Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

DuckSlice

Dav010 wrote: »

At 31 years old and 12 years on tour, surely “potential” no longer applies, he’s not a kid anymore.

Does he not still have the potential to be better? I didn't realise it was only kids that have potential so apologies.

JPup

Even if he never reaches his peak level again, he surely has the potential to improve from his form in recent months?

Dav010

etxp wrote: »

Does he not still have the potential to be better? I didn't realise it was only kids that have potential so apologies.

I think it’s fair to associate potential with younger age groups and those who lack experience, how long should we wait for a 31 year old and 12 year veteran to realise their potential? Maybe the 6 inches between his ears has potential for improvement, but I doubt it, if it could, it would have happened by now.

Raisins

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it’s fair to associate potential with younger age groups and those who lack experience, how long should we wait for a 31 year old and 12 year veteran to realise their potential? Maybe the 6 inches between his ears has potential for improvement, but I doubt it, if it could, it would have happened by now.

You’re arguing a point that wasn’t made. Nobody argued for waiting to “realise their potential”.

He said “its hard to watch him play badly with the potential he has”.

That’s completely fair enough. He is outside the top 10 but he has the potential to win a grand slam and get back to world number 1 in his 30’s.

DuckSlice

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it’s fair to associate potential with younger age groups and those who lack experience, how long should we wait for a 31 year old and 12 year veteran to realise their potential? Maybe the 6 inches between his ears has potential for improvement, but I doubt it, if it could, it would have happened by now.

Everybody has potential to be better than they are no matter what the age.

Keano

Dav010 wrote: »

I think it’s fair to associate potential with younger age groups and those who lack experience, how long should we wait for a 31 year old and 12 year veteran to realise their potential? Maybe the 6 inches between his ears has potential for improvement, but I doubt it, if it could, it would have happened by now.

Lee Westwood- playing some of the best golf he ever has. Golf is a long career

Dav010

etxp wrote: »

Everybody has potential to be better than they are no matter what the age.

A statement of undeniable weight, but potential is associated with capacity to develop into something more in the future. Considering he has been on your 12 years, has won 4 majors, has been number one in the world for an extended period, what development are you referring to? Yes he will have streaks, maybe the mental aspect can be improved on, but is he still developing his game after all this time? No, if anything he is regressing unless you think he is a better player today than he was 12-14.

Keano

Dav010 wrote: »

A statement of undeniable weight, but potential is associated with capacity to develop into something more in the future. Considering he has been on your 12 years, has won 4 majors, has been number one in the world for an extended period, what development are you referring to? Yes he will have streaks, maybe the mental aspect can be improved on, but is he still developing his game after all this time? No, if anything he is regressing unless you think he is a better player today than he was 12-14.

He hasn't won a major in years, we all agree that is very poor by his standards but to say he is regressing is just a tad OTT. He still is winning tournaments and has only just dropped out of the top 10 in the world rankings.

The Big Easy

Dav010 wrote: »

A statement of undeniable weight, but potential is associated with capacity to develop into something more in the future. Considering he has been on your 12 years, has won 4 majors, has been number one in the world for an extended period, what development are you referring to? Yes he will have streaks, maybe the mental aspect can be improved on, but is he still developing his game after all this time? No, if anything he is regressing unless you think he is a better player today than he was 12-14.

This is all a little pedantic isn't it? We can probably all agree he is not playing to his full ability? He still has the ability to win majors and be world number one, that is unquestioned surely?

I would tend to agree that he is no better than he was in 2011/12 though. But that ability is still there, he just has to play to it, which he still can on any given week, who knows it may well be the second week in April! Maybe more unlikely now that he seems to want to fix his swing in some way with a new coach just a few weeks out from Augusta.

Golf is a game of huge variance both in the pros and our own weekend hacking and both in terms of results and performance. Players regularly go from being in the doldrums to contending and winning tournaments again. It's just the microscope is on the top guys especially in their own country.

We all struggle to view Rory objectively, who knows he might enter the doldrums prematurely ala Seve or Duval or have a renaissance ala Norman or continue to pick off tournaments and majors ala a Els. No one knows, I'm just going to enjoy watching him try gain for the green jacket at Augusta.

