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Irish citizens caught up in the trouble in Egypt.

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13

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    #62
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Executive Steve wrote: »
    Pretty much, I mean I've no love for the MB at all, but a lot of the reporting seems to be painting opponents of the military coup as "Pro-MB supporters".


    If there were a military coup tomorrow and we all went out marching in protest (as I hope we all would) would that make us all "Fine Gael Supporters"?

    To be perfectly honest, I think if there was a military coup here tomorrow I think a lot of us would be out partying on Tuesday!!!


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    #63
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Painful trying to read through the whole thread but it's worth pointing out that the MB are Conservative, relatively moderate and not fundamentalist.

    I wouldn't have voted for the MB in elections but if I was Egyptian I would be standing shoulder to shoulder with them in protests for democracy and against the military junta.

    That said, Madhi Al Harati, The Tripoli Brigade Commander and "close confederate" of Al Qaeda's Belhadj was an instructor at Clonskeagh and the Irish "rebel" in Syria who was killed went to school there.


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    #64
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    SeanW wrote: »
    I hope you are never hired as a security guard ... "ah those guys prying open that window with those crowbars? Just having a bit of fun, surely!" :rolleyes:

    You're probably a leftist so I'll try again to spell it out for you.
    1. Some people are concerned about Islamic extremism.
    2. Children of the Clonskeagh Imam are found to be participating in a Muslim Brotherhood protest.
    3. That raises the question of why: were they simply protesting against the anti-democratic nature of the coup, or explicitly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?
    4. If they are MB supporters, where did they get these views?
    5. If they got these views from their home life - i.e. their father who is also the Imam of the Clonskeagh mosque - then it follows that support for the MB and other religious-political movements is a family affair. This is likely and cannot be discounted.
    6. In that case, it also possibly follows that daddy is writing sermons to radicalise his followers, given his position of religious authority.

    Nice to equate one strand of Islamic politics with burglars. You're a real master of metaphor.

    The Muslim Brotherhood managed to gain enough support to win a democratic election from literally millions of Egyptians. To that end, protests in support of that ousted government involve rather more Egyptians than are active involved in Muslim Brotherhood activism. These Irish-Egyptians clearly have more than enough reason to protest about what's been happening there, without some idiot in Ireland casting aspersions and wondering why they sound kinda 'Araby' despite living in Firhouse. Sheikh Hussein Halawa's sermons are a matter of public record, given that they're for a public audience, so it's not like he's been sneaking the odd bit of radicalism out on the sly. If you've a concern about the man, why not just find out what kind of stuff he promotes. As it stands, there's not an awful lot to fear from even the most radicalised Muslim Brotherhood advocate - they're quite entitled to make their case. Oh, and some people are concerned about kneejerk xenophobes who seemingly believe 'leftist' to be an insult.


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    #65
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    SeanW wrote: »
    That is possible. However, since the demonstration was organised by the Muslim Brotherhood, it legitimately raises the question: are they MB supporters?

    If they were taught to be MB supporters at home, then it follows that daddy, a.k.a the Imam of the Clonskeagh mosque, is also a supporter of Islamist ideology. That would be troubling.

    Especially seeing as the MB have allegedly been attacking Christians in Egypt....


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    #66
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Would many Egyptians fly in here for the protest?

    They were already in Egypt visiting their relations.


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    #67
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    Einhard wrote: »
    I don't necessarily buy into this notion that anyone who supports the Muslim Brotherhood is a hardline extremist.

    The Muslim Brotherhood have every right to feel aggrieved. We in the West are always banging on about democracy, and how Islamic groups should embrace it. The MB do just that, only to be ousted in a military coup. Is there any great condemnation at this affront to democracy? Not a bit of it. Their supporters protest, and are murdered in their hundreds- and still barely a murmur of protest. If I were a MB member, or a supporter of any Islamic group, I'd be very wary of calls to democracy right now.

    And yet, after all this, the Muslim Brotherhood, rather than the army or the secularists in Egypt are singled out for scrutiny and suspicion. Seems a tad topsy turvy to me.

    The Muslim Brotherhood are allegedly attacking Christians in Egypt according to today's Sunday Times


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    #68
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Especially seeing as the MB have allegedly been attacking Christians in Egypt....

    Its not like the military didn't stage attacks before and try and blame protesters in 2011.........

    Also, seeing as the Brotherhood is being killed in the streets as we speak, with much of there leadership arrested, I find such claims hard to believe.

