Irish citizens caught up in the trouble in Egypt.

SeanW

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

How does not having an issue with someone being of the islamic faith make you come to the above conclusion?

"Being of the Islamic faith" is one thing, "Being a supporter of Islamists, like the Muslim Brotherhood" is quite another.

The left continuously tells us that there is a difference, but in the case of this family, I'm not seeing it.

Boombastic

dharma200 wrote: »

What has the government in Egypt got to do with anyone not Egyptian..... Why is it even in the news that people are being shot dead by their own government, can't imagine why anyone not Egyptian would be atall interested, or why anyone who is not Egyptian would be in Egypt atall atall......... Down with that sort of thing, I mean didn't that photographer deserve to be shot dead, taking photographs and him not Egyptian, sure if you are in Egypt and not Egyptian you are fair game.... Or if you are Irish and not in Ireland you are fair game to be shot dead by a government

So you would have no problem with your family holidaying in an unstable country to protest at the regime, which they have no connection with if they are Irish residents?

riffmongous

Boombastic wrote: »

So you would have no problem with your family holidaying in an unstable country to protest at the regime, which they have no connection with if they are Irish residents?

What are you talking about? How does living in one country mean you have no connection with another?

dharma200

No connection with? I hardly think the people you are talking about have no connection. Just because you are an Irish resident means you must have no connections or affiliations with any other nation, group, religion etc. really.... All Irish citizens must only have connections with Irish things..... Ok

dharma200

Perhaps we should let the millions of Irish who live out of Ireland know that just in case......

Sir Humphrey Appleby

SeanW wrote: »

That is possible. However, since the demonstration was organised by the Muslim Brotherhood, it legitimately raises the question: are they MB supporters?

If they were taught to be MB supporters at home, then it follows that daddy, a.k.a the Imam of the Clonskeagh mosque, is also a supporter of Islamist ideology. That would be troubling.

You would find it troubling that a Muslim cleric holds Islamic views?

SeanW

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

You would find it troubling that a Muslim cleric holds Islamic views?

ISLAMIST views.

Boombastic

dharma200 wrote: »

No connection with? I hardly think the people you are talking about have no connection. Just because you are an Irish resident means you must have no connections or affiliations with any other nation, group, religion etc. really.... All Irish citizens must only have connections with Irish things..... Ok

What connection would 17 year old, who has live in Ireland their whole life have with politics in Egypt?

Who would send their children holidaying in an unstable country? Who encouraged them out to protest?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

SeanW wrote: »

I hope you are never hired as a security guard ... "ah those guys prying open that window with those crowbars? Just having a bit of fun, surely!" :rolleyes:

You're probably a leftist so I'll try again to spell it out for you.

1. Some people are concerned about Islamic extremism.And some people want to cause fear because it suits their twisted agenda
2. Children of the Clonskeagh Imam are found to be participating in a Muslim Brotherhood protest.No evidence at all of that
3. That raises the question of why: were they simply protesting against the anti-democratic nature of the coup, or explicitly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? Or out shopping and got caught up in the protest
4. If they are MB supporters, where did they get these views?Bought them in Pennys:D
5. If they got these views from their home life - i.e. their father who is also the Imam of the Clonskeagh mosque - then it follows that support for the MB and other religious-political movements is a family affair. This is likely and cannot be discounted. Yes it can be discounted unless you are in the business of creating tensions where none need exist
6. In that case, it also possibly follows that daddy is writing sermons to radicalise his followers, given his position of religious authority. What bull****, you create a scenario of lies,misrepresentations and shítstirring in order to reach that conclusion, you are nothing less than a snake oil salesman, and a poor one at that!

Thats is so trite it is laughable!
Big into the oul conspiracy theories ar you?
Or just like trying to raise racist tension to suit some perverted agenda?:mad:

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Boombastic wrote: »

What connection would 17 year old, who has live in Ireland their whole life have with politics in Egypt?

Who would send their children holidaying in an unstable country? Who encouraged them out to protest?

Who says they were protesting?

Boombastic

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Who says they were protesting?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0818/468807-cairo-irish/
The siblings were among thousands who took took to the streets on Friday for what they believed would be a peaceful protest against the military.
After violent clashes, they sought sanctuary in the mosque.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/four-missing-irish-siblings-found-in-cairo-prison-29507545.html
he Halawa siblings were taking part in a demonstration when violence forced them into the Al-Fath Mosque in the Ramses Square area of Cairo at about 7pm last Friday night. Once inside, they found themselves trapped.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

SeanW wrote: »

ISLAMIST views.

islamist

Web definitions
a scholar who knowledgeable in Islamic studies

SeanW

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Thats is so trite it is laughable!

