Sean O'Rourke Today Show

jeremyj1968

I'm sure there will be something about this on the show today.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/writer-and-barrister-noel-whelan-dies-aged-50-after-short-illness-1.3953576

Topgear on Dave

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

I'm sure there will be something about this on the show today.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/writer-and-barrister-noel-whelan-dies-aged-50-after-short-illness-1.3953576

I'm a bit shocked hearing that on the radio this morning, I often heard him on radio or read his articles.

A very young man sadly.

HeidiHeidi

Very sad news. Despite all the slagging about him being a FF mouthpiece, I always found his commentary interesting and engaging and not at all biased, and he had some great articles in the Irish Times.


Can't believe he was only 50. Far too young.


He'll be missed on the airwaves by me anyway.

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Very sad news. Despite all the slagging about him being a FF mouthpiece, I always found his commentary interesting and engaging and not at all biased, and he had some great articles in the Irish Times.


Can't believe he was only 50. Far too young.


He'll be missed on the airwaves by me anyway.

Me too. He seemed like an old-fashioned gentleman with a modern mind, capable of imagining a better society without diminishing his love for Ireland.

He was of course a Fianna Fáil man through and through. But he was still able to acknowledge the disastrous policies pursued for many years by that party. He took the longer view. His book on the history of Fianna Fáil is a worthwhile historical text for any political anorak.

He had a very unique way of speaking. Quite apart from his dogged refusal to acknowledge the existence of the letter H, he had a very personal (and personable) style. Notwithstanding his intellect, he seemed like the kind of guy you'd like to have a pint with and talk about the political scandal of the day. He will be missed, for sure.

Odyssey 2005

I see sean took twink out of her crypt to offer her watery condolences

Callan57

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Very sad news. Despite all the slagging about him being a FF mouthpiece, I always found his commentary interesting and engaging and not at all biased, and he had some great articles in the Irish Times.


Can't believe he was only 50. Far too young.


He'll be missed on the airwaves by me anyway.

RIP big loss to political punditry, he had a great nose for how the "wind was blowing" & never lost his "ear to the ground".

jeremyj1968

"I owe a lot of my seat to Noel Whelan" Zappone
"He was central to the same sex marriage campaign".

I think there is a big problem with modern journalism, that being a lobbyist and activist is not acceptable. It is not the job of the journalist to advocate for one side or the other. It is their job to report on the news impartially. Noel Whelan was presented as an independent observer by RTE, but he was more an activist than a journalist.

jeremyj1968

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

"I owe a lot of my seat to Noel Whelan" Zappone
"He was central to the same sex marriage campaign".

I think there is a big problem with modern journalism, that being a lobbyist and activist is not acceptable. It is not the job of the journalist to advocate for one side or the other. It is their job to report on the news impartially. Noel Whelan was presented as an independent observer by RTE, but he was more an activist than a journalist.

There's a big difference between news journalism and commentary. It's fairly basic, Jeremy. News commentary isn't impartial, news is. Everybody knew Noel Whelan had a particular political loyalty/ outlook, as does Vincent Browne, as does Fintan O'Toole or any other commentator. Their roles are nothing like those of the political correspondents.

Now is probably not the time.

FrancieBrady

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

"I owe a lot of my seat to Noel Whelan" Zappone
"He was central to the same sex marriage campaign".

I think there is a big problem with modern journalism, that being a lobbyist and activist is not acceptable. It is not the job of the journalist to advocate for one side or the other. It is their job to report on the news impartially. Noel Whelan was presented as an independent observer by RTE, but he was more an activist than a journalist.

If the listenership doesn't know the difference between journalism and comment then that really is their problem.

I would have many issues with what Irish journalism chooses to report on and hierarchies of news content, but commentary is a different thing.

serfboard

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's a big difference between news journalism and commentary.

Indeed. Noel Whelan was never a journalist, never presented himself as such, and never was presented as such. He was always presented as "barrister and political commentator".

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed. Noel Whelan was never a journalist, never presented himself as such, and never was presented as such. He was always presented as "barrister and political commentator".

Yeah, that's true. I do slightly object to that, mind you. Journalists are allowed to have opinions when writing features and commentary, but he is being described as a "pundit" today as opposed to a journalist, the latter which title I'd argue is one he deserves more than most.

BarryD2

Bit of a 'car crash' interview with Brian Hayes former FG MEP. He retired from the MEP gig and has apparently stepped straight into a role of being a PRO for the banks.

Going down like a lead balloon with the listeners. Would he not have been wiser to sit out a few years and then take on a role like this?

Depends what traction it gets, but poor publicity for FG.

L1011

BarryD2 wrote: »

Bit of a 'car crash' interview with Brian Hayes former FG MEP. He retired from the MEP gig and has apparently stepped straight into a role of being a PRO for the banks.

Going down like a lead balloon with the listeners. Would he not have been wiser to sit out a few years and then take on a role like this?

