Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

stumblingblock

citykat wrote: »

. Good result for the Deise though especially McGrath. He's gotten some abuse on this forum...

He has. And much of it justified after last years shambles. Saturday was a promising step in the right direction. But we'll need to see a few more performances like it for the public to start backing this management team again

HillFarmer

Just saw the game, I thought the second penalty was a joke.

Horseboxhead

if we had attacked the game like we did in the first half, we would have won pulling up, but we allowed Limerick back into the game, you could see it happening from the very start of the second half, Limerick took off and we lost all shape which we did for alot of last year, that to me was the reason we only drew a very winable game[Limerick were only at about 70%], but we hurled very well in patches, and had some very good performences, i thought Brian o halloran was the pick of the game, for his scoring , free winning ability, and even just for that last ball alone, to me if he can get a good run on this kid has something different and to tell you the truth its just simply he reads the game very well, always seems to be in the right position, has the ability and confidence to go with it and good pace, i would love to see him in june flying for Championship.

I think that jake dillon is a wonderful hurler, i think he will continue to be a wonderful hurler, but i think the game has gone so fast now that as a scoring forward you can have all the ability in the world[and jake has magic wrists], but he looks as if struggles for pace, and if hes struggeling in feb, its not going to get any slower, espically if Kearney can improve, Dunford has to come back, two lads with serious pace, and you have ryan donnally around there, i think bar kearney jake has the hurling and more of all of these but he is more than one step short, Where do you put him?, too small for half forward, too slow for Corner forward or even full, i think he needs to figure out what hie is now, and at 22/23 he should have an idea.

Kevin Moran is a massive enigma, blessed with ability, must have something about him as he is Captain????. Does some wonderfull things, and then goes away out of games untill there over , does it at centre back, does it in midfield and now does it at wing forward, anyone who can score a point like that V kilkenny , two years ago, is not short of good stuff, but last year and even sat night , had a few good moments and then keyzer soze, i don't know is it a positioning thing, or is a switch off thing or does he believe he has enough done, but he just goes out of games, and it always seems to co-incide with Waterford doing the same, Sat night Waterford flying, he was out around the middle taking puck outs at pace, delivering good ball, working hard, Where did he go for the Second half, it happens all the time, now i'm not at all saying its his fault we drew the game, but it happens too often, needs to get that consistancy back that he had two years ago, when in my opinion he was one of the top three hurlers in Ireland.

Plus and this happens waterford alot, whilst we have a wonderfully talented half back line and i hope phillip only has a dead leg, we ship too many scores at their ease at times from this line, Saturday night was a prime example, We used to talk about john Gardiner of Cork like this, What a talent, but we'll win the game from his wing, Phillip for me is the more compact of the three as of now, in the sence he tries to stop his man winning ball / hurling first, whilst i think Austin gleeson and tadgh are just immence, can't have 6-7-8-9, points pick off them every game, now you can talk about the amount of ball they hurl and all that unbelievable ability all day, but defenders defend, and if they have something about them they pick a point and if they are top class[like the two boys are, they play the best ball they can in that point in time,all the time], they are currently playing with no fear, but with either no cover, or have not determined yet, that they are there to defend, this is a critism you could throw at waterford at any time, We seem to have found guys that had it though, like noel connors, i think the two fives have it, i think Barry coughlan has it[but the jury's out about him full back, he has all the tool's, but we'll see], and Brick has it, its a defenders mentality [J.J. Delaney had it in buckets], we need to win games and won't do it, by doing the extrordinary things well, and the simple things badly.
Can't wait for a fully fit darragh fives to be back, i'd put him centre back and let Austin and tadgh either side, if he'fully fit, two boys will learn from him as i think he's top top quality but needs a run, i'd have Phillip out in the middle of the field, because he give enough cover to the half back line and is a good hurler, i'd have brick with him, and i'd leave moran on the wing, as i think defencivly he switches off.