Glad to have amused you :cool:

Big into the oul conspiracy theories ar you?

Nope, just asking some aparent questions. Questions perhaps you would prefer not be asked?

Or just like trying to raise racist tension to suit some perverted agenda?:mad:

You've been proven thoroughly wrong about what the family was doing there, but why let that stop you from throwing words like "racist" and "perveted agenda?":rolleyes:

While you're at it, perhaps you could explain what's "racist" about opposing groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and being suspicious of those who support them? Preferably showing how such has anything to do with RACE, keeping in mind that Islam is a religion, not a race.

Mr.Micro

Knob Longman wrote: »

My username should have nothing to do with it..
Must break your heart to see immigrants here in such large numbers..Bigoted ignorants like your good self only stirring up shíte..Your posts give off the impression that you're a very insecure man..

In fairness though he is making points that you or I may not agree with and it is unfair to get personal. Challenge the post and its content. IMO

NoNewFriends

The parents of those children should be ashamed of themselves. Likewise the parents of the "Irish citizens" who died fighting a foreign war in Libya. Who could allow their children to run-off to an unstable country to align themselves with extremists? The truth is Irish citizenship is being handed out too easily. Many of our newly adopted citizens of the Islamic faith have no allegiance to this country and are simply here for financial reasons.

SeanW

Knob Longman wrote: »

Must break your heart to see immigrants here in such large numbers

I can refute this straight off - I am certain there are plenty of immigrants who would be happy to embrace the Irish identity, and be happy to share a unfied, secular society with people of other faiths and none, Jews, homosexuals, religous apostates, blasphemers, people who enjoy having personal lives that are not dictated by anti-human codes of "family honour" etc.

And then you have this family, who, from what I can see, have absolutely nothing Irish about them except their passport. Support for hardline Islamists IMO makes one the exact opposite of the above.

As just one example, I would guess that if you ran a refendum throughout Europe asking "Should we stone gay people?" you would get a significant "Yes" percentage and many of them would vote that way because it is compatible with Islamic law and their origin-nation traditions.

I am happy to share our society with others - including immigrants - who likewise treasure secular freedom. But the fact that the children of a major religious figure have been found to be supporters of Islamic fundamentalists is something I find quite troubling.

wexie

SeanW wrote: »

But the fact that the children of a major religious figure have been found to be supporters of Islamic fundamentalists is something I find quite troubling.

Has the possibility not occurred to you at all they were there protesting against the military coup and associated problems rather than in support of the MB?

Just the same as people in Ireland have been protesting against the bank bailout etc. rather than in support of the 'leftists' as you call them?

You seem to be rather black and white in your views but I think maybe you should give some consideration to the possibility of being both against the MB AND the overthrowing of the 'democratically elected' government?

SeanW

wexie wrote: »

Has the possibility not occurred to you at all they were there protesting against the military coup and associated problems rather than in support of the MB?

Just the same as people in Ireland have been protesting against the bank bailout etc. rather than in support of the 'leftists' as you call them?

You seem to be rather black and white in your views but I think maybe you should give some consideration to the possibility of being both against the MB AND the overthrowing of the 'democratically elected' government?

That's certainly possible, but as I said, it's a question legitmately raised.

feargale

SeanW wrote: »

Ok, so its been all over the news now about the children of the Imam of the Clonskeagh mosque who have been caught up in the violence in Egpyt. Indeed I just heard from the sister who did not go talking on the radio not long ago. Obviously I hope no harm comes to them but a few questions spring to mind.

1. Why were Irish citizens - the children of a supposidly Irish religious leader - involved in a Muslim Brotherhood protest? Were they protesting in support of the MB? Does the family (and by extension the leadership of the Clonskeagh mosque) support the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamist hardliners? ]

Maybe they were endorsing the view of the Irish government, i.e. the military takeover constitutes a coup. ( and incidentally the Pope is a Catholic.)

SeanW wrote: »

[*]Allegedly, the family in question have been in Ireland since 1996. That's almost 20 years ago. But the lady on the radio did not have even a hint of an Irish accent. Why is this?