Depends what traction it gets, but poor publicity for FG.

He agreed the role in November last year!

serfboard

BarryD2 wrote: »

Bit of a 'car crash' interview with Brian Hayes former FG MEP. He retired from the MEP gig and has apparently stepped straight into a role of being a PRO for the banks.

Going down like a lead balloon with the listeners. Would he not have been wiser to sit out a few years and then take on a role like this?

It's part of the revolving door between the public and private sectors that goes on all over the world. Politicians in particular, but also senior public servants moving from government jobs to lobby for the private sector - and in particular for financial services (and often for Goldman Sachs).

And in fact, sometimes it works the other way around, where people from the private sector are brought into the public sector. Have a look at the career of Mario Draghi, for example - from general director of the Italian Treasury, to vice chairman and managing director of Goldman Sachs International, and then Governor of the Bank of Italy, and then to being chairman of the ECB.

Closer to home look at someone like John Bruton, who went from being Taoiseach, to being the European Union ambassador to the US, to then becoming chairman of financial services body, IFSC Ireland.

You then have to ask yourself this question - do you think that these people, while being public servants, will do anything that will not benefit the private sector, and in particular the financial services industry, when they might be the recipients of lucrative contracts from that industry when they finish? It's called "Regulatory Capture":

When regulatory capture occurs, the interests of firms, organizations, or political groups are prioritized over the interests of the public, leading to a net loss for society.

AFAIK, certain countries have a "decontamination" period for public servants when they leave office, whereby they cannot work for a certin period of time in an industry that they were previously in charge of regulating, although, IMO, this is just a sop. These guys have long memories of favours that were done for them.

crossman47

BarryD2 wrote: »

Bit of a 'car crash' interview with Brian Hayes former FG MEP. He retired from the MEP gig and has apparently stepped straight into a role of being a PRO for the banks.

Going down like a lead balloon with the listeners. Would he not have been wiser to sit out a few years and then take on a role like this?

Depends what traction it gets, but poor publicity for FG.

Why shouldn't he take on a new role when he left politics? What would he and his young family live on for the few years you mention?

BarryD2

crossman47 wrote: »

Why shouldn't he take on a new role when he left politics? What would he and his young family live on for the few years you mention?

Mr.Hayes would have been on a decent MEP salary for last five years plus unknown and possibly substantial expenses. On top of which he gets c €44000 as a leaving package according to https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mep-brian-crowley-to-get-350k-payout-and-14m-pension-922255.html Wouldn't that be enough to tide him over for at least a year?

Aside from which, I can't see any problem with ex MEPs working. But I do see a major problem with them swapping into related lobbying roles. A 'gamekeeper' one week and a 'poacher' next to use that metaphor. Opaque and sure to contribute to public skepticism of politics and big business.

Brendan Bendar

BarryD2 wrote: »

Mr.Hayes would have been on a decent MEP salary for last five years plus unknown and possibly substantial expenses. On top of which he gets c €44000 as a leaving package according to https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mep-brian-crowley-to-get-350k-payout-and-14m-pension-922255.html Wouldn't that be enough to tide him over for at least a year?

Aside from which, I can't see any problem with ex MEPs working. But I do see a major problem with them swapping into related lobbying roles. A 'gamekeeper' one week and a 'poacher' next to use that metaphor. Opaque and sure to contribute to public skepticism of politics and big business.

Correct.

This crack of getting ‘ packages’ and ‘pensions’ should be offset by earnings after leaving a post.

I have some acceptance of ‘packages’ on leaving to compensate for extra work and stuff over the years, but this business of getting ‘Pensions’ to continue till death, whilst doing other highly paid work is for me a crock of schidt.

Time to sort out these tools who are rimming the taxpayer biggo.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Correct.

This crack of getting ‘ packages’ and ‘pensions’ should be offset by earnings after leaving a post.

I have some acceptance of ‘packages’ on leaving to compensate for extra work and stuff over the years, but this business of getting ‘Pensions’ to continue till death, whilst doing other highly paid work is for me a crock of schidt.

Time to sort out these tools who are rimming the taxpayer biggo.

If you don't provide a public-service pension to decisionmakers in public office, be they politicians or civil servants, then lucrative private-sector careers are exactly what they are likely to pursue.

And how better to pursue such an opportunity than to befriend, or develop a good track record in defending such an industry?

I'm sure this is already happening to an extent. But leave some lad in the Central Bank in charge of making recommendations on banking policy, and then tell him he'll have to sort out his own pension, well it doesn't take a cynic to suspect what he might do.