    Still rather amazing that the mass murder is being so down played by some on this thread, and instead we have wild accusations being leveled against people for having the temerity to either protest a murderous military coup or who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also, apparently accents apparently important to the subject somehow.

    IMHO, a shambles of a thread from the start.


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    #69
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    dharma200 wrote: »
    Wether 'daddy' is giving out sermons on whatever or not, that doesn't give the right for a bunch of military thugs to kill 600 people and terrify thousands, to not allow people to protest an extraordinary state of affairs in that a military force is allowed and sponsored to kill its own citizens... Wether daddy is an extreme twist or not it does not mean his family, or the hundreds/thousands of people inegypt deserve to be shot dead for protesting against a forced government and military murder.[/quote

    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities


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    #70
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities

    So you support mass murder of protesters?

    Also, various forms of Sharia existed in Egypt before the Brotherhood.


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    #71
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    dharma200 wrote: »
    Wether 'daddy' is giving out sermons on whatever or not, that doesn't give the right for a bunch of military thugs to kill 600 people and terrify thousands, to not allow people to protest an extraordinary state of affairs in that a military force is allowed and sponsored to kill its own citizens... Wether daddy is an extreme twist or not it does not mean his family, or the hundreds/thousands of people inegypt deserve to be shot dead for protesting against a forced government and military murder.[/quote

    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities
    And how do you impose shariah law on an entire city?


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    #72
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »

    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities

    Your Ma needed to deal with you more severely when you bunked off religious education and civics in school. You're simply talking nonsense.


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    #73
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    wes wrote: »
    So you support mass murder of protesters?

    Also, various forms of Sharia existed in Egypt before the Brotherhood.

    The article on Sharia in the Constitution was taken verbatim from Mubarak's constitution


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    #74
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    The Muslim Brotherhood are allegedly attacking Christians in Egypt according to today's Sunday Times

    It's a situation ratcheted muddied by the Coptics weighing in behind a murderous military junta - http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/08/17/Egypt-s-Coptic-Church-announces-support-for-army-police.html


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    #75
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    wes wrote: »
    So you support mass murder of protesters?

    Also, various forms of Sharia existed in Egypt before the Brotherhood.

    Read my post... I stated that they want Sharia Law in Europe...


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    #76
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Read my post... I stated that they want Sharia Law in Europe...

    ... So it's fair enough to shoot them on the streets of Cairo. Deal with them 'severely'. That'll work a treat.


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    #77
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Read my post... I stated that they want Sharia Law in Europe...

    Ok, so your saying that the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood have imposed Sharia in Europe..... Yeah, this thread is even more of a disaster now....

    So this wild fantasy some how justifies murdering protesters in the streets? Good to see so much support for a murderous military junta.


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    #78
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    And how do you impose shariah law on an entire city?[/quote

    Can you not read? I stated that they want to impose it on streets of European cities. In Walthamstow last year they took to patrolling the streets to move on prostitutes and while you may say this is commendable, it was done in the name if Sharia Law. The journalist Stacey Dooley made a documentary in Luton where the fundamentalists stated to her that they wanted Sharia Law.


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    #79
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    alastair wrote: »
    Your Ma needed to deal with you more severely when you bunked off religious education and civics in school. You're simply talking nonsense.[/quot

    Whatever you believe in your bleeding, liberal heart....


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    #80
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    And how do you impose shariah law on an entire city?[/quote

    Can you not read? I stated that they want to impose it on streets of European cities. In Walthamstow last year they took to patrolling the streets to move on prostitutes and while you may say this is commendable, it was done in the name if Sharia Law. The journalist Stacey Dooley made a documentary in Luton where the fundamentalists stated to her that they wanted Sharia Law.


    .....what has any of that to do with "Irish citizens caught up in the trouble in Egypt"?


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    #81
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    And how do you impose shariah law on an entire city?[/quote

    Can you not read? I stated that they want to impose it on streets of European cities. In Walthamstow last year they took to patrolling the streets to move on prostitutes and while you may say this is commendable, it was done in the name if Sharia Law. The journalist Stacey Dooley made a documentary in Luton where the fundamentalists stated to her that they wanted Sharia Law.

    I want to win the lottery. They're entitled to actively pursue and advocate for sharia law if they so desire.


