Free travel passes not to be touched in budget - Minister Burton

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Let's be realistic - that would be political suicide.

In time it may be marginally scaled back (such as peak hour in the cities), but no political party would ever abolish it.

monument

Maybe she should be forced to pay the transport companies what they are owed? What's the underpayment again?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Maybe she should be forced to pay the transport companies what they are owed? What's the underpayment again?

I imagine there has been an underpayment since day #1!

road_high

Burton is an absolute disaster in SW. At a time when the whole system is ripe for reform she has made no attempt to reform. Just increase the taxes on the rest of us gob****es. God forbid soem of the highest SW rate in the world be cut or scaled regardless of whether you've worked a day in your life or not.
Sorry to go off in a tangent but that Minister is woeful.

AlekSmart

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Don't be shocked Fred....Making a statement such as this at the Age Action Ireland gig is simply stating the truth.

There never was a threat to the Old Age Pensioners Free Travel Pass.
The reason is very simple,Pass Holders of Pensionable age account for less than HALF of the total number of Free Travel Documents in circulation.

Had various politicians refrained from tinkering with the original ethos of the Free Travel Scheme,then it would not be in the state of flux it currently is....:(

BenShermin

Can't be sure if I heard it properly or not tbh, but I thought RTÉ reported that OAPs would not lose their free travel. Surely this leaves the door open for reform of the pass for any non-OAPs?

No Pants

There's plenty of room for reform. For example, my Da has a car and a bike. He has a free travel pass because of his age. He doesn't need it and I think that anyone who can afford to run a car shouldn't have a pass. Maybe it could be linked to vehicle ownership and/or motor tax. That way everyone can travel and we don't hear whinging about pensioners being trapped in their homes.

One thing reforms would need to be careful of is EU legislation. My Ma wasn't entitled to a pass, but she got one because she would have been entitled to one in the UK.

Banjoxed

BenShermin wrote: »

Can't be sure if I heard it properly or not tbh, but I thought RTÉ reported that OAPs would not lose their free travel. Surely this leaves the door open for reform of the pass for any non-OAPs?

That was the way I heard it. OAPs passes may be safe but the rest may be in play.

BowWow

"The minister also confirmed that eligible people will not lose their entitlement to the travel pass."

There is the key word.........

She didn't say there would be no change to the rules of eligibility.

Tarabuses

No Pants wrote: »

There's plenty of room for reform. For example, my Da has a car and a bike. He has a free travel pass because of his age. He doesn't need it and I think that anyone who can afford to run a car shouldn't have a pass. Maybe it could be linked to vehicle ownership and/or motor tax. That way everyone can travel and we don't hear whinging about pensioners being trapped in their homes.

One thing reforms would need to be careful of is EU legislation. My Ma wasn't entitled to a pass, but she got one because she would have been entitled to one in the UK.

If your Da doesn't use his travel pass then he is not costing us anything. It would probably cost more to monitor a system that would deprive him of it.

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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As I said above - there is no way that the OAP pass will be touched (except possibly to reduce peak hour availability).

Any political party that sought to do so would be committing political suicide.

No Pants

Tarabuses wrote: »

If your Da doesn't use his travel pass then he is not costing us anything. It would probably cost more to monitor a system that would deprive him of it.

He does use it occasionally. My point was that he has other transport options open to him. He's also able to afford a bus ticket when he decides that's more convenient.

How is the use of the pass currently tracked?

Fred Swanson

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No Pants

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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So we can't prove one way or another how much the scheme costs.

Fred Swanson

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Losty Dublin

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Even if they did track use they'd still receive a flat fee from the DSP for providing the facility of free travel so it would be a futile exercise.

Daemos

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Pretty sure BE does. Any time I've gotten on with a travel pass holder they key something into the ticketing machine

markpb

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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As far as I know, DB drivers are meant to record all FP holders on the ticket machine but they don't need to issue them a ticket. DB know the data from this isn't reliable so reliable so they uplift the numbers by a certain percentage. Of course, this doesn't record what type of ticket the FP holder would have used, only the fact that they travelled.

murphaph

Why are pensioners given free travel based purely on reaching an arbitrary age? Where I live there's no free travel based on such criteria. Pensioners can avail of discounted travel, but not free of charge. Free of charge is crazy....it leads to unnecessary journeys on a massive scale. Germany has a graduated system of disability. A pal of mine is 60% disabled, so he gets a free pass but cannot bring a partner. A completely blind person would be deemed 100% disabled and could bring a partner.

dowlingm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Even if they did track use they'd still receive a flat fee from the DSP for providing the facility of free travel so it would be a futile exercise.

If those companies wanted to advocate for change then having reasonable good data about use would be advisable I'd have thought.

