M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [advance works to commence shortly]

mydiscworld

Still surprised they managed to get the 3 judicial reviews to be withdrawn. Assume details won't be released

lordleitrim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955385#Comment_120955385

OK...well here's another article that references farmers to "sign nothing" and "refuse access" to lands. While they may have no legal basis to refuse access, it doesn't suggest plain sailing. I suppose I'm just highlighting yet another obstacle that seems to be emerging. I'd be happy to be proven wrong as I'm as eager as anyone for construction of this scheme to begin.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uknews/farmers-advised-to-sign-nothing-amid-battle-over-new-ryder-cup-road/ar-AA1eVvFO

Pete_Cavan

Farmers holding out for every penny they can get and playing the poor mouth looking for sympathy, that's just par for the course. It's the same for every project. These ones seem to be trying to also drag CIE in as part of their shakedown, they'll try anything.

prunudo

First impressions from the article, any farmer that the IFA help with cpo's will be able to get a top of the range Fendt.

Limerick74

good news Significant development in €450 million Limerick road project confirmed - Limerick Live (limerickleader.ie)

road_high

I’m sorry but not a hope in hell that will be completed now by 2027. We are fast hurtling towards 2024. How long will tender’s take and appointment of a contractor?

BagofWeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993428#Comment_120993428

Won't even be a shovel on site by then. As funny as that comment sounds there is a very high chance that it'll end up being true.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993428#Comment_120993428

Good thing it doesn't have to be completed by 2027.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993428#Comment_120993428

The article says it is hoped that a section of it could be completed by September 2027. It doesn't say the whole road will be finished. The government putting funding forward would be a bigger issue that appointing a contractor.

marno21

This is going to have to be elevated above Departmental level if it’s going to be completed. It’s already going to be challenging but there is no reason it can’t be done if required.

At the end of the day, there are 3 outcomes for when the Ryder Cup is on

1. The M21 has yet to commence construction
2. The M21 is under construction, ergo the main road from the motorway network into Adare is a building site as it’s an online upgrade
3. The M21 is at least partially open, at least past Adare.

The Ryder Cup, while it may be a 3 day golf tournament, is going to broadcast Adare, Limerick and Ireland on the world stage. It’d be nice to have the road open, while I fully acknowledge that the road is not really related to the Ryder Cup and is much more about its own merits.

But option 2 is really a non runner here, so it’s either wait a few years to start or get motoring now.

Hibernicis

Just a note of realism. The supreme court refused leave to appeal the M28 case in March 2021. Almost two and a half years later, funding for that project has not been allocated and the tender has not been issued. The M21 is now roughly where the M28 was in March 2021.

I know Rafeen Creek was never likely to host the Ryder cup and Cork doesn’t have a JP, but getting the M21 finished even as far as the Croagh interchange by 2027 looks like a big ask.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994531#Comment_120994531

To be fair, the M28 always had a lengthy and complex 3 year period of advance works that couldn’t be shortened, primarily due to utility diversions I believe it was.

The same constraints don’t exist with the M21. The only constraints with the M21 are bureaucratic

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993874#Comment_120993874

Option 4. The M21 is under construction, but the online section near Adare is left untouched..

Option 5. The M21 is under construction, and the section from the tie-in to the Adare junction has been opened.

We are talking about just 3 km of road, from the end of the existing dual-carriageway N21 to the location of the proposed Adare junction. Everything west of there does not matter, as the vast majority of visitors to this event will arrive from the East.

That makes it "easy" to do, but it also makes it irrelevant.

“We need the motorway done because golf competition” is the stupidest reason to mess with a major road project. An event the size of this, it won’t matter one bit whether there are two lanes between Limerick and Adare or one: either way, traffic will be restricted, and the Gardaí will enforce a no-car cordon around the event, and everyone not involved in golf will be delayed and inconvenienced. People visiting these events are used to coach transfers and not being able to take a motorway to the gate. It’s how it works everywhere in Europe: I just looked up the 2023 venue outside of Rome, and it is served by a single-carriageway road... they’ll manage, and so will Adare Manor.

As for the county’s image: First, nobody’s going to be that impressed by a motorway, and second, the international coverage of this event will show not one centimetre of the country outside the venue. Has nobody watched a golf tournament on TV before? I can’t abide the game, but I’ve still had to sit through watching enough of it on TV to know that no-matter where the competition is staged, all you ever see is the the private grounds and the course. On TV, nobody will know if there’s a motorway or not, and it won’t matter.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994768#Comment_120994768

I agree with all this, but in a country where it seems unreasonably difficult to advance roads projects for various reasons, if the Ryder Cup is an apparent reason why this road needs to be built, I'm 100% behind that cause.

KrisW1001

I’m in favour of it being built too, but I’m against a the holding of a one-off golf tournament messing with the project scheduling resulting in it being more expensive than it should have been.

