prepare his players as he sees fit.

I've seen some people on Twitter commend Waterford on their stance on club fixtures. Strangely, most of the comment in the Waterford thread seems pretty negative on that approach. And, if Donegal took the same stance back in the autumn, would Jim McGuinness still be manager?

I hope that a solution can be found that makes most of the people happy most of the time. But I fear that we are a long way off that day at the moment.

Redsoxfan

Scheduling at intercounty level is a joke by the way. Everything is drawn out too long, the league, the provincial championships.

There should be no free weekends in the National League and all Ulster Championship Quarter-Finals should take place on the same weekend - two on a Saturday, two on a Sunday if you like.

The GAA scheduling at intercounty level needs to facilitate fair scheduling at club level.

harpsman

@ redsoxfan. Agreed about the scheduling. Eg the football championship will start in a few wks with new york(gaa must be the only walk of life where new york is a byword for non event) and maybe wicklow. Dont know if id have all 4 ulster qfs same weekend maybe sat and sun of 2 w/es.

Redsoxfan

Michael Murphy didn't tog for Glenswilly today. Democrat reports that it's a groin strain. Dunno if we should risk him next weekend.

Redsoxfan

Encouraging news on Paddy McGrath - played for Ardara and even scored a point.

SM746

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Michael Murphy didn't tog for Glenswilly today. Democrat reports that it's a groin strain. Dunno if we should risk him next weekend.

100% agree - Derry too important so need him firing on all cylinders for that! great news on Paddy and hopefully he ready for Derry or at least there to give us options as ideally I would like lacey out on lynch to try put him on the back foot

Redsoxfan

Seems Leo McLoone returned from Portugal injured as well.

Awaiting reports from the other games played today to see if anyone else was missing. All other Glenswilly, St Eunans, Naomh Conaill and Kilcar County players played. Ryan McHugh scored 0-5 and Paddy McBrearty hit 1-5 for Kilcar.