Owryan

Said it before and i ll say it again. Take the FTP off everyone and only give it to those who need it, even then it should only be subsidised.

Im saying that as someone who has one.

AlekSmart

dowlingm wrote: »

If those companies wanted to advocate for change then having reasonable good data about use would be advisable I'd have thought.

True Dowlingm,but that would presuppose those Companies being entirely independent Corporate Entities,which the CIE companies are most certainly NOT.

Attempts to find any hard data on the Free Travel Scheme itself or it's Operational Methodology will generally deliver disappointing results.

Even recent Dáil Committee appearances by the DSP's highest-level Management resulted in lots of "approximates" and associated fudgey stuff when statistics were mentioned.

The Free Travel Scheme,and the associated other "Free Schemes" of the Dept of Social Protection remain,essentially,Political Tools utilized to keep the masses docile.

The last (and perhaps ONLY) independent study of these Schemes dates from 2000 and comes from TCD's Policy Institute.

http://www.tcd.ie/policy-institute/assets/pdf/BP5_Quinn_Free_Schemes.pdf

The Free Travel Scheme is in section 3,however the study bears reading in it's entirety as,even 13 years later it can be a revealing document,if only to confirm,for example,that CIE have raised significant issues over the years,all of which,in our magic kingdom, went unaddressed.

loyatemu

if the number of passes was greatly reduced, or a nominal fee introduced per journey, we'd likely see a major reduction in usage. this would then result in a cut in services - sure the transport companies would be saving money, but only by cutting back.

Net result: fewer, less frequent services for paying customers. Or have I got this wrong?

foggy_lad

loyatemu wrote: »

if the number of passes was greatly reduced, or a nominal fee introduced per journey, we'd likely see a major reduction in usage. this would then result in a cut in services - sure the transport companies would be saving money, but only by cutting back.

Net result: fewer, less frequent services for paying customers. Or have I got this wrong?

With fewer less frequent services comes less staff required and even more cuts to salary and payments for shift allowance sick pay etc. Also by that stage the government would probably let the CIE companies fold rather than let striking workers have their way when everyone else is ebnduring much greater cuts.

RonanM123

IE should have a cap on number of pass holders per service, 20-25 seems reasonable and be allowed to reject them on busy services where online bookings are high or even just allowed to say no pass holders can travel on this service.

They wouldn't be doing anything wrong at the department of social welfare can't do much and our TD's can't either.

There should of being some reform made to people who can receive passes, Joan Burton is a disgrace and has done next to nothing to stop fraud since she has being in office over 2.5 years. Hopefully a reshuffle on the cards soon and somebody will actually act and stop pussy footing around things.

No Pants

murphaph wrote: »

Free of charge is crazy....it leads to unnecessary journeys on a massive scale.

Can you please give me an example of such an event? I can't see myself taking a journey just because it was free and I don't understand why anyone else would.

Daemonic

No Pants wrote: »

Can you please give me an example of such an event? I can't see myself taking a journey just because it was free and I don't understand why anyone else would.

My parents use their free passes to take day trips regularly. They'd probably do a few of these anyway if they had to pay, but no where near as many. For a lot of people it's an opportunity to pass the day if you have nothing else planned.

bk

No Pants wrote: »

Can you please give me an example of such an event? I can't see myself taking a journey just because it was free and I don't understand why anyone else would.

I do, my aunt uses here free pass to get the train from Cork to Dublin about once every two weeks.

She just does it for the day, something to do and to walk around Dublin a bit. Doesn't even go shopping!!

She herself admits it is totally frivolous, she lives in Cork city, so she isn't exactly isolated. Lots of her friends do the same and go with her.

My dad has a car and the pass (OAP), but he takes the train when coming up to visit me in Dublin, just because he can relax and do the cross word on the train.

Lots and lots of people day trip around the country on free passes.

Asking people to pay 1/4 of a normal fare would make people ask if they really need to make the trip or not. It might also get people to take cheaper forms of transport. For instance 1/4 of a €9 Aircoach to Cork ticket or 1/4 of a €40 train ticket.

BuffyBot

IE should have a cap on number of pass holders per service, 20-25 seems reasonable and be allowed to reject them on busy services where online bookings are high or even just allowed to say no pass holders can travel on this service.

..and what about the outcry when Grandma Jones is left behind at station X missing her vital puppy to cure her of cancer of the puppy? Not workable, really.

My parents use their free passes to take day trips regularly. They'd probably do a few of these anyway if they had to pay, but no where near as many. For a lot of people it's an opportunity to pass the day if you have nothing else planned.

Whatever your parents may do, that's merely anecdotal evidence and doesn't bring anything to add weight to the claim above.

We all know lots of people who do lots of things: it doesn't make it representative of the general populous, however.