The consistency of a one off phenom in Tiger has skewed all analysis of mortal golfers in my view.

Dav010

Keano wrote: »

He hasn't won a major in years, we all agree that is very poor by his standards but to say he is regressing is just a tad OTT. He still is winning tournaments and has only just dropped out of the top 10 in the world rankings.

You feel the 19-21 Mcilroy that won a few tournaments and made it to No1 then dropped out of the top 10 within a year has continued to develop from the 12-14 period? Many would associate development in sport with improvement, you think he has improved?

DuckSlice

Would you not agree he has the potential to improve from the way he is currently playing?

"I really hope this works out for him, I'm a big Rory fan and its tough to watch him play so bad with the potential that he has demonstrated previously"

Maybe you would agree more if I worded it like that?

Its no secret that you aren't a fan of Rory but you have to agree he has the ability to be the best in the world again surely?

Dav010

etxp wrote: »

Would you not agree he has the potential to improve from the way he is currently playing?

"I really hope this works out for him, I'm a big Rory fan and its tough to watch him play so bad with the potential that he has demonstrated previously"

Maybe you would agree more if I worded it like that?

Its no secret that you aren't a fan of Rory but you have to agree he has the ability to be the best in the world again surely?

Personally, I think he had already achieved some of his potential, not all, early in his career, and has not progressed as a golfer since 2014. I don’t see him surpassing that level, and he has not reached it since his last major win.

It’s certainly no secret that I am as blindingly in love with him as some on this thread are, but that is not to say I am not a fan, so don’t assume to know.

ThewhiteJesus

Keano wrote: »

Lee Westwood- playing some of the best golf he ever has. Golf is a long career

last sting of a dying wasp though and as much as i like Lee, he hasn't many wins left in him, and no majors for sure.

Raisins

Dav010 wrote: »

You feel the 19-21 Mcilroy that won a few tournaments and made it to No1 then dropped out of the top 10 within a year has continued to develop from the 12-14 period? Many would associate development in sport with improvement, you think he has improved?

Golfers aren’t like that. They don’t have perfectly linear careers of incremental improvement / development. Woods 2002, Harrington 2008, McIlroy 2014, Speith 2015, Kopeka 2018. If you pick that year in their careers you could argue none of them improved or developed at all since then.

ThewhiteJesus

I think bringing Pete Cowen on board for Rory is a positive thing, it shows he still cares and wants to improve.
That's all that matters really it has to come from within, otherwise Bryson is going to dominate in my opinion especially on major set up courses

Dav010

Raisins wrote: »

Golfers aren’t like that. They don’t have perfectly linear careers of incremental improvement / development. Woods 2002, Harrington 2008, McIlroy 2014, Speith 2015, Kopeka 2018. If you pick that year in their careers you could argue none of them improved or developed at all since then.

That’s my point, you can’t really talk about any of their “potential” anymore once they reached the peak of their careers, will Keopke/spieth etc develop their games above that peak? Doubtful, will Mcilroy improve his game beyond the level achieved 12-14?, doubtful. You could argue that deChambeau has been developing his game and may not have yet reached its potential, time will tell in his case because he is less experienced than the others, and possibly younger.

No doubt all will compete, and probably win, but chances are, not at the level achieved when they won majors in those bursts.

lettuce97

Dav010 wrote: »

That’s my point, you can’t really talk about any of their “potential” anymore once they reached the peak of their careers, will Keopke/spieth etc develop their games above that peak? Doubtful, will Mcilroy improve his game beyond the level achieved 12-14?, doubtful. You could argue that deChambeau has been developing his game and may not have yet reached its potential, time will tell in his case because he is less experienced than the others, and possibly younger.

No doubt all will compete, and probably win, but chances are, not at the level achieved when they won majors in those bursts.

But that's not what his potential is - it means playing as well as he could right now, considering age, etc. Do you think he's playing as well as he could, at this moment (ignore 12-14)? I think he has the potential to play much better, and thus the frustration.

Dav010

lettuce97 wrote: »

But that's not what his potential is - it means playing as well as he could right now, considering age, etc. Do you think he's playing as well as he could, at this moment (ignore 12-14)? I think he has the potential to play much better, and thus the frustration.