Let me know if you ever meet a native of Ireland living in a non-English speaking country who speaks the local language without a trace of an Irish accent. It's not as if we were the world's greatest linguists.

SeanW

feargale wrote: »

Maybe they were endorsing the view of the Irish government, i.e. the military takeover constitutes a coup.

Again, it's possible.

Let me know if you ever meet a native of Ireland living in a non-English speaking country who speaks the local language without a trace of an Irish accent. It's not as if we were the world's greatest linguists.

No, it appeared to me that the woman on the radio did not have a hint of an Irish accent, despite having been here for 17 years. Would an Irish person go to anywhere else, live there for 17 years and not pick up a trace of the local accents?

How does one accomplish this? Besides ... oh say ... sticking only to your own "group" and refusing to integrate?

dharma200

A lot of presuming assuming and guessing there.. I don't know what your particular beef is with these women or why their nationalism or lack of it, their actual choice of location, politics or religion has any bearing in the horrific events going on in Egypt. Regardless of their beliefs etc what is happening there can not be excused and no one can do the 'they brought it in themselves for actually being there' because its not just them , it's hundreds and hundreds of people. The fact they were reported in the press is because of their citizenship I presume, but it seems that you have a real problem with these women and the situation they find themselves in, like they have no right of protest and are asking to be killed like the 600 odd people so far that have been shot, presumably not all of those 600 are extremists terrorist s and a good few of them are maybe not full blown comp,eye Egyptian. You are stating that perhaps these women refused to integrate, and are assuming this all because of their accent, questioning their authenticity... Etc etc... As far as I am concerned they are human beings and should be treated as such. I know a good few Irish who have lived here all their life and sound like Americans.... Does that mean they are less irish... I just don't understand what your problem is with these particular women and their citizenship, accent, loyalty and religion.....

Frank Grimes

SeanW wrote: »

How does one accomplish this? Besides ... oh say ... sticking only to your own "group" and refusing to integrate?

Some people just don't lose their accents, it can really be that simple - I know you just want 'evidence' to support the conclusions you have already reached but this one is really stretching it.

feargale

SeanW wrote: »

No, it appeared to me that the woman on the radio did not have a hint of an Irish accent, despite having been here for 17 years. Would an Irish person go to anywhere else, live there for 17 years and not pick up a trace of the local accents?

I remember some years ago a guy came home to my place from New York after a number of years speaking as he did the day he left. Everyone said he was a great fella, never forgot where he came from. But a lady who came back with an American twang was said to have notions about herself. I dont know what New Yorkers would say if they saw them marching with a very political banner on Patrick's Day.

SeanW wrote: »

How does one accomplish this? Besides...oh say...sticking only to your own "group" and refusing to integrate?

Birds of a feather flock together,like Irish as above, or Jews in NY or Paris, or Brits in Bombay or Benidorm. If I can get the names and addresses of these Muslims I'll see if I can arrange lessons in Irish language and Irish dancing for them, and instruction in Catholicism etc.. And let's see Paddy in Dubai with a camel and no booze.

Knob Longman

SeanW wrote: »

I can refute this straight off - I am certain there are plenty of immigrants who would be happy to embrace the Irish identity, and be happy to share a unfied, secular society with people of other faiths and none, Jews, homosexuals, religous apostates, blasphemers, people who enjoy having personal lives that are not dictated by anti-human codes of "family honour" etc.

And then you have this family, who, from what I can see, have absolutely nothing Irish about them except their passport. Support for hardline Islamists IMO makes one the exact opposite of the above.

As just one example, I would guess that if you ran a refendum throughout Europe asking "Should we stone gay people?" you would get a significant "Yes" percentage and many of them would vote that way because it is compatible with Islamic law and their origin-nation traditions.

I am happy to share our society with others - including immigrants - who likewise treasure secular freedom. But the fact that the children of a major religious figure have been found to be supporters of Islamic fundamentalists is something I find quite troubling.

That's fair enough, I'll take back what I said so..
Your point about the "gay people" actually is probably quiet true, I know the point you're trying to make, But personally I live in a neighbourhood full of differing types of Muslims and the vast majority of them are decent honourable people whom I'm actually glad to have as neighbours..

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

Again, it's possible.

No, it appeared to me that the woman on the radio did not have a hint of an Irish accent, despite having been here for 17 years. Would an Irish person go to anywhere else, live there for 17 years and not pick up a trace of the local accents?

