M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

KrisW1001

Given the length of road involved, it really won’t make much difference whether M21 is present or absent - if your commute involves Adare now, it would still be disrupted by the event. But it lasts around a week, so it’s not the end of the world.

But, that said, the stretch from the Croagh junction (actually on the Limerick side of the village) up to the existing M21 looks like the most likely candidate for the first section in a phased opening.

To save searching back through the thread, here are the drawings that were submitted to ABP back in 2019.

FINAL DESIGN UPDATE - NOVEMBER 2018 | foyneslimerick

mydiscworld

Am I correct in saying this will be fully funded by the EU so there won't be any issue if the winning tender price is very high with current construction costs?

After such a long delay, you'd hope they have the tender application/specs ready to go, bar any amendments required from ABP approval conditions...

Limerick74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547122#Comment_119547122

Minimal EU funding potentially available for design work on this project as it involves an EU TEN-T corridor. The construction element will be funded by the exchequer.

pigtown

Adare was lovely in the sunshine at the weekend and this road will be such a huge improvement.

Do you think that the proposal would be much different if the design team had to consider active travel and rail too like they did for the M20? It might have been a handy way of extending the greenway from Rathkeale at least

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547518#Comment_119547518

The best solution for active travel back at design stage and now is utilising the existing N21 between Rathkeale and Adare, imo. Most of the existing road is wide enough that it can accommodate two narrower driving lanes and walking/cycle lanes, plus a bit of separation between them. The traffic volumes on what will be the "old road" will be low, making it more pleasant that a route beside the motorway. The rail line is already there, and looks like it could reopen anyway, so that is not a consideration.

East of Adare, probably best to wait for the active travel proposal for the N/M20 project and tie into that.

DumbBrunette

ABP docs here, not sure if posted already:

https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/306146

Realistically, how long until construction starts? I'm guessing a long process of tendering, selecting bids etc..

marno21

I should add to my earlier comments on the 2027 date, the Ryder Cup provides a rare opportunity to use a future event to catalyse the development of a scheme like this. While the M21 should not be built for the Ryder Cup (it’s not), it does provide a reason for there to be justified impetus placed on its delivery. Most road schemes are a case of “yera it’ll be built when it’s built” so having something to publicly justify its acceleration, however merited that is, is an asset.

Ryder Cup aside, the 16km of motorway from Patrickswell to Rathkeale should be prioritised without question. The existing route here is a national embarrassment.

KrisW1001

It’s an odd argument, though, when the improvements will provide almost no benefit to the event organisers or visitors. I take your point about international events spurring development of infrastructure, but surely in that case M20 would be the critical project, not M21. This road would have a bigger impact on patrons of the competition, given that it is the road that everyone arriving at Cork Airport will be forced to use to reach the venue. I have heard nobody make a case that M20 is important to get working because of the Ryder Cup being staged in Ireland, but we keep hearing about how “essential” M21 is for the staging of this event, when in reality it will contribute to just 3 km of the route taken by well over 90% of those attending.

Honestly, I think it’s just a lazy word-association between “Adare” in the two phrases “Ryder Cup 2027 at Adare Manor” and “M21 Adare Bypass”.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548281#Comment_119548281

It's not that odd. Vitrually the same argument was used back in the early 00s to get the N7 widening done and opened before the 2006 Ryder Cup at the K Club.

I doubt many will be arriving via Cork Airport though. DUB and SNN are the ones with the trans Atlantic connections.

road_high

That’s great news- now get on with building the damn thing

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548352#Comment_119548352

I mentioned M20 mainly to highlight how illogical this “Need to have a motorway open for golf tournament to happen” argument is.

The N7 widening argument was also a bit of a red-herring, given that M4 is how most visitors arriving in Ireland would have got to that year’s venue. Okay, some people would have been arriving at other airports and travelling up, but even then, they would have left the works site almost immediately, at N7 J7.

Basically, the only rational argument for “need to have it done before {some big event}” is if people attending that event need that infrastructure to get to or from the venue. That wasn’t true of N7, it’s really not true of M21, and the only major road that comes close to that description is N20, but the idea of needing to upgrade N20 simply because a big golf match is happening in Adare sounds pretty stupid… because it is, and that was the point I was making.

spacetweek

This is such great and unexpected news! When exactly was this scheme submitted for PP?

KrisW1001

Lodged in December 2019. Final submissions were done by December 2020.