Whilst it was a good point at the end, it was a game we should have got two, lost our shape and lost a bit of bite , but showed good composure to come back and draw, i think Paudie Pender is a quality hurler , if you could inject a bit of fire in him[and it should be there], you would have a hurler to match any, i saw him hurling v kilkenny below in nolan park , it was his first start, and jesus he was class, but he never looks in a hurry, he has hurled consistantly well for UCC, Now for two Years and has held down centre back for most of that time, and that signals he has something, but if he could up the intensity he'd be top top class, and you could play him anywhere he is very versatile in my opinion, would be another Starter if this happened,
I would have said Pre game i was worried , but i thought the players played for the management and for themselves on Saturday night , i though the spirit was good, alot better than at any time last year, all the noise coming from the camp, is so much better than at any time last year[bar the first few weeks], A fit stephen bennett[ top top top quality], would be the makings of this side , his younger brother is another i'd have good time for, i think for the first time in two years fairly happy with the spirit of Waterford, so i'd give it a B-, but i think alot of what we have been told looks to have an End product, if guys can stay fit, here's a prediction with a bit of luck, belief and injury progress, we won't be too far away to win this division, and we'll be in a good position come june/July,C'mon Waterford, Ps i Liked what Derek said about Pride too, that 's the stuff build a bit of seige Kilkenny and Clare have been at it with years.

Slobbery

Gleeson and de burca have so much potential. Both are going to be huge players for us. For their age, the way they can play, born leaders and both can be outstanding centre backs - whichever one gets the nod there

sizing europe

Slobbery wrote: »

Gleeson and de burca have so much potential. Both are going to be huge players for us. For their age, the way they can play, born leaders and both can be outstanding centre backs - whichever one gets the nod there

Dont think either of them should get the nod to play centre back to be honest. Both outstanding talents with oodles of hurling yes, does that mean they should play centre back? NO in my opinion, I find people and especially in waterford from my experiences are obsessed with who plays at no 6!? its just 1 position on the field at the end of the day and should have no reflection on your ability whether you play at no 5, no 6, 7, 8, or 9.
I think De Burca should play at no5 , to the right of the centre back, as for gleeson I am not sure, he has so much raw ability its just unreal, maybe a roaming centre forward role might suit him but who knows where he will end up.

Just because you have unreal raw hurling ability does not mean you should play centre back. NO WAY! Anyone who has played the game will tell you, at wing back you actually end up hurling more ball than at centre back the majority of the time. If you had a sort of anchor type hurler who has good defensive qualities in a centre back then that is a better type for overall success. Dara Fives would be a good option in that sense. Look back at the successful teams of the last era and their respective half back lines.
The great Kilkenny teams -
Tommy Walsh (Unreal talent) Hogan (a stopper) Delaney ( Unreal abilty like Walsh)
Great Cork teams - Sean og (Good defensivley but hurling ability top ) Curran ( always held centre aswell as being defensively sound) Gardiner (Top class hurler)

Basically my point is not to pigeon hole players into being a no6. In my opinon we are too obsessed with the idea of a swash buckling top class hurler at centre back, like i said the lads either side at no5 and no7 often hurl more ball and have more affect on the forward play of the team by hurling ball into the forwards.

3ships

Listening to Derek McGrath on WLR he said he's hopeful Philip Mahony will be ok that got a bang on the knee and its not a twist or strain. He also talked of the Fitzgibbon midweek games and that team selection will depend on that.

That interview was recorded before this IT Carlow situation which pushes College fixtures back to Thursday. So that puts the WIT lads under pressure.

Again Dara Fives may be back and there is 2 players that impressed me so far in pre season Breathnach and Harney that can come into it as well

The blue blaa

3ships wrote: »

Listening to Derek McGrath on WLR he said he's hopeful Philip Mahony will be ok that got a bang on the knee and its not a twist or strain. He also talked of the Fitzgibbon midweek games and that team selection will depend on that.

That interview was recorded before this IT Carlow situation which pushes College fixtures back to Thursday. So that puts the WIT lads under pressure.

