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Free travel passes not to be touched in budget - Minister Burton

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    #302
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    One major area of concern,it appears,is the numbers of non-OAP related FTP's and their higher than average issuance rate which,when Spouse/Partner/Companion entitlement is added,was being raised by a variety of operators Countrywide.

    I thought that this was due to fraud and the mass production of counterfeit passes?


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    #303
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    True.

    Interestingly,the only FTP area which was running on a well ordered and effective basis was the 32 County Scheme run in conjunction with Translink.

    That scheme is only available to people over 66 years of age, no spouse or companian passes. It is a smart card and requires to be presented to driver/ticket issuer. It is checked on every journey.

    Earlier today, I saw a gentleman show his pass to the driver before he even got on the bus and promptly put it back in his pocket before his foot touched the step. I have no doubt he had a valid FTP that he was entitled to, but could the driver possible check it without making a fuss?

    If drivers do not, or can not, check these passes, no wonder fraud is a problem. If drivers had to issue a zero value ticket (as occurs on IR), it would reduce fraud - only the the brass-necked would try it on.


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    #304
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Frankly I would caution against taking what a driver says as gospel.

    Plenty of options could be under consideration, but may never see the light of day.

    Every company has its own rumour network, and in general they are often way off the mark.

    We'll have to wait and see what the ongoing review of the scheme produces.

    Expecting Bus Eireann to make an official comment when a decision hasn't been made is a bit daft - they'll communicate changes (if any) to us in due course when a decision is finally taken.

    If you read my post, it would clearly show it was not taken as gospel hence why I did not post the costs/dates also said.

    The ball is with the Dep SW at the minute, it would be a big embarrassment to the Government if they were to charge after they stated no changes and it would be similar to the medical card mess earlier this year and can't see either party wanting something like that repeated.

    Increase funding or we will make up the revenue gap!

    Operators are beginning to charge up to 50% of the fare on more routes started/taken over the last while.


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    #305
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Jamie2k9 on all recent services started by private operators there is no concession and free travel passes are not accepted at all!


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    #306
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    If you read my post, it would clearly show it was not taken as gospel hence why I did not post the costs/dates also said.

    The ball is with the Dep SW at the minute, it would be a big embarrassment to the Government if they were to charge after they stated no changes and it would be similar to the medical card mess earlier this year and can't see either party wanting something like that repeated.

    Increase funding or we will make up the revenue gap!

    Operators are beginning to charge up to 50% of the fare on more routes started/taken over the last while.



    Frankly I wouldn't even bother posting "what a driver says".


    It's only heresay or rumour - ultimately the company/DSP will make a statement and only then will we know what is actually happening.


    I've read so many threads here over the years where people have posted this sort of thing only for it to turn out to be hogwash.


    In the meantime you only end getting people concerned unnecessarily.


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    #307
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Frankly I wouldn't even bother posting "what a driver says".


    It's only heresay or rumour - ultimately the company/DSP will make a statement and only then will we know what is actually happening.


    I've read so many threads here over the years where people have posted this sort of thing only for it to turn out to be hogwash.


    In the meantime you only end getting people concerned unnecessarily.

    People shouldn't take what is posted on a internet forum as gospel either.

    My post clearly states it was not certain.
    Jamie2k9 on all recent services started by private operators there is no concession and free travel passes are not accepted at all!

    I was referring to local bus routes which DSP holders pay a reduced fare on many services when new operators took over since other operators dropped them. They are probably not involved with the scheme but are applying a surcharge for pass holders.


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    #308
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    People shouldn't take what is posted on a internet forum as gospel either.

    My post clearly states it was not certain.

    No they shouldn't, but I see no value whatsoever in posting what is effectively "office gossip".

    Time and time again here we've seen new accounts set up and nonsense posted by agitated employees at times of disputes, and other times stories of drivers telling passengers that their route was being cancelled but failing to tell them that a more than adequate replacement was being provided.

    As I said above, better to let it go in one ear and out the other rather than posting it here.


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    #309
    jodaw
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭jodaw


    Bus ****


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    #310
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    That scheme is only available to people over 66 years of age, no spouse or companian passes. It is a smart card and requires to be presented to driver/ticket issuer. It is checked on every journey.

    Earlier today, I saw a gentleman show his pass to the driver before he even got on the bus and promptly put it back in his pocket before his foot touched the step. I have no doubt he had a valid FTP that he was entitled to, but could the driver possible check it without making a fuss?

    If drivers do not, or can not, check these passes, no wonder fraud is a problem. If drivers had to issue a zero value ticket (as occurs on IR), it would reduce fraud - only the the brass-necked would try it on.