The M21 and the Ryder Cup are two things that are happening, one does not need depend on the other, so making one depend on the other will only cause trouble.

Hibernicis

@KrisW1001 “We need the motorway done because golf competition” is the stupidest reason to mess with a major road project.”

Every time I hear the Ryder cup trotted out as the reason for constructing/prioritising this road it makes me laugh. That it is somehow more important than the misery of the thousands who use the road through Adare on a daily basis, not to mention the residents is ridiculous.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994907#Comment_120994907

100%. They are completely unrelated, the Ryder Cup doesn't need the M21 to go ahead and the Ryder Cup isn't in the top 100 reasons for the M21 to be built.

But if there's public support and media pressure to look good to accelerate the M21 because of a perceived requirement for the M21 to be in place for the Ryder Cup, chuck my vote behind such a maneuvre.

I'm not particularly bothered if the M21 costs more due to Ryder Cup acceleration. The Irish State isn't really renowned for getting value for money from its expenditure at the end of the day, and the M21 would be something of significant value to a lot of people.

Hibernicis

@marno21 The utility diversions in Rochestown and Ringaskiddy, the archeology surveys, and the other prelims are what they are. The “inertia” that has allowed two years to pass before tendering for consultants to work on the main tender (never mind getting the main tender published and awarded) is the real issue. There is no reason to believe that the “inertia” was exclusive to the M28.

Possible intervening variables…. For - JP. Against - The archeology of the route and a ”responsible” Minister who will never miss an opportunity to screw up or delay a road project.

In summary, could the road be built and open by 2027 if heads were banged together and the will existed ? Yes. Do I believe that even the initial section will be built and open by 2027 ? Doubtful, but happy to be proved wrong.

Pete_Cavan

Even if construction were to start at beginning of 2025, there would be over 2 years to have the Adare Bypass open. It is entirely possible from this standpoint.

Prioritising the Adare Bypass just makes sense and wont cost extra. Any contractor would be delighted to hand over a large part of the project and get paid for that. They don't want to be responsible for and insure a 35km long site until the last inch is signed off.

Getting the Adare Bypass done first means the state starts realising the benefits from its investment earlier. The same doesn't really apply to the Type 2 section to Foynes as as traffic is much lower. Without the Adare Bypass, most of the traffic will continue using the N69.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996608#Comment_120996608

The tie-in could be at either the proposed Croagh junction or the Rathkeale roundabout, therefore not really requiring additional temporary work.

KrisW1001

The Foynes link is what is funding this project (like N28, it’s an EU grant for port access under the TEN-T programme). The EU will take a dim view if that part is de-prioritised or in any way long-fingered... it would have taken a bit of persuasion to allow the Adare bypass be funded as a Foynes-Limerick access road as it was.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996701#Comment_120996701

Open to correction but I don’t think there is EU funding for construction, only studies and design. In any case, the Foynes section would still be part of the contract, just the Adare Bypass would be the first.

Hibernicis

@Pete_Cavan "The same doesn't really apply to the Type 2 section to Foynes as as traffic is much lower."

I'm confused about this. I've seen this section variously described as "Type 2" and also as a single carriageway road, with wide margins to allow for later upgrade to Type 2 if and when the traffic justifies it. Do you know which of these went to ABP ?

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996590#Comment_120996590

I'm not in any way disputing that is is possible. I'm certainly dubious as to whether or not is likely to be open by 2027 given the glacial pace at which virtually every other road projects is moving. Unless maybe it gets a helping hand. And the archeological secrets remain well buried.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996763#Comment_120996763

It's Type 2 Dual Carriageway.

spacetweek

With advance works underway and the way cleared a few days ago to allow CPOs to go ahead, this one is gaining momentum. Yet much of the last 20 posts has been misery guts posting about how uncertain it is to ever open. Cheer up!

DumbBrunette

Getting a bit nerdy here, but what is the Foynes link likely to be designated as? It could become the N69, but other strategic ports are connected to national primary roads, such as the N28 or N29. My money is on N34.

Pete_Cavan

I don't see why it wouldn't be N69. Presumably TII would like to hand the N69 east of Askeaton over to LCCC and making the new part N69 would be the easiest way of doing that. I don't think there needs to be a Nat Secondary between Foynes and Limerick, as well as combination of two Primaries which are motorway/dual carriageway all the way.

National Primary or Secondary makes no difference really, particularly after that section of the road gets an entire new build. If the road was crap, maybe being a Primary would improve the chances of getting funding but its getting funding as a Nat Secondary so that's not relevant.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996590#Comment_120996590

I don't think theres a chance of that, because realistically to start in early 2025 we'd need to have tenders out by the end of 2023, which is just not feasible at this stage.

nearlybreak

I hear this project has gone to tender has anyone else heard this