Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

robopaddy

premierstone wrote: »

Colm Bonnar or any of the names on the previous list are not an improvement on Michael Ryan and in alot of case's a step backwards, it makes the attempted ousting of Ryan all the more baffling.

at this stage you would have to say it will more than likely be derek mcgrath.

Im not saying whether or not he would be up to the task, I really dont know but its a shame to see a certain quota of players dictating the co. board and getting their own way but i guess thats just where we are at the minute.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Colm Bonnar or any of the names on the previous list are not an improvement on Michael Ryan and in alot of case's a step backwards, it makes the attempted ousting of Ryan all the more baffling.

Agreed, as I said still waiting for the outstanding candidate to appear.

While I'm not gonna say Derek McGrath is not a better manager than Ryan or question his potential (because I just don't really know), he's not really achieved all that (yet) to suggest we should have be going through all this just to have him on board.

premierstone

robopaddy wrote: »

at this stage you would have to say it will more than likely be derek mcgrath.

Im not saying whether or not he would be up to the task, I really dont know but its a shame to see a certain quota of players dictating the co. board and getting their own way but i guess thats just where were are at the minute.

If the rumours are true that there is a divide between East/West players which seems plausible and also of course you will have players who wanted Ryan to stay are they really going to accept McGrath?

Ideally you need an outside man, but between the fact that your county board is as broke as meself and none of the real top managers are available Waterford County Board really are caught between a rock and a hardplace.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

If the rumours are true that there is a divide between East/West players which seems plausible and also of course you will have players who wanted Ryan to stay are they really going to accept McGrath?

Ideally you need an outside man, but between the fact that your county board is as broke as meself and none of the real top managers are available Waterford County Board really are caught between a rock and a hardplace.

To be fair though, they haven't helped themselves in the slightest here. Tom Cunningham saying they've had no contact with the players, and then Ryan says that the county board had contacted him telling him there was gonna be a meeting on the Sunday.

Then going straight to twitter to tell the world Ryan was resigning. Why like?

I would imagine Michael Ryan was told by Connors that the players had voted that it would be best that they parted ways. I would be surprised if the details of the meeting were disclosed. And I think Michael Ryan's decision to leave was based on thinking it was unanimous and better off, but then after received support from several players that made him feel that maybe he could still take the team on next year.

I also think looking at the Boards statement that they told him they wanted him to reapply too.

So I think it's between Ryan and McGrath and I wouldn't rule out Michael Ryan returning yet. Obviously the big problem with that would be if Ryan is in charge you will have rumours and media speculation of unrest in the camp which would hang over the team for the year.

Either way, we'll be massive favourites for relegation from 1A

hardybuck

Ryan didn't exactly come in with a sparkling CV either. It was a mixed bag. He won ladies football titles, had been a selector for the Waterford senior hurlers, and had good success with De La Salle.

Interestingly, despite winning a county title and a Munster title before being pipped in an All Ireland club semi to a side who walked the final, he was only retained for one year in De La Salle. I'm not sure what the full story is there, but you hear people saying that people like Derek McGrath had a very strong influence over the running of the team at that time.

Very few counties will be in a position to appoint anyone with a perfect CV - there is a shortage of those people out there in general. A county like Waterford will have even more difficulty, and we may get used to that.

premierstone

hardybuck wrote: »

Very few counties will be in a position to appoint anyone with a perfect CV - there is a shortage of those people out there in general. A county like Waterford will have even more difficulty, and we may get used to that.

Thats kind of my point though there is no better alternative and he is doing a good job, why change? Its the same as some Limerick fans calling for John Allens head after last Sunday.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Thats kind of my point though there is no better alternative and he is doing a good job, why change? Its the same as some Limerick fans calling for John Allens head after last Sunday.

Is that actually happening? :eek: World's gone mad. Amazing how quickly things change after one bloody defeat. Even the most optimistic Limerick fan would have had an awful struggle trying to convince anyone they'd beat Tipp.

hardybuck

premierstone wrote: »

Thats kind of my point though there is no better alternative and he is doing a good job, why change? Its the same as some Limerick fans calling for John Allens head after last Sunday.

There comes a point in every manager's tenure where a fresh voice is needed. On paper the alternative may not appear to be much better, but a fresh approach can have a positive, or indeed negative impact.

If you took John Allen, was he any better on paper than Donal O'Grady when he took over Cork in 2005? A guy who started off as a team masseur, then selector, before working his way up?

From the outside looking in, I would have thought that Ryan would have been able to hold the players together for another year at least, but that obviously has not been the case.

premierstone

hardybuck wrote: »

There comes a point in every manager's tenure where a fresh voice is needed. On paper the alternative may not appear to be much better, but a fresh approach can have a positive, or indeed negative impact.

If you took John Allen, was he any better on paper than Donal O'Grady when he took over Cork in 2005? A guy who started off as a team masseur, then selector, before working his way up?

From the outside looking in, I would have thought that Ryan would have been able to hold the players together for another year at least, but that obviously has not been the case.