Again Dara Fives may be back and there is 2 players that impressed me so far in pre season Breathnach and Harney that can come into it as well

You'd think the GAA by now in 2015 and all their so called interest in player welfare and preventing player burnout/injuries would sit down an plan the league around the fitzgibbon Cup.

conditioned games

WIT now away to LIT instead of at home to DIT

Slobbery

sizing europe wrote: »

Dont think either of them should get the nod to play centre back to be honest. Both outstanding talents with oodles of hurling yes, does that mean they should play centre back? NO in my opinion, I find people and especially in waterford from my experiences are obsessed with who plays at no 6!? its just 1 position on the field at the end of the day and should have no reflection on your ability whether you play at no 5, no 6, 7, 8, or 9.
I think De Burca should play at no5 , to the right of the centre back, as for gleeson I am not sure, he has so much raw ability its just unreal, maybe a roaming centre forward role might suit him but who knows where he will end up.

Just because you have unreal raw hurling ability does not mean you should play centre back. NO WAY! Anyone who has played the game will tell you, at wing back you actually end up hurling more ball than at centre back the majority of the time. If you had a sort of anchor type hurler who has good defensive qualities in a centre back then that is a better type for overall success. Dara Fives would be a good option in that sense. Look back at the successful teams of the last era and their respective half back lines.
The great Kilkenny teams -
Tommy Walsh (Unreal talent) Hogan (a stopper) Delaney ( Unreal abilty like Walsh)
Great Cork teams - Sean og (Good defensivley but hurling ability top ) Curran ( always held centre aswell as being defensively sound) Gardiner (Top class hurler)

Basically my point is not to pigeon hole players into being a no6. In my opinon we are too obsessed with the idea of a swash buckling top class hurler at centre back, like i said the lads either side at no5 and no7 often hurl more ball and have more affect on the forward play of the team by hurling ball into the forwards.

I did play the game too by the way and my opinion is that centre back is the most important position on the pitch.

My preference would be a stylish dominant centre back in the ilk of fergal Hartley or Ken McGrath. Give me that any day, I guess a waterford mans obsession with the position comes from seeing Rolls Royce of players like this dominating the centre, mopping up ball, unreal catchers of the ball.. Many the time they rose the hair on the back of my neck.... I watched gleeson at minor and I saw that quality in him, that class, that style (however I do feel he sometimes gets caught up in position and is a bit too casual at the moment to be centre back but he is young).

I would also put Ronan Curran and Brian Corcoran in the mould of stylish centre backs, you are selling curran short, his form may have dipped later in his career but early on he was a super player - totally top class - the reason gardiner wasn't a centre back is because Curran was better.

Ya the number 6 is precious in my eyes...

Many a time I watched fergal Hartley playing club hurling in awe really, you could watch him all day, he was a beautiful hurler

Mountainlad

Slobbery wrote: »

I did play the game too by the way and my opinion is that centre back is the most important position on the pitch.

My preference would be a stylish dominant centre back in the ilk of fergal Hartley or Ken McGrath. Give me that any day, I guess a waterford mans obsession with the position comes from seeing Rolls Royce of players like this dominating the centre, mopping up ball, unreal catchers of the ball.. Many the time they rose the hair on the back of my neck.... I watched gleeson at minor and I saw that quality in him, that class, that style (however I do feel he sometimes gets caught up in position and is a bit too casual at the moment to be centre back but he is young).

I would also put Ronan Curran and Brian Corcoran in the mould of stylish centre backs, you are selling curran short, his form may have dipped later in his career but early on he was a super player - totally top class - the reason gardiner wasn't a centre back is because Curran was better.

Ya the number 6 is precious in my eyes...

Many a time I watched fergal Hartley playing club hurling in awe really, you could watch him all day, he was a beautiful hurler

And even well into his 30s, was frequently the best player on the pitch. Agree on Curran too, was a terrific center back at his peak, definitely better than Brian Hogan who was a fine hurler all the same.


The comment made about Darragh Fives being more of a stopper is crazy too, if fit he's probably the best hurler we have. Wouldn't have him center back long term either, though he's a few years older than those two lads which might be a help against physical center forwards.

But overall, I wasn't that taken by his performances at center back as a minor compared to corner back for the Seniors, and then games where he's been fit since then at wing back (Galway in the league 2013, unreal performance) and midfield (Kilkenny in 2013 probably the glaring example).

PTH2009

Hopefully having the wit lads playing on Thursday won't lose us the match against Laois because they will be all fecked and as McGrath put it on the radio Laois are ahead of us at the moment

Antrim showed there no pushovers almost beating Wexford, Offaly had a good win vs Laois

One alarming thing is that Laois scored 23 points last sat while we scored 22.