How does one accomplish this? Besides ... oh say ... sticking only to your own "group" and refusing to integrate?

.....simplistic tosh.

Nodin

NoNewFriends wrote: »

The parents of those children should be ashamed of themselves. Likewise the parents of the "Irish citizens" who died fighting a foreign war in Libya. Who could allow their children to run-off to an unstable country to align themselves with extremists? The truth is Irish citizenship is being handed out too easily. Many of our newly adopted citizens of the Islamic faith have no allegiance to this country and are simply here for financial reasons.

Generalised nonsense. Have you any specific information to add?

dharma200

As I have said before, just because they were protesting does not make them supporters of Islamic fundamentalists. The same as many people in west Belfast are not supporters of the I r a.... The same as all the people who march against the banks here etc are lefties, the same as all those who protest against shell are hippies. The guessing and sweeping generalisations about these specific people , their father, their families and wether they are hard line Islamic fundamentalists screams to me that you have a specific problem with these individuals and are using this forum in a round about way to try to garner some sort of discrediting of their irish ness, nationality and authenticity. What you are forgetting in this is that they are human beings. The whole gay referendum thing makes no sense in this thread. Ask plenty of Irish Catholics and you'll ge the same response. It seems the fact these people are Muslim is the problem, and the fact they don't have the right accent... Sure let them be shot then eh, and no body say a word or have an interest? It seems these posts are specifically aimed at creating a lack of sympathy or empathy for these people purely in the fact they are not irish enough for you. That , I am afraid, is shameful.

Son Of A Vidic

SeanW wrote: »

Why were Irish citizens - the children of a supposidly Irish religious leader - involved in a Muslim Brotherhood protest?

Did they tell you they were involved? Or are you just assuming they were involved? They were on holiday in a city, which had hundreds of thousands of protesters on the streets. So there is a strong possibility that they got caught up on the mayhem. Hence the reason they took shelter in a Mosque. There is also, equally a possibility that they were involved in the protest. And so what anyway? An elected government has been illegally overthrown.

SeanW wrote: »

Does the family (and by extension the leadership of the Clonskeagh mosque) support the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamist hardliners?

What hardliners? All I know is that the Muslim Brotherhood and their president are the democratically elected government of Egypt. They were ousted by the army in a military coup. The brotherhood have a broad base of support right across Egypt.

People from all backgrounds and all walks of life support them. We are not talking about the likes of Islamic Emirate of Iraiq. Although if the military brutality continues, such like minded extremist will enter undoubtedly enter the fray.

SeanW wrote: »

Allegedly, the family in question have been in Ireland since 1996. That's almost 20 years ago. But the lady on the radio did not have even a hint of an Irish accent. Why is this?

So now their lack of an Irish accent puts them under the spotlight. Perhaps we should get an rendition team over and have them delivered to Bagram or Guantanamo. I spent 10 years living in London and never developed an English accent. Why is an accent even an issue?

Executive Steve

Einhard wrote: »

I don't necessarily buy into this notion that anyone who supports the Muslim Brotherhood is a hardline extremist.

The Muslim Brotherhood have every right to feel aggrieved. We in the West are always banging on about democracy, and how Islamic groups should embrace it. The MB do just that, only to be ousted in a military coup. Is there any great condemnation at this affront to democracy? Not a bit of it. Their supporters protest, and are murdered in their hundreds- and still barely a murmur of protest. If I were a MB member, or a supporter of any Islamic group, I'd be very wary of calls to democracy right now.

And yet, after all this, the Muslim Brotherhood, rather than the army or the secularists in Egypt are singled out for scrutiny and suspicion. Seems a tad topsy turvy to me.

Pretty much, I mean I've no love for the MB at all, but a lot of the reporting seems to be painting opponents of the military coup as "Pro-MB supporters".


If there were a military coup tomorrow and we all went out marching in protest (as I hope we all would) would that make us all "Fine Gael Supporters"?

Boombastic

Executive Steve wrote: »

Pretty much, I mean I've no love for the MB at all, but a lot of the reporting seems to be painting opponents of the military coup as "Pro-MB supporters".


If there were a military coup tomorrow and we all went out marching in protest (as I hope we all would) would that make us all "Fine Gael Supporters"?

Would many Egyptians fly in here for the protest?