Donal O'Grady resigned so thats not really a fair comparison Michale Ryan still wnats the job and two years is hardly time for a new voice when progress is obvious, Brain Cody never had that problem, infact Anthony Daly just had he's most sucessfull year after 6 years in charge.

Your last para I agree with but where we might disagree with is who is to blame for this, and its alkso why apart from the money issue I can't imagine an outside manager worth he's salt taking a risk on these players.

robopaddy

premierstone wrote: »

Thats kind of my point though there is no better alternative and he is doing a good job, why change? Its the same as some Limerick fans calling for John Allens head after last Sunday.

He was found out a bit last Sunday though he was totally outfoxed by Davy on the sideline. He should have known the type of gameplan Clare would bring but didnt little or nothing to counteract it instead going for what won them the 2 games in Munster. Cant blame him for that I know, but Croke Park was always going to be a different story with different type of pressures than to the homecomforts of the Gaelic Grounds and they were caught very cold on the day. How they stood there looking at Hannon driving wide after wide before waiting until the second hlf before taking him off them is criminal as his apparant nervousness became infectious towards his teamates as well as the first half wore on. It obviously wasnt working for the lad and he should have been taken out of his misery after the 3rd one at the very latest. Then when Seamus Hickey went off injured they looked bereft of a Plan B and by the time they reverted to the usual strategy of bringing in players who are actually miles better than some of the players in the starting 15 it was too late.

When you compare that to what we are alleged to have gotten rid of poor Mick Ryan for then if anyone would be to get the boot it would be Allen. But the Limerick players are too respectful of their manager to go off undermining I would imagine

Mr Tibbs

Its called a county board for a reason and that should mean a joint statement from all concerned who are involved in this debacle. Its early days yet but why allow rifts to fester with speculation about east and west in a small county for gods sake. Its getting to joke proportions now with all the rumours that are going around about what he said she said. The county chairman should have the cop to bring all sides together and resolve this situation, surely he has to have some input here otherwise what is he there for at all.

Ropaire

robopaddy wrote: »

When you compare that to what we are alleged to have gotten rid of poor Mick Ryan for then if anyone would be to get the boot it would be Allen. But the Limerick players are too respectful of their manager to go off undermining I would imagine

Ask Justin how it worked out for him in Limerick.

robopaddy

Ropaire wrote: »

Ask Justin how it worked out for him in Limerick.

Justin's time was up. when 2 counties refuse to play for you in the space of 18 months maybe it was time to call it a day

deiseach

Ordinarily I'd be one for not letting a split like this fester, but even with the best will from both sides there's a chance this might erupt in open war like it did in Cork and Limerick. With that in mind, let's park it until after the Minor final. Never mind it interfering with the preparation of the team, I don't want it interfering in my enjoyment of the build-up! :P

deisedude

In a way its the best possible build up for the minors going into the final. All the media and public focus seems to be on the senior team

Mountainlad

So many diversions it's amazing (and not a great thing in one respect, a great in another with relation to the minors) that there's so much talk here at this stage.

What do people make of the county championship thus far?

De La Salle clear favourites and hard to argue it. Impressive showings again this year and are coping well without Daniels. Dunno who's there to stop them, Lismore haven't been all guns blazing so far they';ll need to find another gear.

Outside of that a lot of the contenders have key injuries, Ballygunner appear to have lost Hutchison now having had erratic form over the last two years anyway, Mount Sion have lost O'Neill, and Fourmile are missing a few most notably Shane Walsh and remains to be seen can achieve fitness this year.

I don't see Dungarvan as outright winners, nor indeed Abbeyside despite quite a ressurgeance from them. Passage though are going very well. Lot of lads on County teams this year, coupled with having the likes of Kelly and Tommy Connors and even Conor Carey and they look a decent team. Bit late to be calling them dark horses given they're top of group 2 but they could well be there or thereabouts at the end.

premierstone

deisedude wrote: »

In a way its the best possible build up for the minors going into the final. All the media and public focus seems to be on the senior team

And all the crap about the other semi aswell, its really falling kindly for Waterford.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Passage though are going very well. Lot of lads on County teams this year, coupled with having the likes of Kelly and Tommy Connors and even Conor Carey and they look a decent team. Bit late to be calling them dark horses given they're top of group 2 but they could well be there or thereabouts at the end.

Was thinking that myself, big chance for them this year as you say with a lot of other teams not going well with injuries and that. Kelly to be fair to him is unplayable when hes in the form hes in at the moment and if they could avoid DLS in the KO stages they are definetly capable of getting to a final and who knows after that

Mountainlad

robopaddy wrote: »

Was thinking that myself, big chance for them this year as you say with a lot of other teams not going well with injuries and that. Kelly to be fair to him is unplayable when hes in the form hes in at the moment and if they could avoid DLS in the KO stages they are definetly capable of getting to a final and who knows after that

Yano I'd say DLS would be very hard to beat in a final to be honest. I reckon getting them before that is the time to beat them. Lismore nearly did it last year without Maurice Shanahan in the quarters. Say they took their eye off the ball. For a team that plays so many games that is pretty plausable.