Looking forward to the game and hopefully we will be talking about a Waterford victory next week

Mountainlad

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hopefully having the wit lads playing on Thursday won't lose us the match against Laois because they will be all fecked and as McGrath put it on the radio Laois are ahead of us at the moment

Antrim showed there no pushovers almost beating Wexford, Offaly had a good win vs Laois

One alarming thing is that Laois scored 23 points last sat while we scored 22.

Looking forward to the game and hopefully we will be talking about a Waterford victory next week

You're a troll, admit it.

PTH2009

Mountainlad wrote: »

You're a troll, admit it.

No I'm not just a proud Waterford man that worries. I hope we do well next sat but strange things can happen

3ships

One of the positives of Waterford Hurling is the options at Center Back

Brick ...the examiners best CB last 5 years
Gleeson ..same article for the next 5 years

Bourke, Dara Fives, maybe Mahony in between and Moran who a couple of years ago I thought would be massive in that position by now

not a bad 6 for no. 6

culbaire

Mountainlad wrote: »

You're a troll, admit it.

You are quite good a dishing out insults. The poster is entitled to make his/her point whether you like it or not.

Mountainlad

culbaire wrote: »

You are quite good a dishing out insults. The poster is entitled to make his/her point whether you like it or not.

There's only so negative anyone can be. Nobody in the Country thinks we are behind Laois, I'd be interested to hear what he thought he heard Derek McGrath on WLR.

3ships

McGrath said something like .. some of the Laois lads would be ahead of some of our lads in terms of strength and conditioning and that Laois will feel they let themselves down against us last year and also that there isn't much between any of the 1b teams

He may have also said "the reality is..." before all those points

deiseach

Slobbery wrote: »

Ya the number 6 is precious in my eyes...

Many a time I watched fergal Hartley playing club hurling in awe really, you could watch him all day, he was a beautiful hurler

It's as close as you can get to a quarterback or outhalf position as you are going to get in hurling. No matter how grim things got for Waterford hurling - and boy, they got grim - the thought that the universally-acknowledged greatest player in the position came from Waterford made it feel like we still mattered.

ovalu

I'd love to see a half back line of Darragh Fives, Gleeson and Shane Roche, along with a midfield of De Burca and Shane Bennett, I think it would be swashbuckling and fearless, I'd bring Brick back to no 3 to mind the house and have Moran at 11 to win a bit of ball, I can't see Brick becoming a forward at this stage of his career

sizing europe

ovalu wrote: »

I'd love to see a half back line of Darragh Fives, Gleeson and Shane Roche, along with a midfield of De Burca and Shane Bennett, I think it would be swashbuckling and fearless, I'd bring Brick back to no 3 to mind the house and have Moran at 11 to win a bit of ball, I can't see Brick becoming a forward at this stage of his career

too much nonsense in one post to even comment on what you have said there..jesus

sizing europe

ovalu wrote: »

I'd love to see a half back line of Darragh Fives, Gleeson and Shane Roche, along with a midfield of De Burca and Shane Bennett, I think it would be swashbuckling and fearless, I'd bring Brick back to no 3 to mind the house and have Moran at 11 to win a bit of ball, I can't see Brick becoming a forward at this stage of his career

too much nonsense in one post to even comment on what you have said there..jesus sum fellas :O

Slobbery

deiseach wrote: »

It's as close as you can get to a quarterback or outhalf position as you are going to get in hurling. No matter how grim things got for Waterford hurling - and boy, they got grim - the thought that the universally-acknowledged greatest player in the position came from Waterford made it feel like we still mattered.

as you say John Keane was placed there on the team on the millennium... When you think of all the centre backs from the more successful counties he was acknowledged as better than... Coming from an unsuccessful county it shows what an incredible player he must of been.

Slobbery

Mountainlad wrote: »

And even well into his 30s, was frequently the best player on the pitch. Agree on Curran too, was a terrific center back at his peak, definitely better than Brian Hogan who was a fine hurler all the same.