BarryD2

I wouldn't think that the public would care less if retiring MEP Brian Hayes went and got a job in say a manufacturing or retail industry. But to take up the position of Chief Executive of the Banking and Payments Federation of Ireland https://www.bpfi.ie/about-bpfi/about-us/ represnting the banking industry in Ireland and from which I quote: 'Through the work of our Brussels and Frankfurt based offices, our active membership of the European Banking Federation and our well-established EU and international networks, we are well placed to represent Ireland’s banking and payments industry at an international level' is surely taking the proverbial p*ss out of the public. Gone overnight from an in depth position as a policy maker paid out of public monies to a lobbyist using the knowledge gained as a public representative.

I'm not anti FG by any stretch of the imagination but you'd think that there must have been someone having a word in his ear and advising him that it doesn't reflect well on the party. Or maybe it does and shows them to be hand in glove with an industry of which part of nearly pulled the country under the water and from which we're still recovering.

As a faux pas, it's a lot more indicting that the Bailey story.

Brendan Bendar

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you don't provide a public-service pension to decisionmakers in public office, be they politicians or civil servants, then lucrative private-sector careers are exactly what they are likely to pursue.

And how better to pursue such an opportunity than to befriend, or develop a good track record in defending such an industry?

I'm sure this is already happening to an extent. But leave some lad in the Central Bank in charge of making recommendations on banking policy, and then tell him he'll have to sort out his own pension, well it doesn't take a cynic to suspect what he might do.

I think you misunderstand my post or point M.

I’m not referring to Ordinary Joe here I am referring to dudes like say Ivan Yeates , Bertie Ahearn, for example.

These guys are on mega pensions at relatively young ages.

I’m sure both of them are earning good moolah right now?

I’m sure they both got big ‘packages’ on ‘retiring’?

Why should the state be paying them ‘pensions ‘ on top of that?

Surely a pension is to tide you over when no longer in employment?

If the want to work on let them, but I would contend the ‘pension’ shouldn’t kick in till no longer employed and be ‘co ordinated’ with any other income from other sources.

That’s how I see it.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I think you misunderstand my post or point M.

I’m not referring to Ordinary Joe here I am referring to dudes like say Ivan Yeates , Bertie Ahearn, for example.

These guys are on mega pensions at relatively young ages.

I’m sure both of them are earning good moolah right now?

I’m sure they both got big ‘packages’ on ‘retiring’?

Why should the state be paying them ‘pensions ‘ on top of that?

Surely a pension is to tide you over when no longer in employment?

If the want to work on let them, but I would contend the ‘pension’ shouldn’t kick in till no longer employed and be ‘co ordinated’ with any other income from other sources.

That’s how I see it.

That only applies the "Little People" like you and I though Brendan in this "Great Little Country"

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I think you misunderstand my post or point M.

I’m not referring to Ordinary Joe here I am referring to dudes like say Ivan Yeates , Bertie Ahearn, for example.

These guys are on mega pensions at relatively young ages.

But the same applies to them, surely -- even moreso?

If we don't provide pensions for these guys, they'll all turn into Brian Hayes types, foreseeing a future for themselves in bank-advocacy, or similar.

Where is Dick Roche these days? Batt O'Keefe? Marys Harney and Coughlan?

Thankfully not in the public eye. We were stupid to elect them, but we'd be doubly-stupid to hand them power and then cause them to appease relatively lucrative industries during their time in office, more than they already did.

Brendan Bendar

Deleted User wrote: »

That only applies the "Little People" like you and I though Brendan in this "Great Little Country"

Indeed, indeed.

So to stop these folk we were stupid enough to elect, becoming some kind of advocates, we must pay them huge pensions, some from age 50 to the end, irrespective of what their other earnings are?

Along with huge ‘severance packages’ probably tax free.

Lookit, that’s money wasted in my book.

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Indeed, indeed.

So to stop these folk we were stupid enough to elect, becoming some kind of advocates, we must pay them huge pensions, some from age 50 to the end, irrespective of what their other earnings are?

Along with huge ‘severance packages’ probably tax free.

Lookit, that’s money wasted in my book.

Oireachtas pensions only kick in at retirement age these days, although not for those who qualified prior to about 2012, admittedly.

Means-testing them would be a good way of disincentivising politicians to pursue private sector work, actually

Although they could still just establish private companies for income purposes, though. Many ex politicians probably already do for tax-avoidance.

Brendan Bendar

https://www.herald.ie/news/big-losers-exit-with-huge-payoffs-27974401.html






Interesting reading.

Callan57

I appreciate terrible wrongs have been done to people but, at this stage, it just seems that the issue of an apology has become totally devalued and is turning into a "daily apology" slot ... particularly when someone is apologising for something they personally had no involvement whatever with.

Would it not be much better to actually resolve the issue/s and make sure, as far as possible, that there is no repetition?

Odyssey 2005

Very watery interview with varadkar.

jeremyj1968

We got a report from a good citizen (aka Rat)

Odyssey 2005

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Very watery interview with varadkar.

Callan's Kicks - without the laughs.

More words being dropped out from another expert: "body of work"... "big job of work" sez Sean. ;(