Be different in a final. Obviously we'll no more after the weekend, but I could see Abbeyside taking Dungavan this weekend. That would mean Ballygunner would be playing De La Salle I believe. Now that, would be interesting.

hardybuck

I can't see anything other than a comfortable win for DLS. There is no way the likes of Passage would have the quality to stop them if they turn out to be the best of the rest.

Disappointing year for Dungarvan. Everyone expected them to push on after a great 2012, but I remember watching that final and wondering if the hammering might knock some of the young lads back, but 2nd year syndrome might be having some impact.

Pretty surprised with the likes of Lismore, I thought they would be stronger. I'd expect Ballygunner to have another sting in their tail yet.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

I can't see anything other than a comfortable win for DLS. There is no way the likes of Passage would have the quality to stop them if they turn out to be the best of the rest.

Disappointing year for Dungarvan. Everyone expected them to push on after a great 2012, but I remember watching that final and wondering if the hammering might knock some of the young lads back, but 2nd year syndrome might be having some impact.

Pretty surprised with the likes of Lismore, I thought they would be stronger. I'd expect Ballygunner to have another sting in their tail yet.

Dunno will Passage beat DLS themselves, but I certainly don;t think it's implausable that they might capitalize on somebody else doing it.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yano I'd say DLS would be very hard to beat in a final to be honest. I reckon getting them before that is the time to beat them. Lismore nearly did it last year without Maurice Shanahan in the quarters. Say they took their eye off the ball. For a team that plays so many games that is pretty plausable.

Be different in a final. Obviously we'll no more after the weekend, but I could see Abbeyside taking Dungavan this weekend. That would mean Ballygunner would be playing De La Salle I believe. Now that, would be interesting.

I'd agree with the above. In a final the DLS players will be used to the occasion, and probably relish it at this stage. For teams playing them in the final, it can probably be a bit daunting. They've dished out trimmings in the last few county finals if memory serves me correctly.

Lismore proved that they can be caught off guard up to that point alright.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Dunno will Passage beat DLS themselves, but I certainly don;t think it's implausable that they might capitalize on somebody else doing it.

Hard to see who'll do it though.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

I'd agree with the above. In a final the DLS players will be used to the occasion, and probably relish it at this stage. For teams playing them in the final, it can probably be a bit daunting. They've dished out trimmings in the last few county finals if memory serves me correctly.

Lismore proved that they can be caught off guard up to that point alright.

That's it really, they are winners and in a County final they have a chance to win trophies. The tedium of other games given they play so many means the same hunger wouldn't quite be there and they expect to be in finals.

They won't be bet in a final.

hardybuck wrote: »

Hard to see who'll do it though.

It is I guess in fairness, but we've had a plenty of upsets at this level before. A dodgy ref can have a big impact. And if DLS to go out, any of the quarter finalists could win it.

seananigans

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/mcgrath-leads-race-to-become-deise-supremo-29515370.html

alllcounty

I'd say it's DLS's to lose now, they're the best in the competition but there are 4 other teams that could beat them on the day. Expext Abbeyside to beat Dungarvan in the derby at the weekend, they're a big physical team and playing with alot more skill this year for the first time in a good few years. Dont think Roanmore will survive another year in senior, too many light lads on the team and An Ring have put in better performances so far this year, allthough neither are really senior material. As for who will be intermediate champs it's hard to call. If Clashmore put in as much effort in to the hurling as they do with the football at adult level then they could easily win the western title for the first time in he clubs history. I think portlaw will win out the east. As for junior I hope tramore make amends after last year's relegation but there are 4 junior teams in the west that are just as good.

The blue blaa

This Saturday in Walsh park the U14,15 and the U16 county teams each play Kilkenny in Walsh Park first up is the tony Forristal team there playing at 2pm U15 @3pm and U16 @4pm

seananigans

for once i think this is about right

http://eircomsports.eircom.net/News/Hurling-Power-Rankings-2013-14.aspx

seananigans

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2108131128-on-the-line-donal-og-cusack-on-hurling-/


no mention of his name being bandied

doz

hardybuck wrote: »

Disappointing year for Dungarvan. Everyone expected them to push on after a great 2012, but I remember watching that final and wondering if the hammering might knock some of the young lads back, but 2nd year syndrome might be having some impact.

I feel Dungarvan are suffering from a lack of freshness in the Senior Championship, mainly due to the team being so young. There are lads like Gavin Power, Kevin Daly and Patrick Curran playing minor, u21 and senior for club and minor for county and some playing football also. Ryan Donnelly and the other three Currans also playing a lot of games and some football also I believe. They landed a tough group bar Roanmore, particularly with Abbeyside making good strides under Darragh Duggan. Should be a great game next Sunday but if it comes down to tit for tat hurling I think Dungarvan will have the edge.

Hard to see beyond De La Salle for county, simply too much quality there. Lismore could still have a run if they make quarters, I would give them a good chance against Mount Sion or Passage.

Feel De La Salle are a bit shaky in full back line and will be punished if they progress to Munster.