Mrs Dempsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548866#Comment_119548866

As someone who has no interest in golf, I'm looking down the other end of your telescope. What do I see? I see me not being gummed up in Adare (or an adjacent rat run) during a large golf event (or indeed at any time. IMHO this welcome project is for the likes of me & not for the golf fans

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119549549#Comment_119549549

So almost 2 years stuck in planning.... Not a great turnaround to be honest. Stuff like this should be done in 6 months max.

awaywithyou

bypassing Adare is great unfortunately it just moves the backlog down the road to newcastle west.... and then abbeyfeale... our american friends who will holed up in Killarney for the ryder cup wont be amused by having castleisland bypassed.. then bottleneck x 2 before arriving in bypassed Adare..

on ryder cup.. im sure it will be of benefit to have non-golf traffic kept away from Adare village while event is going on.. and ryder cup isnt just 2 days.. there will be huge organising work going on for weeks and months before event tees off....

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552722#Comment_119552722

Bypasses of Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale have already in planning.

https://n21newcastlewest.ie/

https://517301-20191009011652.createmy.website/

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552852#Comment_119552852

They’re of such a size that they should move through the motions quite quickly and have a decent chance of progressing in the medium term.

They’re also short and remove traffic from choked towns which allows them to curry favour with the incumbent anti-road Minister.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552336#Comment_119552336

Agreed. Roads in open countryside taking total of nearly 3 years to get a decision.

I shudder to think how long Metrolink in Dublin will be awaiting its decision.

marno21

To be fair, there was a lot of uncertainty in 2020 when the project was supposed to commence its oral hearing. It doesn’t excuse all of the delays but it does explain several months of delays.

ABP will be very busy with infrastructure with the DART extensions, MetroLink and BusConnects infrastructure all heading their way at the minute. Luckily for them roads projects have slowed to a crawl since 2020.

Cushtie

Delighted this has been given the green light. From what I remember the money for this was coming from EU and ring fenced so hopefully they can crack on and get the next stages started asap.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119554220#Comment_119554220

'Some' money comes from the EU. The vast majority is funded by the State. It is part of the Core TEN-T network so the EU want it open by 2030.

awaywithyou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553067#Comment_119553067

Abbeyfeale maybe as its a good bit south of the town.... but newcastle west will be a diff story... there will be many objections/submissions etc...

it is great to have an event like the Ryder cup to focus the minds on getting this project done... only for it... there would be no rush by the Dublin crowd... i can remember very well the widening of the naas road and the general improvements made in and around Straffan for Ryder cup in 06... teams of men working flat out and surprise surprise it was done in time... and was absolutely worth the time and money spent on it..

KrisW1001

Improvements around Straffan, maybe, but the N7 had nothing to do with the Ryder Cup. No extra effort was put in to finish it “on time” - it was always scheduled to be done in 2006, and any desire to get it open earlier was down to minimising disruption on the State’s busiest stretch of road - it’s not even on the way to Straffan unless you’re lost.

This idea that stuff will only gets done because some event is on is nonsense. One-off events have zero impact on any decision-making regarding what gets built and when. If a road not being there means it takes an extra hour to reach an event that lasts only six days and won’t ever return to the town, then that’s just fine - the road is being built for the people who will be using it day in, day out, not some one-off international travelling circus.

Chris_5339762

The N7 improvements were not for the Ryder Cup, I don't think... simply because Newlands wasn't done at the same time (why they improved the N7 and left Newlands seperate is beyond me to this day).

But maybe it was sped up a bit to make the nice new road finished, and not a construction site.

Anyway, M21. Glad this got approved... hopefully they can get moving on this a little bit now.

nearlybroke

Does anybody know the next three steps and timeframe for this road?

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119581915#Comment_119581915

I suppose tender is next. The Gov put out an investment brochure recently talking about all their big infrastructure plans and this scheme was pencilled in for starting in 2025.

Pete_Cavan

First steps will be to complete the CPOs and then get going with advanced works. Tender docs can be prepared in the bacbackground but could be a while before we see the tender issued.

specialbyte

First they need to wait 4 weeks to get the final ABP order. ABP have announced their decision but they need to wait 4 weeks before issuing the final board order that legally confirms the CPOs and planning permission are approved. The delay is to allow someone to ask the High Court to judicially review the legality of the decision from ABP. That's the next hurdle. Then processing the CPOs and tendering for advanced works (fencing, clearance, archaeology, etc.) then tender for the actual design and build contract.