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    #82
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Can you not read? I stated that they want to impose it on streets of European cities. In Walthamstow last year they took to patrolling the streets to move on prostitutes and while you may say this is commendable, it was done in the name if Sharia Law. The journalist Stacey Dooley made a documentary in Luton where the fundamentalists stated to her that they wanted Sharia Law.

    Ok, so the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, were behind this? Any proof? Seriously wtf does this have to do with Egypt exactly? You seem to be tossing out something that has nothing to do with Egypt to justify mass murder. Seriously this is getting really silly at this point.


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    #83
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    I wonder if our government actually knows what is being taught at the Clonskeagh Mosque?


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    #84
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Nodin wrote: »
    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Brown Bomber wrote: »


    .....what has any of that to do with "Irish citizens caught up in the trouble in Egypt"?
    You ask that with a straight face?:eek:
    Here, read this http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/islamic-brotherhood-failed-to-understand-the-majority-of-egyptians-rejects-fundamentalism-1.1495562


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    #85
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    alastair wrote: »
    ... So it's fair enough to shoot them on the streets of Cairo. Deal with them 'severely'. That'll work a treat.


    I clearly stated ' extremists ' wanted Sharia law in Europe . Where did I state that the MB wanted such a thing?


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    #86
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    wes wrote: »
    Ok, so your saying that the Egyptian Muslim brotherhood have imposed Sharia in Europe..... Yeah, this thread is even more of a disaster now....

    So this wild fantasy some how justifies murdering protesters in the streets? Good to see so much support for a murderous military junta.

    This is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I never once stated that the MB wanted Sharia in Europe. I stated 'Extremists' . It is rather impossible to debate with somebody who a) Cannot read it b) makes things up


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    #87
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    I clearly stated ' extremists ' wanted Sharia law in Europe . Where did I state that the MB wanted such a thing?

    Your response, in post 69, was entirely directed at a comment about the violent suppression of the supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Please don't try to backpedal now.
    dharma200 wrote: »
    Wether 'daddy' is giving out sermons on whatever or not, that doesn't give the right for a bunch of military thugs to kill 600 people and terrify thousands, to not allow people to protest an extraordinary state of affairs in that a military force is allowed and sponsored to kill its own citizens... Wether daddy is an extreme twist or not it does not mean his family, or the hundreds/thousands of people inegypt deserve to be shot dead for protesting against a forced government and military murder.

    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities


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    #88
    Two Tone from Limehouse
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Two Tone from Limehouse


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    dharma200 wrote: »
    Wether 'daddy' is giving out sermons on whatever or not, that doesn't give the right for a bunch of military thugs to kill 600 people and terrify thousands, to not allow people to protest an extraordinary state of affairs in that a military force is allowed and sponsored to kill its own citizens... Wether daddy is an extreme twist or not it does not mean his family, or the hundreds/thousands of people inegypt deserve to be shot dead for protesting against a forced government and military murder.[/quote

    Well I believe Extremists need to be dealt with severely. It's the softly softly approach that has lead to them trying to impose Sharia law on the streets of some European cities

    For the benefit if Wes, Brown Bomber etc

    Now where did I state that the MB wanted Sharia on the streets of Europe?


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    #89
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Can you not read? I stated that they want to impose it on streetDo s of European cities. In Walthamstow last year they took to patrolling the streets to move on prostitutes and while you may say this is commendable, it was done in the name if Sharia Law. The journalist Stacey Dooley made a documentary in Luton where the fundamentalists stated to her that they wanted Sharia Law.

    Do you need a documentary to tell you that an Islamic fundamentalist would prefer Sharia Law? And by Sharia law I don't mean the bastardised House of Saud version.

    Honestly, you shouldn't get so worked up about a handful of lunatics getting media coverage they don't deserve.


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    #90
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »

    For the benefit if Wes, Brown Bomber etc

    Now where did I state that the MB wanted Sharia on the streets of Europe?

    Eh - here:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wes
    So you support mass murder of protesters?
    Also, various forms of Sharia existed in Egypt before the Brotherhood.

    Originally Posted by Two Tone from Limehouse
    Read my post... I stated that they want Sharia Law in Europe...


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    #91
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »
    This is like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. I never once stated that the MB wanted Sharia in Europe. I stated 'Extremists' . It is rather impossible to debate with somebody who a) Cannot read it b) makes things up

    Well, the thread is about even in Egypt and Irish citizen being caught up in it. So its kind of understandable, when people read posts in that context. Deciding to randomly insert something that has nothing to do with Egypt kind of makes it very difficult to discuss the actual topic......


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