Eh no, potential is capability to develop into something in the future. What you are alluding to is playing to a level achieved in the past, that is not potential.

lettuce97

Dav010 wrote: »

Eh no, potential is capability to develop into something in the future. What you are alluding to is playing to a level achieved in the past, that is not potential.

I'm afraid taking the definition of a word from the first hit google gives you doesn't mean you understand it!
Potential to play better means he has the ability to play better than he currently is, it doesn't mean better than he ever has done before.

Dav010

lettuce97 wrote: »

I'm afraid taking the definition of a word from the first hit google gives you doesn't mean you understand it!
Potential to play better means he has the ability to play better than he currently is, it doesn't mean better than he ever has done before.

Primary school english lettuce, and that is not the form etxp used the word.

etxp wrote: »

and its tough to watch him play so bad with the potential he has.

It wasn’t my intention to have a discussion on grammar and syntax, just to point out that referring to the “potential he has” shouldn’t really apply to a golfer 12 years into his professional career.

Keano

Let's not have a go at someone's grammar or spelling. This isn't school and it's against the charter.

lettuce97

Dav010 wrote: »

...referring to the “potential he has” shouldn’t really apply to a golfer 12 years into his professional career.

In a thread specifically about that golfer who is 12 years into his professional career? Why not?

Potential Underachiever

I guess what irks me about McIlroy fans is the notion that all he seemingly has to do is flick on a switch and just like that he will be world no.1 again by a mile and he's head and shoulders above every other player on the planet. It's been a few years since he won a major obviously and he looks as far away from winning one as he's ever done, there is also plenty of other world class players out there, just seems a lack of respect to them, I'm not saying the game has bypassed McIlroy but it won't be as easy as some folks think to just turn it around and become the world no.1 (by a mile) again.

Anyone who finishes consistently as high up then leaderboard as he does has the game. There is just something out of kilter at the min. Hopefully Cowan can unlock it.

fullstop

Thread never fails to deliver. We’ve moved on from Rory’s wedge play and putting to thesaurus lessons. Jolly good.

Tough break for Bannon, coaching him since he was 8 years old, but no time for sentiment in professional support I guess.

fullstop

fullstop wrote: »

Tough break for Bannon, coaching him since he was 8 years old, but no time for sentiment in professional support I guess.

Are you saying that he is obligated to stay with Bannon because he has been coaching him since he was 8? That’s a crazy notion. It’s business, if Rory feels like a change then he is perfectly entitled to move on.

Dav010

fullstop wrote: »

Thread never fails to deliver. We’ve moved on from Rory’s wedge play and putting to thesaurus lessons. Jolly good.

Tough break for Bannon, coaching him since he was 8 years old, but no time for sentiment in professional support I guess.

Unlike swinging a golf club, it would be a struggle to give thesaurus lessons considering what a thesaurus is.

Bannon apparently struggled to enter the US due to Covid restrictions so it makes sense to go “local”

fullstop

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you saying that he is obligated to stay with Bannon because he has been coaching him since he was 8? That’s a crazy notion. It’s business, if Rory feels like a change then he is perfectly entitled to move on.

Could you point out where I said that, because I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that?

The Big Easy

Dav010 wrote: »

Unlike swinging a golf club, it would be a struggle to give thesaurus lessons considering what a thesaurus is.

Bannon apparently struggled to enter the US due to Covid restrictions so it makes sense to go “local”

Don't think Bannon ever liked to travel much and Rory used to work with him mostly when at home.

Think it was always seen as a disadvantage that his swing coach didn't travel with him like most of the the other pros.

Bannon is right and so is Rory, rare in this black and white world

Think the statement said Cowen was joining the team including Bannon, not replacing him anyway.

Dav010

The Big Easy wrote: »

Don't think Bannon ever liked to travel much and Rory used to work with him mostly when at home.

Think it was always seen as a disadvantage that his swing coach didn't travel with him like most of the the other pros.

Bannon is right and so is Rory, rare in this black and white world

Think the statement said Cowen was joining the team including Bannon, not replacing him anyway.

Cowen certainly has a good list of clients so he might bring something new to Mcilroys game.