    A well trodden path of a post Sam Russell...well trodden...;)

    The points regarding Drivers checking passes have been done to death,however the introduction of the Chipped DSP Free Travel card now automates this very process.

    When fully enabled,(Still hearing Q4 2015) this means that all 3 forms of Dublin Public Transport,Bus-Dart/Rail-Luas will require interaction from the DSP customer.

    One of the lesser publicised elements of the DSP's new format is that the Dept will set-up and maintain an active Hot-List of FTP's which are invalid for whatever reason,which will result in an Invalid Alarm from the Validator.

    Equally,as stated previously,any Companion,spouse or partner will have to take a ticket to travel Free of Charge with the FTP holder.

    These elements alone represent a gigantic step-forward in monitoring the scheme,but it remains to be seen if it can prevent the demise of the original ethos of FREE Travel,and replace it with something else.

    Of some interest is the wording of the NTA's latest announcement regarding the NEW PSO Route 975......

    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/route-975-cavan-arvagh-longford-bus-service-commences/
    Adult and concessionary Fares have been set by the Authority. As the Free Travel Scheme operated by the Department of Social Protection is closed to new entrants, holders of Free Travel Passes wishing to travel on the service will now be required to pay 50% of the appropriate Adult Fare.

    Putting aside semantic debate on what the eventual outcome of these alterations will be,the current REALITY is that The DSP FREE Travel Scheme is NO LONGER ACCEPTED on Public Service Obligation routes.....That stands in direct contravention to the Thread Title,as espoused by Minister Joan Burton ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #311
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    As the Free Travel Scheme operated by the Department of Social Protection is closed to new entrants,
    What does this mean - surely anyone over 66 or on disability still get a pass?
    Or are the entrants the bus companies?


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    #312
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    People shouldn't take what is posted on a internet forum as gospel either.

    My post clearly states it was not certain.



    I was referring to local bus routes which DSP holders pay a reduced fare on many services when new operators took over since other operators dropped them. They are probably not involved with the scheme but are applying a surcharge for pass holders.

    They are not applying a surcharge for pass holders but in fact giving them a concessionary fare.

    The only two exceptions are the PSO routes created by the NTA to cater for a specific local need after much local political interference.


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    #313
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Peppa Pig wrote: »
    What does this mean - surely anyone over 66 or on disability still get a pass?
    Or are the entrants the bus companies?

    The entrants in this case are any bus companies. There are NO more companies being allowed join the scheme which is why The likes of the aircoach express cork and other services don't take free travel passes at all.


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    #314
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They are not applying a surcharge for pass holders but in fact giving them a concessionary fare.

    The only two exceptions are the PSO routes created by the NTA to cater for a specific local need after much local political interference.

    Correct Foggy,but it must be pointed out that it is a concessionary fare on a Public Service Obligation route,a classification which up until now,had accepted the FREE Travel Pass at face value...ie: FREE.

    If these routes were Commerical,then the 50% clould be described as a "Discount",however they are not,so I would suggest that "Surcharge" is indeed an appropriate term in these cases.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #315
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Correct Foggy,but it must be pointed out that it is a concessionary fare on a Public Service Obligation route,a classification which up until now,had accepted the FREE Travel Pass at face value...ie: FREE.

    If these routes were Commerical,then the 50% clould be described as a "Discount",however they are not,so I would suggest that "Surcharge" is indeed an appropriate term in these cases.
    Not on most of the routes that jamie2k9 was referring to. There are many many routes around the country operated by private bus and taxi companies which have never given free travel but have offered pensioners and disabled passengers discounts. These are not PSO routes nor are they dictated to by the nta. Most decided not to accept the free travel money because it would not have been worth their while for the money and paperwork involved.


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    #316
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Oh Foggy,

    Clutching at straws

    People on some local bus routes no longer have a free ride when they present there travel pass to the bus driver. Hope that makes it crystal clear.

    By the way heard from another bus driver today, all expressway service that don't serve an area of Dublin will be scarped from Monday. Remember its gospel and 100% correct!

    Finally for the backseat mod or two, if there is an issue with my post then do what the forum rules state.....instead of applying for a job which has not being advertised.


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    #317
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    For the benefit of the auld gossips, It is two measly routes that carry so few passengers one was dropped by the operator within its first year of operation because he could not make any money from it at all! These routes/PSO contracts were in answer to local band-Wagoneers who were whipping locals into a frenzy over losing a service which could easily have been replaced by a twice weekly rural service like thousands of other rural villages have all over the country and iirc the locals were offered just such a service at the time. It is ridiculous to paint it as some mystical sign of things to come unless you are prepared to post pictures of yourselves in mystic Meg outfits with all the fortune telling trappings.


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