The comment made about Darragh Fives being more of a stopper is crazy too, if fit he's probably the best hurler we have. Wouldn't have him center back long term either, though he's a few years older than those two lads which might be a help against physical center forwards.

But overall, I wasn't that taken by his performances at center back as a minor compared to corner back for the Seniors, and then games where he's been fit since then at wing back (Galway in the league 2013, unreal performance) and midfield (Kilkenny in 2013 probably the glaring example).

Hartley was from another planet, watching the club championship you saw how good he really was right up until the day he gave up... He made guys look like U12s he had some hand on him.

I remember when ballygunnar played newtownshandrum in the Munster final he was superb that day, I loved watching him play I would watch him all day and never get tired of it

Ropaire

I don't get the fascination with having an amazing half back line if the rest of the team isnt up to scratch. We're sorted for half backs, we have been for a decade and more but we're short ball winning and scoring forwards. I'd share the wealth across the field cos some of these lads are needed elsewhere.

Slobbery

Ropaire wrote: »

I don't get the fascination with having an amazing half back line if the rest of the team isnt up to scratch. We're sorted for half backs, we have been for a decade and more but we're short ball winning and scoring forwards. I'd share the wealth across the field cos some of these lads are needed elsewhere.

The half back line is you base, it needs to be the strongest line of the field.

Doesn't matter who you have in the forwards if your half back line are getting beaten and are conceding scores. Also if your half back line is not winning the ball there is no one to feed the ball into the forwards.

Ropaire

Slobbery wrote: »

The half back line is you base, it needs to be the strongest line of the field.

Doesn't matter who you have in the forwards if your half back line are getting beaten and are conceding scores. Also if your half back line is not winning the ball there is no one to feed the ball into the forwards.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but last year we had a solid half back line who hurled an unreal amount of ball that came straight back at them cos ball wasn't sticking further up the pitch. You can't win a hurling match 1-0!

deiseach

I remember Ballygunner were playing Sarsfields in the Munster championship back in the winter of 1997. I hadn't been to many matches in the previous decade so Teddy McCarthy, while well past his prime, was a more (in)famous figure than anyone on Ballygunner's team, Under-21 medals notwithstanding. Anyone, Hartley was cleaning up and Teddy was sent in to show the whelp who was boss. High ball comes in, Teddy charges at it like a mad thing, and Hartley rises with all the effort you might use pick up the tv remote to pluck the ball from his grasp and clears with aplomb. I was sitting in the stand yahooing away and thinking "now THAT'S what I've been looking for all these years!"

And it only got better.

cul beag

I would say there's a few fellas sampling the amber nectar over the last few hours because there's some raving on here!!

stumblingblock

ovalu wrote: »

I'd love to see a half back line of Darragh Fives, Gleeson and Shane Roche, along with a midfield of De Burca and Shane Bennett, I think it would be swashbuckling and fearless, I'd bring Brick back to no 3 to mind the house and have Moran at 11 to win a bit of ball, I can't see Brick becoming a forward at this stage of his career

Shane Roche of shamrocks? Really? Saw him for ucc recently at wing back didn't go too great. Dropped the next game for paudie Prendergast who was outstanding. Roche is well down the pecking order yet imo.

Slobbery

deiseach wrote: »

I remember Ballygunner were playing Sarsfields in the Munster championship back in the winter of 1997. I hadn't been to many matches in the previous decade so Teddy McCarthy, while well past his prime, was a more (in)famous figure than anyone on Ballygunner's team, Under-21 medals notwithstanding. Anyone, Hartley was cleaning up and Teddy was sent in to show the whelp who was boss. High ball comes in, Teddy charges at it like a mad thing, and Hartley rises with all the effort you might use pick up the tv remote to pluck the ball from his grasp and clears with aplomb. I was sitting in the stand yahooing away and thinking "now THAT'S what I've been looking for all these years!"

And it only got better.

That was a time when no waterford team was expected to beat a Cork one.
Albeit SARS were not the cork champions as a divisional team had one that year and they were the club that progressed the furthest so contested the Munster club...
That result made people sit up and take notice and was on the eve of our re emergence on the inter county scene.
That ballygunnar team was the best club side from waterford I have seen